What part of pineolene's statement do you claim is not true?
Last edited:
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Resin Quality Of Pollinated VS Unpollinated Buds. Is There Any Difference?
- Thread starter Psuper
- Start date
What part of pineolene's statement do you claim is not true?
KonradZuse
Active member
16% THC damn...? The thing is when they had that documentary when they injected the woman with pure thc she was freaking out and had a shitty high. IMO it's not just THC that gives you a high, it'
s the entire cannabinoid make up. Of course THC is said to be the biggest factor, but we need to look at the others as well IMO of course.
C
Chamba
For me samples with higher THC and terpenes of the same clone, I prefer the higher, in other words cleaner product be it resin or herb.
By smoke testing alone, can you tell the difference between resin of the same level of purity from clones of the same plant that are seeded and unseeded?
By smoke testing alone, can you tell the difference between resin of the same level of purity from clones of the same plant that are seeded and unseeded?
If you have both samples at the same time it should be easy, I know I could just by smoking.
-SamS
-SamS
J
juicepuddle
I would say its safe to say that THC % and terpenes are both very valuable to hash products, if you can manage it leave as many terps as you can.
pezmasterelite
Member
Sam_Skunkman, I have nothing but mad respect for you, and all the work you have done for everyone in our community.
http://www.internationalhempassociat.../jiha5107.html
The previous paper states the following:
"The quality of oils was rated as "very good" or even "excellent", regardless if pollination took place or not.",
after the section Prevention of Pollination, above Table 3.
Also, the information in Table 3 regarding the quantity of essential oil doesn't seem to take into account the amount of seed produced, perhaps they don't mention or I read too fast. Depending on how much seed there was produced, easily 10-50% of the weight could have been in seed, which has no resin. This could easily account for the difference in essential oil produced per hectare.
I mean no disrespect, I am sure you have smoked/vaped #s more oils than I have seen, but I don't necessarily agree the quality of cannabinoids/terpenes are effected terribly if at all by pollination and subsequent seed production. Also, I feel the quantity of cannabinoids/terpenes would be relatively the same if one takes into account the weight of seeds.
http://www.internationalhempassociat.../jiha5107.html
The previous paper states the following:
"The quality of oils was rated as "very good" or even "excellent", regardless if pollination took place or not.",
after the section Prevention of Pollination, above Table 3.
Also, the information in Table 3 regarding the quantity of essential oil doesn't seem to take into account the amount of seed produced, perhaps they don't mention or I read too fast. Depending on how much seed there was produced, easily 10-50% of the weight could have been in seed, which has no resin. This could easily account for the difference in essential oil produced per hectare.
I mean no disrespect, I am sure you have smoked/vaped #s more oils than I have seen, but I don't necessarily agree the quality of cannabinoids/terpenes are effected terribly if at all by pollination and subsequent seed production. Also, I feel the quantity of cannabinoids/terpenes would be relatively the same if one takes into account the weight of seeds.
I am sure that herb or resin that is unseeded is superior to seeded, at least for me and most I know. Both Cannabinoids and terpenes are reduced in seeded crops, this is pretty clear.
I have gotten 500 grams of seeds from a single plant, if you think that did not reduce the yield of flowers, resin, THC, and terpenes, for the plant to produce 500 grams of seeds, try rethinking why, all the best.
I do know a few people that are convinced that seeded was different in some way, like different Cannabinoids, but I have never found this, even though I looked.
-SamS
I have gotten 500 grams of seeds from a single plant, if you think that did not reduce the yield of flowers, resin, THC, and terpenes, for the plant to produce 500 grams of seeds, try rethinking why, all the best.
I do know a few people that are convinced that seeded was different in some way, like different Cannabinoids, but I have never found this, even though I looked.
-SamS
pezmasterelite
Member
I am sorry to keep bothering you, and I feel honored you stopped by my page to check me out.
I am not arguing the floral production is minimized, I am saying that the resin content and quality of the seeded vs non-seeded bud should be somewhat similar when all the seeds have been removed.
I think the resin to calyx weight ratios will be similar, as opposed to resin to overall plant weight including seeds.
