Reasons why dry sifted resin is the best!

Frenchy Cannoli said:

So you say guys which I will hold you on. What I mean by only lab test can tell us, is that only the complete terpenes profile result of both process can be conclusive. I am looking for scientific facts instead of guesses

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Haha, i'm down to experiment and find out..

95% of what I have smoked the past decade has been sift.. so i've got a very good idea of what to feel for on the tongue..

With the ice wax, even planed out, there is a 'wholeness' to the flavor if you will.. something is just missing.. at least all the stuff i've tried. Sure it's fantastic, but I still seem to think there is way more flavor to sift than iwe.

Obviously personal preference and such comes into play here, but given a blind test I don't think it would be that tough to differentiate.

Let's try haha.

99% of mine for the last 2 and a half decades plus has been dry sift, if you think I can't tell blindfolded, you are kidding your self. I'd bet DSW & EE can also do the same. As for science instead of guesses, to me that is what you are doing, guessing that no one can do it. I understand your desire for science, but maybe that includes not presuming that only a lab test can be conclusive, when I think almost anyone with much dry sift experience can do it easy. One of us is wrong.....
-SamS

Right on!!!!!

Old school hash lovers

WTF is up with the young folks nowadays??
I whip out some beautiful gold hash that I lightly pressed around youngsters, they look at me like I'm demented.
They tell me it's just kief.
Idiots!!! What do you think kief is? It's hash dummy.

OMG tasty, enjoyable, easy to smoke, easy to make, pure, and completely organic yum yum!

I won't even smoke dabs unless I know the grower, and know his weed was clean.
Most young guys are runnin all their sickly, immature, bug infested moldy weed because they're to embarrassed to show their buds.

I have an APE dry sift tumbler and can sift an lb of frosty trim in a few hrs.
I use a jack-puck 2 ton hash press to make 1 oz blocks.
Give them to friends for Christmas and B-days.

To all the old school hash lovers

I'm considered middle age in this game at 32 aren't I? Haha.. not young but not old I guess.. hmm..

Anyways.. I agree that lots of kids are just blasting because their herb isn't up to snuff.. that's a given for a lot of them. Which sucks because I see a ton of these same people claiming their grows are 'organic' and shit then they go run butane or pentane through it lol..

There are a few tricks out there for getting damn near identical products and you can skip the chemicals.. and more should do that.. but they won't because it's the fad right now to make shatter and the like.. sigh.

THC% isn't everything....

A chunk a hash in my bowl, with a bic lighter as the only butane.
I'm good and high with a sweet resin the way it was made by nature.

32 and a hash man, I'll give the middle age thing, but only if you don't wear your pants below your ass

I been growing 33 yrs, 34 in November.
Might make me a senior

I am not talking about Ice Wax DSW but about good old Hashish, resin that has been pressed with a source of heat, something you are too young and on the wrong continent to have experienced.
Sam when you say quote: As for science instead of guesses, to me that is what you are doing, guessing that no one can do it. I understand your desire for science, but maybe that includes not presuming that only a lab test can be conclusive, when I think almost anyone with much dry sift experience can do it easy. One of us is wrong…..
One of us is most definitely wrong and so that we understand each other perfectly, I am not presuming I am simply using science as the best source of knowledge to answer questions.

My smell vision is broken so you will have to let your imagination be the judge of the yumminess of the is Platinum Kush. It did test better than it looks.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

I am not talking about Ice Wax DSW but about good old Hashish, resin that has been pressed with a source of heat, something you are too young and on the wrong continent to have experienced.
Sam when you say quote: As for science instead of guesses, to me that is what you are doing, guessing that no one can do it. I understand your desire for science, but maybe that includes not presuming that only a lab test can be conclusive, when I think almost anyone with much dry sift experience can do it easy. One of us is wrong…..
One of us is most definitely wrong and so that we understand each other perfectly, I am not presuming I am simply using science as the best source of knowledge to answer questions.

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I was going from:

Frenchy Cannoli said:

Diterpenes are not membranes and they do not rinse of in water
Diterpene is a true terpene made of 4 isoprene's units in the molecule. Monoterpenes, sesquiterpenes, and diterpenes are abundant in the essential oils of plants: turpentine contains several monoterpenes, and the rosin acids are diterpenes. Vitamin A is another important diterpene.
Only lab test can tell us the difference between dry sieve and ice water.

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Wouldn't said good ole' hashish from other countries just be dry sift that was beaten against a wall/etc. then rolled up by hand/heat?

Oh yes it is good ole' Hashish from other countries just be dry sift that was beaten against a wall/etc. then rolled up by hand/heat?
You do not have an accurate description of the techniques used to press DSW but yes I have spent many years in quite a few producing countries and I do have a pretty good knowledge of dry sieve. I have actually been making Hashish for over 40 years and it is because I know well both process that I want to see them studied scientifically?
I really do not understand what your problem is with that to tell the truth, I thought that finding definitive answer is what we are after.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

Oh yes it is good ole' Hashish from other countries just be dry sift that was beaten against a wall/etc. then rolled up by hand/heat?
You do not have an accurate description of the techniques used to press DSW but yes I have spent many years in quite a few producing countries and I do have a pretty good knowledge of dry sieve. I have actually been making Hashish for over 40 years and it is because I know well both process that I want to see them studied scientifically?
I really do not understand what your problem is with that to tell the truth, I thought that finding definitive answer is what we are after.

