What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Thanks Michigan for trying to screw us over!

Mengsk

Active member
bigtacofarmer outside of this thread I dunno if we agree on everything but you are right in what you are saying here. I used to grow, and smoke, years ago. Have not been smoking in recent years. Thought legalization was or is a good thing. I mean freedom, I don't mean the law or prop 64. Now I realize that folks like you are way ahead of the curve. You were right all along. People don't want to listen, even growers and smokers argue about it, so the general public isn't going to put up much of a fight most likely. That is big weed's view on it. The same as big pharma and police and the bank who forecloses on people's homes. But for people at the slow end of the uptake it might sound like paranoia or propaganda, they aren't ready or willing to hear it or to listen. This doesn't mean that I am in some frantic state. In fact I am happy that I can grow without fear of going to jail now. But it is not good for people so much as a money grab meaning a race which will end up hurting many of us I feel.
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
The boogie man is out to get us again...



Licensing is set at a max of 5,000 per. That doesn't seem unfair... What does a liquor license go for nowadays? BTW, you can't profit from any alcoholic beverage made at home.



[sarcasm]I want to grow tomatoes in my 30x40 back yard garden in Oakland county and make 250,000 a year... I don't see why anyone would have an issue with that...[/sarcasm]


Free or 50 dollar license... You are aware a combo tag is more than that just to hunt and fish in the state of Michigan...



Start a business, ride someone else's coat tails or GTFO. Quit Whining, this isn't Washington or California.
 

Amynamous

Active member
Per the article: “The chances of passing the changes to the approved ballot proposals, however, are almost impossible in this lame-duck session. Because the two proposals were passed by voters, the Legislature needs to muster a supermajority — a three-quarters vote — in both the House of Representatives and Senate. Republicans hold a 27-11 supermajority in the Senate, but only a 63-47 edge in the House.

Democrats are unlikely to support any changes to the laws and even some Republicans aren’t on board with the proposals.

“I don’t believe in home growing (marijuana) for sale, but I don’t object to growing for personal use,” said Sen. Rick Jones, R-Grand Ledge.

The marijuana legalization law, which goes into effect on Dec. 6, prohibits home growers from selling their products, although they can give away the pot.“

Nothing has happened to actually change the law. You got what you voted for. Relax and be happy. Michigonians are far better off than they were a month ago.

On a side note,....if Anyone, anywhere, ever thinks thinks that legalization will allow them to grow and sell like they have in the past, they are sadly mistaken. That will never happen. Be happy that you can grow for your personal use, and that you can walk into a store, and be able to select from dozens of strains, edibles, cartridges, etc, etc.
 
Last edited:

Mengsk

Active member
growingcrazy I don't have to pay you or anyone else a thing. You put me on the spot, I didn't say I want to grow tomatoes in my backyard and start selling them. But in reality it is not any different. Your argument is not a good one. Because if my home was 5 acres 500 miles from Oakland then it would be a farm. And if I had to pay the government $50 or $500 or $50,000 to farm my property it is 100% the same exact thing. It is not up to you or anyone else whether there is a problem with what I grow on my property. Your idea is fundamentally flawed that I am not entitled to a right the same rights as everyone else. It sounds like you have a problem with people growing what they want where they live. I do not have a problem with every single person in Oakland and Michigan and everywhere else growing as much cannabis as they can possibly fit in their yard. I am not the slightest bit worried about danger or reduced cost if that happens. People don't grow tobacco in their yard and nobody expects anyone to buy a tax stamp for growing cucumbers or peppers. If I only have 0.1 acre or 10,000 acres the rights are the same. There is a common sense factor here meaning I am not aggressive or one might say brave or foolish enough to risk a million dollar grow in my backyard. Because it could invite criminal elements or the law simply for its value. Now why would anyone have a problem with that, but it is ok if you buy a license and grow acres of the stuff. How is that any better or any more right than growing it in a back yard. It isn't really an argument so much as another fee, another tax racket from the government. If one group holds all the licenses that is nearly the same as removing all licenses or not having any. Except it is 100% ownership of the dispensaries and entire market for the group of license holders. Crooked, corrupt, the definition people love to say you are a whining cry baby with no work ethic if you call out. The other side of whining cry baby about crooked politicians is the brute force police, or people who act via physical means removal, fines, violence, jail etc. There is some middle ground, some police and licensed growers are good. But when all of these new rules and money are mixed the water is poisoned or bloodied. My issue is twofold. My issue is not my own greed because I want to grow and sell my own. The issue is that the supply is of a poor quality, and it is of a high cost, to the point of being inaccessible, and all other supply sources are being suppressed systematically. You see an advertised price of $25-35 an 1/8 at the corner store and get all excited. But the back end to that supply is severely controlled. That is the same exact thing as the black market where you are forced to buy inferior product at an inflated cost from a "bad guy." Maybe my alarmist concerns are exaggerated or unfounded. Maybe the market will quickly even out or stabilize, maybe there are enough mega-grows already or maybe more micro-grows will emerge. Growing food or vegetables or cannabis is not easy. Nobody ever made out like a bandit $250k in a year not working for it. That doesn't even make any sense. Because the market is controlled by business at this point and nickel bags of commercial weed is the only way that it is allowed to be sold. You are giving me a hard time about a license but there is your answer in December 2018 dry dusty nickle bags cost $20 with tax or 400% roughly with no alternative unless you have a friend. Raising premium weed for $200-$500 a pound is a lot harder work and a lot better product than what dispensaries are selling now. But that doesn't matter, all the cards are stacked for mega-grows. I am not or have not been a farmer, not a small or family or large farmer. So it's not like I can speak from experience. But this is the same thing as the plight of the farmer. The sole person in society who burdens the most work, or in this case physically literally provides for everyone else, gets no respect and people only demand more from them. Nobody else has weed to smoke without growers, nobody has food without farmers. The fact is and always has been that every single person who wants a penny or a crumb who is not a grower is another useless middle person in line with their hand out. Grow or get out of the way. Charging someone to grow is the same as not growing is the same as being in the way is the same as being part of the problem. But somehow it is ok to charge farmers to grow produce. Now the idea of a person supplying your food and consumables that you require to live is being replaced with a company or machine. Don't worry if there is no farmer, this factory and its employees will provide all your produce and food. This doesn't even get into farm subsidies. Still the same place, the same country, where one farmer is paid to not use their land, another person is expected to hand over what may be their entire income ahead of time in taxes. It isn't legal. There's only so much pot or consumers to go around, domestically if states keep issuing licenses the pot is obviously intended for out of state markets which is only going to take so many years to circle around or copycat. Voting is one thing but 25/50 states growing cannabis and the feds calling for research on thousands of acres of hemp is more of a de facto situation with cannabis.
 
Last edited:

Mengsk

Active member
It is like a home owner's association in my opinion, little else. If you say that you don't want me to grow at my place what is your reason? When you say I should not be able to or I should pay for a license what is your reasoning behind that? I am way on the other coast but I am supportive of some of it. Lab testing for mold and the ability to sell to a network those are both positives. Plainly and simply put however it costs too much now (way too many administrators) and the product isn't really justified it is based on the assumption of take it or leave it you have no other choice legally.

It would be callous of me to say it's jealously or an attack. Sure a list of reasons might appear but my point of view remains the same. Why keep someone down, why stifle them, why worry yourself with someone else's affairs? You don't see me arguing for you to pay more taxes. Is there a rule for absence of evidence for interfering negatively? In other words does the home owner's association representative the one complaining, do they ever say the only reason they complain is because they are uptight and/or have nothing better to do than harass people for the sake of their perceived real estate value? Draw a little cartoon of a person growing all the food. Then draw a person standing up next to them with a stick demanding money, from the person growing the food they eat. See where this is going? That's part of my contention here - I'm not necessarily afraid that I am useless, but a truly sustainable producer farmer grower doesn't actually need any inputs. Personal human connections or business relationships sure that is part of the human world. But a real organic grower doesn't buy anything from the grow store, or even from the grocery store, or from the gas station. Now taxes or licensing fees become a majority of any planned expense. In your whole budget for the year, besides food and water, the only thing that costs any money is paying taxes or paying for a license. If your costs go down it seems like we have another set of hands that magically appears to take whatever money you think you are saving.