Regarding the difference in cannabinoids, I think I read on here you have your own GC machine. Have you not seen significant differences in the cannabinoid levels you are checking? How many different cannabinoids are you looking for when you test?
b.t.w. The paper kinda flip-flops on whether or not they say the resin is better. In the section Greenhouse Experiment, they first say,
"The scent tests did not result in a significant difference between the two different oil types. On an ordinal ranking scale from bad to excellent, all tested oils from ‘Kompolti’ were rated "very good" or even "excellent".",
then later say,
"The scent of oils from non-pollinated plants was judged as being more intensive and more powerful. The scent originating from pollinated plants seemed to be more of a typical "hemp odor"."
Thank you for your time.
pez
I am not arguing the floral production is minimized, I am saying that the resin content and quality of the seeded vs non-seeded bud should be somewhat similar when all the seeds have been removed.
I think the resin to calyx weight ratios will be similar, as opposed to resin to overall plant weight including seeds.
Regarding the difference in cannabinoids, I think I read on here you have your own GC machine. Have you not seen significant differences in the cannabinoid levels you are checking? How many different cannabinoids are you looking for when you test?
b.t.w. The paper kinda flip-flops on whether or not they say the resin is better. In the section Greenhouse Experiment, they first say,
"The scent tests did not result in a significant difference between the two different oil types. On an ordinal ranking scale from bad to excellent, all tested oils from ‘Kompolti’ were rated "very good" or even "excellent".",
then later say,
"The scent of oils from non-pollinated plants was judged as being more intensive and more powerful. The scent originating from pollinated plants seemed to be more of a typical "hemp odor"."
Thank you for your time.
pez
A slight tangent from the topic at hand, maybe an "intermission" during the show...
I looked into the possibility of making cannabis essential oil a few years ago, these plants just smell so good, cannabis essential oil might be very useful in aromatherapy and such.
I read a few papers, pretty sure one of 'em was the paper Sam referenced above. Anyway, I found out that to produce 1 fluid ounce of oil (this is a very very small bottle, about 1 inch high) it takes 50 LBS OF FLOWERS!!!
Well, there went that idea...
Carry on fellas!
I looked into the possibility of making cannabis essential oil a few years ago, these plants just smell so good, cannabis essential oil might be very useful in aromatherapy and such.
I read a few papers, pretty sure one of 'em was the paper Sam referenced above. Anyway, I found out that to produce 1 fluid ounce of oil (this is a very very small bottle, about 1 inch high) it takes 50 LBS OF FLOWERS!!!
Well, there went that idea...
Carry on fellas!
well, it comes to mind, that any plant seeded while in early stages of flowering, would not have that mature glands or that many of them.
while a plant seeded at the latest possible date, would have shitloads more and (plus alot more seeds)
so maybe it really just depends on when the plant was pollinated?
it isnt really till in the 4-5th week that i get "smokable" buds, but by then my seeds could allready be done (or getting done, but since seeded so early, the plant would have not made alot of anything but seeds)
while a plant seeded at the latest possible date, would have shitloads more and (plus alot more seeds)
so maybe it really just depends on when the plant was pollinated?
it isnt really till in the 4-5th week that i get "smokable" buds, but by then my seeds could allready be done (or getting done, but since seeded so early, the plant would have not made alot of anything but seeds)
You are right that I have HPLC, GC, to analyze my plants and products, and I have for 20 years.
If you measure the yields of the same clone seeded and not seeded you will find that the seeded plant produced less Cannabinoids and terpenes then the unseeded plants, this is why Sinsi is so popular it is better in quality and quantity then seeded plants of the same variety.
As for the ratios being being similar, they are not, the terpene levels and Cannabinoid levels of the resin are lower, as confirmed by analysis, have you done any analysis at all? Or are you just guessing? It is easy to do analysis on yields, just weigh seeded Vs unseeded, compare resin, herb, yields with or without seed weight. I did this decades ago...
When plants make seeds they devote a lot of energy to seed making, instead of making flowers, resin, Cannabinoids, terpenes.
The more seeded the more of the effect.
Normally I test for the main 10 or 12 Cannabinoids but I can test for all 90 of them if I want to. Yes, seeded resin is lower in Cannabinoids and terpenes as confirmed by GC analysis.
Also contrary to most peoples belief the Cannabinoids found in a clone seeded or unseeded are the same, just the levels were changed a bit.
If I remember right the terpene levels were 50% lower in seeded plants.
"The yields of essential oils gained from non-pollinated plants were more than twice as high as those pollinated (Table 3). The scent tests did not result in a significant difference between the two different oil types. On an ordinal ranking scale from bad to excellent, all tested oils from ‘Kompolti’ were rated "very good" or even "excellent". The scent of oils from non-pollinated plants was judged as being more intensive and more powerful. The scent originating from pollinated plants seemed to be more of a typical "hemp odor"."