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No I understand the want to know by a lab.. but I mean.. can't you tell the difference between sift and iwe? I sure can.. I know others can too.. the water smells good because *something* is being rinsed away.. and whatever is in the water that smells good, would typically still be in a dry sift right?

Or am I missing something? We know by science there are water soluble terps that get rinsed.. why is it such a stretch that some people who smoke predominantly sift be able to tell the difference?

Aren't there people in other industries, like wine tasters, and vodka judges, etc. who go strictly by taste, and they are considered some of the best in the world?

I would think after so many years, we'd have a group of people in this industry who could tell the difference between somebody lying, and somebody telling the truth.. I might be younger than everyone else, but tastes are something that can be developed.

I've def. made and used my share of both sift and iwe.. as well as bho (yea yea).. and to me, it's easy to tell the difference.

It would be pretty cool to bring a handful of hardcore sifters and such and see if we could indeed blind test them correctly.. I think most of us could, but that's just me.

Shrug.

I will not be able to judge if there is any difference between dry sieve and ice water sieve until I made both with the same trims.
The water may smell because of terpenes that are leaking at the breaking point since the flow of terpenes going up toward the resin heads but that is also to check scientifically.
You are totally missing the point DSW which seems to be recurring with you.
I do not judge your or anybody else taste bud; I just want to lab test hash made by dry sieving and ice water sieving with the same trims to see in details the terpenes retention of both techniques.
That is what I do, I look for the science just so I can be sure of my knowledge before sharing

I have tested the same plants hash made via dry sift and water sift, dry sift has more terpenes. I used my GC/FID for the analysis. I understand your preference for hard science over opinions, but I think even you have opinions that are not based on facts but merely opinions? I can guarantee that water hash that is 60% THC by "dry weight", and dry sift that is made from the same plant, and is also 60% THC by "dry weight" the dry sift will have a higher terpene %, this is old news, like the difference in terpene % content between the same clone seeded or unseeded..
You need to listen to people that have experience and know or do your own research if you really feel you can prove otherwise with science, I already know you can't.
I don't know of a published study on the subject but if you ask Jeff Raber at Werk Shop in Pasadena who has done extensive testing of terpene contents in various Cannabis products he may have some results he will share with you.
Think about it, how could the terpene content be higher in water sift or solvent extracts, as both processes contribute to terpene loss?
Even dry sift does have small losses in that additional terpenes are lost via volatilization during drying and storage and even during dry sift processing. But much less then other methods specially if you do the dry sift work in freezing temps.
Do your test, please share the results.
-SamS

The more I smoke and try this and that. Been doing the bubble bags water ex. Find I dont l8ke it anymore. Too sticky gummy waxy. G9nna make my own sifter.

I like the fact thats its not re wet and ready to go.... versatile..... old world ways beating new tech kiss

It is because I have opinions and traditional knowledge that are not based on science that I do personal research since as you mentioned there is no published study on the subject. If there is loss of terpenes it would be interesting to know the percentage of loss and everything else we can I would think.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

I will not be able to judge if there is any difference between dry sieve and ice water sieve until I made both with the same trims.
The water may smell because of terpenes that are leaking at the breaking point since the flow of terpenes going up toward the resin heads but that is also to check scientifically.
You are totally missing the point DSW which seems to be recurring with you.
I do not judge your or anybody else taste bud; I just want to lab test hash made by dry sieving and ice water sieving with the same trims to see in details the terpenes retention of both techniques.
That is what I do, I look for the science just so I can be sure of my knowledge before sharing

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I wouldn't say that. It's been done and tested by Sam and I read about that quite a while ago.. shrug.

It's always been pretty common knowledge that even *some* water soluble terps get rinsed away, which is why people do their best to get the trichs in and out of the water as quickly as possible to retain as many as possible.. i'd have to think they're doing that for a reason right?

I just don't see how anything can have 'as many' of anything if you rinse them away in water (even a fraction of a %) or in some type of solvent.. it's just not possible I don't think.

I have looked myself to see if there is a study on this and nothing I can find, so if you do in fact do it and have it tested, def. share because this issue is something that's been beaten to death and there really isn't a definitive answer.

However, I have a feeling the sift will always retain more terps.

Y'all inspire me!

A start of something here. .

Going to try out a little 45 screening as a test run and if all good I want 3 of these so I can stack 90-73-45 over a mirror.

Always love me a new toy. .


Simple as can be.
Cut the top off a bucket and a hole in the lid.
Rocket science, Cannafornia style!




D. U. D. E ...


Edit to add,results...





Solid!