The way it sounds rationalized above is making the barriers to entry far worse. For example no you can't do it at home, this has to be 'zoned' or 'agricultural.' So in other words first step you must move away from your home, leave your place of residence. Then you must have enough money to buy property large and far away enough to get the proper zoning permits. Now you've left your home and/or have to be rich and/or have to commit to a non-residential mortgage loan in order to put your hat in the ring. This is all hoops to jump through. Before you are able to even attempt growing for a living, test your mettle or see if you or the land have what it takes to produce. Once you commit like that you don't really have a choice or freedom you are more at the mercy of what you signed up for at that point and may need to stay just to keep it going etc. People see cannabis as a big money boom and just about nobody is going to listen to advice like this but you should probably be able to farm vegetables profitably in order to survive as a cannabis producer. Meaning treat it the same, if you cannot sell eggplant or tomatoes at market and make a profit doing what you're doing, then you should not be doing it. A $10k permit and $100k greenhouse does not fit into this model financially. It's too far removed to be logical. I don't have to actually do it to prove it but if I grew a bunch of cannabis similar to many others here and reported my financial cost to the dispensary/distributor I'm pretty sure it would be favourable to what they're seeing. Scale wise they might not care, or cost wise it might work out better to have a ten acre supplier, I don't know the behind the scenes details of that. If they did point of purchase safety testing and accepted product from anyone the market might fall flat on its face at least until supply and demand catch back up. Before they'd accept product from people off the street like dealers with storefronts. Now it has to be from generally very large scale farms that use airline peanut bagging machines. It's all sealed like the rest of the stuff you buy and they don't open jars or handle buds at dispensaries just hand out sealed baggies. Some bud is legit but you're paying $75+ an 1/8 at that point if you have money to burn. Los Angeles is the place for hype surrounding expensive weed so I have another reason why OG is talked about so much. This isn't meant as a snarky remark but since the west passed laws earlier maybe you will be lucky enough to receive some OR, WA, and CA weed at the shops soon :)
 
Last edited:

Mengsk

Active member
The internet is a strange place I'll tell ya. I just looked at your albums growingcrazy and you have plants outside this year, almost like mine yours are better actually. We are both pot heads with plants in the back yard and you're telling me to stop whining GTFO start a business, lol:tiphat: Making sarcastic comments about me not affording or not wanting to pay or being allowed to grow in the suburbs and you live on an actual farm. Should be no problem getting a license for you if you wanted one haha. It's easy to get off topic. Different cultures and climates around and this is an international forum so good to remember we come from many places and backgrounds when discussing our favourite plant I think.

I have all kinds of business ideas just have to stop being lazy first.
 
Last edited:

Shmavis

Being-in-the-world
I would not expect microbusiness to be allowed from home. But it is my hope that the do not make it next to impossible. I personally only halfway expect them to keep that part of the law. It was barely a paragraph at the end.

With honey you need a USDA licence after you sell more than $50,000 per year. With beer and wine you can start clubs and have memberships and not until you produce a certain amount is special permits needed. Almost every town has a farmers market.

All the complications and regulations and super expensive permits are a means of funneling the money where they want it.

Your arguement confuses me. I get that Im a bit over the top about it. Im angry. But that does not change that everyone is slowly getting fucked out of the same plant some of us have been caring for for alot of years.

If people want a highly government regulated product I recommend seeing what the pharmacy has. (Just kidding that shit can kill you)

It’s cool. You’re clearly upset. That’s what confuses me. (Take a deep breath :huggg:)

What is there to be so upset about? You feel you deserve, or rather are entitled to, some investment-free business opportunity because you, what, have grown and loved a plant for many years? I am still confused as to where you’re coming from... You want to grow and make a living off of it, within a legal framework, right? The (minuscule) possibility of home grows being banned has nothing whatsoever to do with your aspirations of making money off the plant. (Which, for what it’s worth, is the antithesis of many of us who’ve also grown and loved the plant for many years.) You’re talking apples when you really should be talking oranges. The reason home grows are legal so soon after the vote is because they are not subject to being regulated. Need proof? Start trying to sell your weed publicly on the 6th...All the business shit, which you’re interested in, like opening up a storefront, comes later.

Growingcrazy’s mention of a liquor license is to the point since the subtitle of the proposal was: Ballot Subtitle: Coalition to regulate marijuana like alcohol (LOL)

And none of those other arguments fly. Do you think vendors at Farmers’ Markets don’t pay fees to be there? And this isn’t honey. And we’re not talking about memberships. Do you think your local microbrewery doesn’t pay to have a business license, in addition to paying for a liquor license? Pay to play. How it is and how it will be. Denounce the capitalist machine all you want, but thems the rules. And anyone who can’t pony up 5K for a license to operate a business obviously isn’t cut out to be an entrepreneur.

As a fellow Michigander, I sincerely wish you luck and want to see you succeed. Just don’t let yourself stand in your own way. Look to what it relevant to achieve your goals, and stay positive!
 

bigtacofarmer

Well-known member
Veteran
Gonna be so many seeds in that commercial weed. Have not found russet mite larvae for sale yet but I would guess I just need to ask the right grower for a clone.


Im sure the people with big farms will have blast (I mean easy time) figuring out what keeps happening.


Anyone know how many seeds a van load of male hemp can make while driving around the farm? I bet its whole bunch.
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
microbusiness will be very difficult to obtain, no fuckin way they will allow that in any residential zoned area, your dreaming. imagine a craft brewing facility with a tasting room in the front, thats what your looking at and more with craft cannabis. you need a building, permit, city approval, and a crew of people, its still seed to sale and you need to crank every month with the electric bill and payroll youll rack up. it will require a lot of hardwork and dedication to get everything in order, which 5% maybe less of all the MI growers will have. thats the truth.

its business big taco, go get some horchata and chill amigo.

fear ruins everything, shmavis is right, your in your own way lol


As simply put as possible. THanks Waxy.


All I am hearing from others is ME ME ME.


If you have property that is zoned Ag or Commercial, you have a chance to get a license and build a business. If you live in the city on property not eligible for a business... then enjoy your 12 plants grown for free. The other option is to move...like a real business owner.


Hippies who talk like they are bettering humanity and then continue to post thoughts about how they can harm anyone... whether big business or mom and pop on the corner... I love hypocrites.


Mengsk... I bought a farm so I could do this legitimately multiple years ago. I left my great paying job to come bust my ass in the dirt because I love Cannabis. I don't love money. Whine on the internet or bust your ass in real life. I chose the second option 6-7 years ago and have been busting my ass since.



If you think I have a problem with people complain that they can't make a profit at home while not contributing to society in any way... well your right. You don't want to pay taxes on cannabis...then don't use our roads, schools or infrastructures.


The best part of all this... I am just like mengsk and BTF except I don't choose to complain, I choose to be the thorn in our governments ass pushing them to let me, the little guy, fight for what we want.


Both of you need to open your eyes. Anyone that wants to grow for themselves can do it free... anyone that wants to operate a business pays the fees. The END.
 
Last edited:

beta

Active member
Veteran
You don't hate legalization, you hate capitalism. This is the inevitable result of capitalism - Corporate power uber alles.
 

bigtacofarmer

Well-known member
Veteran
As simply put as possible. THanks Waxy.


All I am hearing from others is ME ME ME.


If you have property that is zoned Ag or Commercial, you have a chance to get a license and build a business. If you live in the city on property not eligible for a business... then enjoy your 12 plants grown for free. The other option is to move...like a real business owner.


Hippies who talk like they are bettering humanity and then continue to post thoughts about how they can harm anyone... whether big business or mom and pop on the corner... I love hypocrites.


Mengsk... I bought a farm so I could do this legitimately multiple years ago. I left my great paying job to come bust my ass in the dirt because I love Cannabis. I don't love money. Whine on the internet or bust your ass in real life. I chose the second option 6-7 years ago and have been busting my ass since.



If you think I have a problem with people complain that they can't make a profit at home while not contributing to society in any way... well your right. You don't want to pay taxes on cannabis...then don't use our roads, schools or infrastructures.


The best part of all this... I am just like mengsk and BTF except I don't choose to complain, I choose to be the thorn in our governments ass pushing them to let me, the little guy, fight for what we want.


Both of you need to open your eyes. Anyone that wants to grow for themselves can do it free... anyone that wants to operate a business pays the fees. The END.


I would love to be able to pay taxes and pay a reasonable fee for the right to grow and sell.

I do not think it should be complicated. Does your product test free of poison? Is your grow safe (electric, plumbing, drainage)? And not selling to minors.

I do not see any reason to pretend they invented a new plant. It has been grown safely for 1000s of years. So other than simple obvious things that apply to any businesses. They should leave ot alone.

As far as my threats. I have no interest in screwing up anyone's grow. Until it becomes clear who is allowed to profit off the same plant someone else cannot.

I understand home grows will probably not be given licences. I think its stupid. Safe grown herb is safe grown herb.

I also agree. Its just competition. He who can produce the most sets the low end of the price and who grows the best sets the high end of the prices. It is clear coorperate grows understand this instead of competing fairly they continue to adjust the competion out of business with rules.

The problem is this plant has been grown, breed and then legalized by nice people (pacifists) and now with legalization the money worshipping crowd is trying to take over. These are they only ones that I intend to fuck with.
 

bigtacofarmer

Well-known member
Veteran
Hippies who talk like they are bettering humanity and then continue to post thoughts about how they can harm anyone... whether big business or mom and pop on the corner... I love hypocrites.

The hippys I know think running the coorerate whores out of business is helping! Duh

Also. And dummy can see. If you have several small local businesses paying taxes.. And all of there local employees paying taxes and spending money in the community. That is better for the community instead of a huge warehouse that employed a few people and most of the profits go to shareholders that likely never spend a dime in the community. Just my opinion but I would rather see tons of small ops band together and run coorperate weed out of our state for good.

Seems Michigan would get this after all the other industries that have abandoned the state.
 

bigtacofarmer

Well-known member
Veteran


This is my quick math. The demand should be about the same. Wether 10 legal stores are permitted or 10000 legal stores are permitted. The amount of weed that has the potential to be sold and taxed is about the same. So I think that if all that product was sold by the 10000 small stores the benefits would be huge. All of the paycheck and taxes would stay in the local community. And in turn new small businesses also have more money in the local economy.
If the same amount of sales go to 10 large coorperate grows all the money goes to their employees and does not have the reach. Not to mention they would not be nearly the amount of small towns collecting taxes off several local businesses. It would be the one business and it would usually only benefit a small group of people or shareholders.

I do not understand how anyone could feel different? Unless your a shareholder or can afford to pay pay pay.
 

growingcrazy

Well-known member
This is my quick math. The demand should be about the same. Wether 10 legal stores are permitted or 10000 legal stores are permitted. The amount of weed that has the potential to be sold and taxed is about the same. So I think that if all that product was sold by the 10000 small stores the benefits would be huge. All of the paycheck and taxes would stay in the local community. And in turn new small businesses also have more money in the local economy.
If the same amount of sales go to 10 large coorperate grows all the money goes to their employees and does not have the reach. Not to mention they would not be nearly the amount of small towns collecting taxes off several local businesses. It would be the one business and it would usually only benefit a small group of people or shareholders.

I do not understand how anyone could feel different? Unless your a shareholder or can afford to pay pay pay.


I agree completely...



A group of growers and store owners that only work together within the community minded farmers... It already happens with vegetables and value added products where people seek out what they want. Even those small cottage industries have a minimum dollar amount to get into.


The typical homegrower making an income would be comparable to a vegetable grower that has a stand next to the driveway... it just isn't something that is going to fly with cannabis. If it ever does come to that, nobody will be happy about the $2.00 an oz prices they are getting. So nobody would be growing extra anyways...


The next step in comparison would be an on farm store. The on farm store has tons of regulations, even with just meats and produce, let alone cannabis. Plus the required acreage and zoning to do so. None of that works on a residential property.


If you take out the factor of cannabis being so expensive per pound compared to any other plant... cannabis farmers are nothing special.
 

Mengsk

Active member
growingcrazy, you have a point in that we share something in common. Don't worry about me maybe I vent this way to be a thorn in gov't side in my own way. There are some differences. Look at how much focus there is on licenses and money in this thread. My point is that I am not ultimately primarily concerned with money or profit. Only when it comes knocking on your door you feel you have no choice. There are political views woven into this. I grew up in an urban environment. My point isn't that someone should be able to what you define as profit for free. I thought that conservatives were supposed to be for smaller government and less taxes. How is it that I a west coast city dweller am being ridiculed and told to pay more taxes by some people in the midwest? If I am the liberal or socialist, and you are telling me to pay more taxes, what does that make you? Buying a farm is a large commitment and I comment you for the accomplishment. It is a tough concept to digest but I can support your farming rights while not supporting license fees. You have a lot to be proud of, it still does not legitimize the regulatory burden. We're getting caught in a petty argument. I don't think it's reasonable or right for someone poor to invest everything in taxes - so "they can use the roads and infrastructure." Arguments are starting to sound like rhetoric but it doesn't work for everyone someone is going to be at the bottom. At best that's how it's propped up, the bill or the fee or the tax you pay goes to the paycheck of the person sitting at the desk of the office collecting fees, that's it all the way across. You can call it a complaint or a description or an opinion but when a person works to produce (work meaning lift boxes or deliver packages or grow vegetables) each next person wants part of the bounty for your effort. We are referring to government but it seems any organized system you choose all fit the description employer and government same thing. You don't get a paycheck without at least half being removed. Some will say 1/3 and some will write off everything on their taxes but for people living check to check about 1/2 is gone straight off. On the larger scale time wise and bigger picture financially and economically speaking, removing 1/2 of a paycheck puts a strain on part of the population. A higher and higher climbing income is necessary for 1/2 to be immediately disposable. It isn't me, like the actual me and my real job in life. I could be on winter vacation or sabbatical. I'm just illustrating an example. In an industry namely any industry there has to be a canary in the coal mine. Once automation or subsidies or modern engineering efficiency or collusion and low wages take one person's job what is to stop that trend or even from continuing? If your direct immediate competition is $10-15/hr labor while the real estate prices for the whole area climb does that mean that you are becoming less and less valuable as a person? If you are a computer programmer in Michigan today and next week you hear they hired thousands of programmers across the street for $10/hr how would you feel, what would you say, what would you do? Would it be the same thing grow up and pay your taxes get some skills? Once again I do not mean me specifically, just in a theoretical sense if robots and automation start taking care of production then there's got to be a universal basic income or replacement role for compensation somewhere. There's only so much I can do. When I'm concerned about global warming and greenhouse gases from petroleum use, delivering packages or shuttling people around in order to sustain the social security and pension system that my parents' generation rely on and hold us to is a rather sad thought. I think that's why Canada's postal workers went on strike. The labourer or little guy or entry level with no connections or maybe poor immigrant is always told they aren't good enough and need to do more to stay afloat. There comes a time when it's too much and once you're over the tipping point the wage is $0. You see what I mean this system it's a house of cards model or a cliff, not a self sustaining regulating market which will stabilize. At least that is not my economic analysis and not what I support. It could be you or your uncle or my mom or some district attorney or some senator telling me to go out and get a job so I can pay taxes. But in the end it boils down to the same thing inflation of US dollar and people feeling entitled pot calling the kettle black arguing back and forth. Welfare is only welfare if it is wasted. If welfare is invested properly for growth then the economic and societal effect for the lower income bracket is the opposite. I do not discuss politics on purpose mostly but all of our presidents our whole government has always been very conservative right wing oppressive in my view. There's no category for our government it is not a democracy only 2-3 families for the past three decades. Actions regarding wars and scandals are embarrassing for a citizen this isn't something that I can say I represent. I want to say I like the United States I'm proud to be from here like that but it is not the case. Our leaders have been crumbling and now we have a real picture just like foreign dictators where they go around with their plane and give rallies. And I could not support a war monger, there is no room in my field of view to really believe that 50% of people support war monger and 50% support corrupt long time government family. Both corrupt families. And people argue as though they are on one side of those. I don't really argue against or fault people homeless toothless lazy people hard workers overachievers mentally unstable etc. I have issue with the other end of that. If you had a large view of the whole entire money flow, the economic distribution. I bet you would see that whole groups are excluded from the money distribution. No jobs, no welfare, no raises no pensions, there just is no money flow going to certain groups. And that means that the financial system funnels capital to only some groups of people in the United States. This is not an abstract discussion to me, I am talking about my job and $15 an hour not being enough money to live on. And I can see in real time in my face how capital has been funnelled to different groups in society. The name your family name and how your paperwork traces back in government records - this is what determines how much money is in your bank account and what job you have influential connections etc. Work ethic and humanitarianism are actually counted as negatives in this system. You'll be forgotten if you want to help out. If look out for yourself first is taught/shown by example it begets greed and prioritizes splitting or dishonesty over sharing etc. Collaborative would be what do you need help with? Can I help? Sure, or maybe not. Not paying taxes especially to maintain a golf course. It isn't really a petty argument but I can also talk about the money. 10% or more of your profit going to a cause is quite different if it is a church tithe food drive school clothing drive etc. Meaning I can be the largest supporter proponent of taxes assuming a perfect system ehich in an imperfect system may result in me not supporting taxes. However when you pay tax and license you can see where at least some of the money is going. You are literally paying a high dollar amount for a high dollar paper which the sticker is printed on. That is your fiat currency right there, setting the value of cannabis arbitrarily by attaching a USD amount to each and every plant. Even if it is 1c that is still [artificially] raising the price of the plant.

When trying to have a discussion or debate argument what have you it is apparent how different the points of view or preconceived ideas are on different subjects. When people say withhold judgment or no prejudice, here I don't want to use the term polar opposites but the philosophies are on different sides of the spectrum. Don't take it personally, I am not passing judgment, however when I see walls of text in the frame and language used by a couple other posters, I can make a confident guess about the nature of their argument or demeanour without reading through all of the details. It is the same way a real estate lawyer prefers to use a several hundred page document with big words. The language is only to confuse and works in their favour. Not direct and to the point clear for anyone to understand in as few words as possible plain language. /end rant
 
Last edited:

bigtacofarmer

Well-known member
Veteran
I still want to know. How does a large perpetual harvest warehouse guarantee a pesticide and fungicide free product?
 

Mengsk

Active member
If I had to guess from the rest of the ag industry it is that they incorporate a regular spray into their program. Pardon me even for those who use synthetics. Assuming a nursery uses rockwool or drip lines they must know how important it is to set pH and use good nutrient solution. If you look at the standard sales pitch from a fertilizer company you are going to see more than one pesticide recommended from the very beginning and used regularly. I'm not here to argue about modern cannabis regulations I'm just saying historically that is how it has been. Organic is the complete antithesis of conventional. And by that I mean greenhouse, rockwool, salt fertilizer, copper spray, daconil or the next made by bayer, the ones that killed the bees. Those are all part of the same package that every single farmer signs up to use everything on their grow. It's all a package deal. All or none. At least that is traditionally how I have viewed it. We have a point of contention or a sticky spot here I feel. The pro-organic group and pro-synthetic group have a fundamentally conflicting view at some point. Because to acknowledge the harm of a pesticide would be like the ag industry pulling out its own legs. At one end I am of the view that we need to save the groundwater and cheap fertilizer is simultaneously poisoning our land and people and financially displacing me from my home residence. To be clear, yes I am saying that oil drilling and fracking which led to fertilizer which led to cheap massive weed grows is having an economic effect on housing prices and that is an attack on my well being socially personally physically mentally economically. If those oil drillers would stay in their place or learn how to farm sustainably without drilling into the earth then I would not have to worry about poisoning the environment or ruining the economy. It takes a different kind of work to farm land and produce food without fossil fuel usage. The US economy or government more accurately is so heavily involved with oil that it doesn't know where to stop or how to admit any weakness whatsoever. This stems from oil. The wealth or the income gap has people way under the zero line. What percentage are in debt or indentured servants? There is no regulation in a meaningful way, the war monger president said he does not agree with climate change. So we have people in office, they prefer a bat or a club or a scheme to logical transparent plan based in reality to help most citizens. And an aggressive push with fossil fuel that will not stop. Some smart people or minds higher up could be discussing alternative energy and getting away from petroleum. But that isn't the case when you just post negative headlines in the news media only a distraction from discussion or progress no dialogue.

These things always have more than two sides. It complicates things if three parties don't know who to point at you know what I mean? You might have one problem with one person but another with a different, so then friend of a friend or enemy of an enemy. Not in an extreme sense but it gets a bit confusing.

The grow techniques the science and the plants and the people will keep getting better and better. So they will use some systemic expensive fungicide and sterilize the entire room. Automated to give dep harvests every 60 days rain or shine using lights. All uniform kush buds two pounds per plant or tray or table all the same 99%+ with very high potency lots of resin even in low light.

It's hard to separate this from "the evil ag corporation" but it is possible with some effort. Perpetual harvest and automation all add complexity. At the end of the day if all of the cost is shifted to the bottom line, meaning employees treat it like a job and earn the lowest wage which will keep them there, the product is going to come out as the cheapest product available. It can be high tech hydro or old school soil but the same idea holds true if places cheap out to make money then the product will be lowest quality. The business will keep chasing the cheaper route in other words they will buy a new one million dollar meter monitor thing if it means that they do not have to hire an intelligent skilled worker to set or maintain the reservoirs etc. Of course it doesn't actually cost a million if your relative is an engineer at the company or you are both investors in the company that you are using investor money to buy stuff from but that is oddly specific. If one person sets up a legal situation to gain financially at every end/angle, how can both that and a charity be legal? What I mean is at what point does congratulating someone for business savvy become suspicion of corruption? If it is legal for one group to hoard all of the money in the country for their relatives then all the rest of the people are being implicitly told they are not legally allowed to exist. Assigning so much currency and regulatory responsibility (hiring employees) through personal connections instead of objective assessment or unbiased lotteries or metrics may likely be diverging the distribution of wealth in our society. So that views on humanity, social diversity, intelligence, work ethic, and value to mutually beneficial society do not match with income money power influence prestige popular opinion etc. I can't tell if regulation or no regulation sounds better as far as people running around scamming each other whatever they can get away with. If the greenhouse is fancy enough then you hardly even need people other than for all of the really hard demanding and sometimes boring work.
 
Last edited:

growingcrazy

Well-known member
I still want to know. How does a large perpetual harvest warehouse guarantee a pesticide and fungicide free product?


Cleanliness, air flow and proper nutrition go a long way.




My farm is currently in transition for organic certification. I don't use anything that is not NOP certified. I can keep rooms with 0 mold or fungus.


My entire goal for buying a farm was to grow as much organic cannabis as I can and shut down the corporate grows...or at least take away a chunk of their market.


I'm willing to help anyone in this state that has the same idea's.
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top