-SamS
If you measure the yields of the same clone seeded and not seeded you will find that the seeded plant produced less Cannabinoids and terpenes then the unseeded plants, this is why Sinsi is so popular it is better in quality and quantity then seeded plants of the same variety.
As for the ratios being being similar, they are not, the terpene levels and Cannabinoid levels of the resin are lower, as confirmed by analysis, have you done any analysis at all? Or are you just guessing? It is easy to do analysis on yields, just weigh seeded Vs unseeded, compare resin, herb, yields with or without seed weight. I did this decades ago...
When plants make seeds they devote a lot of energy to seed making, instead of making flowers, resin, Cannabinoids, terpenes.
The more seeded the more of the effect.
Normally I test for the main 10 or 12 Cannabinoids but I can test for all 90 of them if I want to. Yes, seeded resin is lower in Cannabinoids and terpenes as confirmed by GC analysis.
Also contrary to most peoples belief the Cannabinoids found in a clone seeded or unseeded are the same, just the levels were changed a bit.
If I remember right the terpene levels were 50% lower in seeded plants.
"The yields of essential oils gained from non-pollinated plants were more than twice as high as those pollinated (Table 3). The scent tests did not result in a significant difference between the two different oil types. On an ordinal ranking scale from bad to excellent, all tested oils from ‘Kompolti’ were rated "very good" or even "excellent". The scent of oils from non-pollinated plants was judged as being more intensive and more powerful. The scent originating from pollinated plants seemed to be more of a typical "hemp odor"."
-SamS
I only ever do partial pollinations, ie, brushing a few lower branches with pollen and leaving the rest sinsemilla, so I have never really noticed any difference, but I would probably not even notice a 1 or 2% change in THC, as my system is probably overloaded to begin with anyway.
I'm not going to argue with Sam's machines or expertise, though.
I'm not going to argue with Sam's machines or expertise, though.
Psuper
Member
Thanks for the input brother Chamba. I was glad to see you responded...Iam very interested to see how much of a difference (if any!) I'll be able to distinguish in the potency and flavor vs. hashish of the same purity from sinsemilla of the same strain. Unfortunately I don't have clones to compare next to eachother for this, just seeds of the same strain.
Psuper
Member
I very much appreciate the information and links to the papers you shared brother Sam. Thanks for taking the time to be a moderator here.
C
Chamba
Unfortunately I don't have clones to compare next to eachother for this, just seeds of the same strain.
that's easy, simply pollinate one branch then smoke test an equal weight of resin or bud derived from a seeded and a non-seeded branch of the same seedling to compare the quality of the highs and their strengths..but of course, use a magnifying glass to make sure you are comparing resin heads that are of the same level of ripeness ....so the seeded branch will probably have to be harvested slightly earlier
that's easy, simply pollinate one branch then smoke test an equal weight of resin or bud derived from a seeded and a non-seeded branch of the same seedling to compare the quality of the highs and their strengths..but of course, use a magnifying glass to make sure you are comparing resin heads that are of the same level of ripeness ....so the seeded branch will probably have to be harvested slightly earlier
Last edited:
I don't think that covers the question at hand, because both the seeded and unseeded branches will belong to a seeded plant. Who's to say there aren't systemic changes brought about when a portion of a plant is pollinated?
I think it would be much better to duplicate the plant via layering to avoid mutation from cuttings, separate it, and then run the experiment.
some peeps are saying it has added medicinal effects.
besides the cannabinoid ratio and terpenes ratio compared the actual plant weight itself, there will be less of both in seeded plants.
from my understanding, the resin itself has a smaller ratio of cannabinoids and terpenes from an extract of cannabis.
The cannabinoids are usually in the globular heads, so does that resin have anything different, assuming the length of the trichome has some other plant oils/waxes that can be different between unseeded and seeded possibly?
I assume the resin still stays the same, but as for added medicinal effects, it could be as small as one single action of a function of a cannabinoid modulating a portion of this medicinal effect.
Besides one single cannabinoid changing everything, which I believe if I smoke a good hybrid, it has CBD and THC, not other things that make the high feel different.
The other psychoactive cannabinoids affect the high and medicinal qualities.