If it has been done and tested and you have read all about it, please share the infos of that common knowledge.
Anyway you are getting all mighty and upset when I just want to learn about the terpenes profiles of both techniques, you are sure of yourself and you may even be right which is all fine.
I just want all the details that I can get about it and I do not see your problem with that.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

If it has been done and tested and you have read all about it, please share the infos of that common knowledge.
Anyway you are getting all mighty and upset when I just want to learn about the terpenes profiles of both techniques, you are sure of yourself and you may even be right which is all fine.
I just want all the details that I can get about it and I do not see your problem with that.

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Sam shared, which is what i've read.. it's been done between sift and iwe with the same material is all i'm saying.. you said you have not done it, but others have, that's all.

Not mad at all, but I have a hard time believing that all that 'smell' that gets left in the bucket isn't flavor and terps being washed off.. vs. a dry sift that might retain a lot of that in the process.

Like Sam has said, when all you smoke is *one* certain type of extract, you get a taste for it, much like I eluded to earlier in the likeness of wine and vodka tasters who are consider to be 'world famous' on nothing other than their 'palate' and tastes.

I am all for the lab tests between terpene loss between sift and iwe, believe me.. because as i've stated, there is no *for sure* answer that I have been able to find.. but on the tongue? On the palate? Much like high end single malt scotch, whiskey, anything else.. it's on taste.

It hasn't been lab tested as the purest available, but certain brands have a reputation for being fantastic. As when I say thc% isn't everything, proof isn't everything in alcohol.. i'd take a smoother malt over a higher proof abv% anyday of the week.

Different strokes I suppose.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

It is because I have opinions and traditional knowledge that are not based on science that I do personal research since as you mentioned there is no published study on the subject. If there is loss of terpenes it would be interesting to know the percentage of loss and everything else we can I would think.

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There is no set % of loss of terpnes from water sifting, it all depends on the variety used, how dried, how manicured, the terpenes present before water, how long in water, how proccessed in the water, how cold the water, how the resin is dried, all of these make it very variable, but the bottom line is way more terpene loss then dry sift.
FC, do you believe terpenes modulate the effects of THC? Why? No science papers have been published that show this. I released my info more then a decade ago but not with a formal science article, all the terpene interest is because of my comments, I guess you or people in general have to believe in somethings without science proof? At least until they can get it?

What personal research have you already done with Cannabis? Is it science or opinion? Is it published? Science results are often peer reviewed, when published, but not always.
My interest in Cannabis research was really for my own gratification, I did not care if it was published, it was done for me and to help futher my work goals.

Did you contact Jeff Raber at the Werk Shop in Pasadena, Calif.? I am sure he has done the work already, or very likely. If you need his email just PM me, or you can get it on the WWW on his site. He is a pretty helpful guy, ask him. I know the answer is yes terpenes get lost but maybe he can convince you as he is a science guy! And maybe he will share his data as he publishes all his testing results online. He does believe that terpenes are important, that is for sure, he also can test for 35 terpenes, more then anyone else of the testing labs.

When I did my GC-FID terpene testing I tested for over 100 of the terpenes, on hundreds of varieties, but it was not science maybe? I did not publish, that is for sure.
Like when I said a decade ago that THCV does not get you high, it was still presumed by most or all to be maybe better then THC, but when I tried 100% pure THCV a decade ago, with zero high effects, my opinion changed, and before long everyone elses changed also.
I understand your desire for hard science, but unless you do it yourself, you will have to wait for a long time. Cannabis science has been driven by academics that wanted to publish results for the last decades, now that for profit Cannabis businesses will fund and do the research that may change as they do not want to prematurely let others know the results before they have a chance to commercially exploit the info, before releasing the info to others by publishing the findings.
I hope you do good Cannabis science and publish, there is never enough...
I will continue thrashing about seeking the answers to Cannabis questions that I am interested in.
-SamS

FC, do you believe terpenes modulate the effects of THC? Why? No science papers have been published that show this.
Yes I do and there is science paper on the subject actually, (if you are interested let me know). I am actually doing those research to back up traditions and prove that a lot of techniques used in producing countries for a very long time have a scientific foundation.
I am starting a workshop where I teach what I learned in producing countries.
It is not to be published per say, it is a teaching tool.
I did not contact Jeff Raber but I will.
I know that my water is full of terpenes, I use it to water my garden and the water still smell after a day or two. What I do not know and have not found anything about is where does the "leak' happen, I would imagine that it does mostly at the rupture point so that a lot of terpenes may come from the stalks and not the resin heads. I know that I am looking into details that seems unimportant but I have been studying resin glands, their membranes, the formation of cannabinoids, etc. in as much details as I could not only to further my knowledge to teach but to become a better Hashishin as well. When you know the material you work with at the deepest level your end product will reflect it and that goes for almost everything in life.
I would love to read your GC-FID terpenes testing which by the way can be call science if you went through 100 of varieties, you actually put me to shame I was planning to do that with a dozen or so and I thought I was dedicated.