The resin is there to preserve the seed DNA by absorbing UV I assume, since THC is the echelon of that plant intelligence. It is with great caution I posit that it is meant to absorb and maybe use this UV light to preserve it's DNA. Another reason is resin traps bugs, but also, I believe the plant in the equator region would have a high-molecular weight chain / optical crystal such as CBD and THC.
I believe at the equator THC has evolved while in the north it remains as hybrids and the natural cannabis has lost all of it's long-chain psychoactive properties for the most part.
Another difference could be the fats/waxes as to the bioavailability of ingested herb, because seeded plants might have more of those types of fats.
besides the cannabinoid ratio and terpenes ratio compared the actual plant weight itself, there will be less of both in seeded plants.
from my understanding, the resin itself has a smaller ratio of cannabinoids and terpenes from an extract of cannabis.
The cannabinoids are usually in the globular heads, so does that resin have anything different, assuming the length of the trichome has some other plant oils/waxes that can be different between unseeded and seeded possibly?
I assume the resin still stays the same, but as for added medicinal effects, it could be as small as one single action of a function of a cannabinoid modulating a portion of this medicinal effect.
Besides one single cannabinoid changing everything, which I believe if I smoke a good hybrid, it has CBD and THC, not other things that make the high feel different.
The other psychoactive cannabinoids affect the high and medicinal qualities.
The resin is there to preserve the seed DNA by absorbing UV I assume, since THC is the echelon of that plant intelligence. It is with great caution I posit that it is meant to absorb and maybe use this UV light to preserve it's DNA. Another reason is resin traps bugs, but also, I believe the plant in the equator region would have a high-molecular weight chain / optical crystal such as CBD and THC.
I believe at the equator THC has evolved while in the north it remains as hybrids and the natural cannabis has lost all of it's long-chain psychoactive properties for the most part.
Another difference could be the fats/waxes as to the bioavailability of ingested herb, because seeded plants might have more of those types of fats.
i always figured the plant made all that shit to fuck with you so you become its slave. once it gets pregnant it needs you less.
I love my mistresses!
I love my mistresses!
P
pineolene
But a VERY slight difference in terpenoid structure (ie an isomer) could easily account for this seeded resin having a different affect phenomena. Also could be psychosomatic. Many of the terpenoids, as you know, are closely related in structure. I highly doubt you were looking on this level
Neither the GC nor the HPLC can tell you about very minute changes in molecule structure, like the bond angles and other subatomic info. You know the GC/HPLC combo doesn't tell the whole story. The hormonal changes that occur in pollinated plants, and resulting metabolic changes that occur with hormone changes, could be one reason for a possible "seeded resin" affect. ps. I can upload the paper demonstrating that GC is not a valid method of quantifying cannabinoids in a smoked product if there is interest. In reference to the 16% Skunk tested via GC. (or GC/fid?)
Sure upload a paper that shows GC is no good for analysis of Cannabis to be smoked. But to be honest we have done thousands of GC/HPLC analysis for decades and I do not agree with what you say.
Using HPLC so you can total the THC + THCA is only maybe relevant for products that will be eaten. If you are going to smoke it all that is important is the THC as all the THCA is decarboxylated by the act of smoking anyway,
Anyway the facts are simple, seeded plants have up-to 50% less terpenes, as well as less Cannabinoids. I would guess that is the main reason seeded is inferior to unseeded, you can postulate all kinds of other reasons, but I suspect the main reason is what I said.
I am curious do you do any analysis or just read papers on the subject?
-SamS
Using HPLC so you can total the THC + THCA is only maybe relevant for products that will be eaten. If you are going to smoke it all that is important is the THC as all the THCA is decarboxylated by the act of smoking anyway,
Anyway the facts are simple, seeded plants have up-to 50% less terpenes, as well as less Cannabinoids. I would guess that is the main reason seeded is inferior to unseeded, you can postulate all kinds of other reasons, but I suspect the main reason is what I said.
I am curious do you do any analysis or just read papers on the subject?
-SamS
But a VERY slight difference in terpenoid structure (ie an isomer) could easily account for this seeded resin having a different affect phenomena. Also could be psychosomatic. Many of the terpenoids, as you know, are closely related in structure. I highly doubt you were looking on this level
ps. I can upload the paper demonstrating that GC is not a valid method of quantifying cannabinoids in a smoked product if there is interest. In reference to the 16% Skunk tested via GC. (or GC/fid?)
Last edited:
