Resin Quality Of Pollinated VS Unpollinated Buds. Is There Any Difference?

Psuper · Aug 18, 2011

Hello again brothers and sisters!

I have a single intersexed plant that pollinated itself heavily, some early in flowering even. Much of the pollinated/seeded bud will be hash making material.

I understand the plant will reduce developemnt of additional calyxes and trichomes; it will mature quicker now that it is putting energy into developing seeds. I will face a lower yield in the end than i would have otherwise.

But is there any reason that the resin should be of lower or higher quality coming from this plant than if it was not pollinated?
There will be less trichomes than there would have been otherwise, sure, but is the quality the same?

devilgoob · Aug 18, 2011

I had been lead to the conclusion that seeded has other medicinal properties that it's sinsemilla counterpart. It is not scientific fact, but people make hash with their seeded bud when they do this and a few people who identify as medical have said this.

bakelite · Aug 19, 2011

Psuper,
I had heard the same thing as you. The best weed I have ever smoked has always been sensimilla. I only dust a branch at a time so it is hard for me to tell. I wanted to bump this thread & hopefully get to the bottom of this.

-bakelite

pineolene · Aug 23, 2011

I hashed some seeded bud and left the wet pile of trim on my back deck. A few days later there were hundreds of cannabis seeds starts growing from this pile of trim. The hash itself, was exactly the same as the hash from sensimilla.

KonradZuse · Aug 23, 2011

Well since the plant uses most of it's energy into making it's babies(seeds) it shouldn't be near as potent as sensi.

mugenbao · Aug 23, 2011

KonradZuse said:
Well since the plant uses most of it's energy into making it's babies(seeds) it shouldn't be near as potent as sensi.

And yet... I've never noticed any significant difference in potency, even though I pollinate at least one branch on every grow.

There will certainly be less smokeable material, though

KonradZuse · Aug 23, 2011

mugenbao said:
And yet... I've never noticed any significant difference in potency, even though I pollinate at least one branch on every grow.

There will certainly be less smokeable material, though

Idk man, I've never done a comparison, it's just how it works I thought... I guess it's still possibly to get strong buds, but something is definitely being traded off.

Chamba · Aug 24, 2011

some growers swear that seeded bud is more potent (I actually used to think this was so too) while others swear that sensi bud is more potent....I guess it depends partly on what rings an individual's bell (one man's excellent buzz is another's sleeping pill as well as one man's light buzz is another's tripping weed) as well how heavily seeded was the bud? was it pollinated early or late in flowering etc etc ..

as well as the following....

with all things being equal, I really haven't noticed any difference...being equal means comparing buds harvest when a majority of the trichomes on the seeded bud/branch are at the same stage of maturity as the trichomes on the unseeded bud/branch of the same tree, as often the seeded bud's trichomes seem to finish a little earlier...so don't compare seeded and unseeded buds that are harvested at the same time or naturally the seeded buds will have a greater majority of mature trics will have a slightly heavier stone, less cerebral high...but don't take what I write as the answer as this is just a casual observation on a few occasions , not some in depth scientific study...lol, far from it

pineolene · Aug 25, 2011

mugenbao said:
And yet... I've never noticed any significant difference in potency, even though I pollinate at least one branch on every grow.

There will certainly be less smokeable material, though

agreed. great post chamba.

Phillthy · Aug 25, 2011

never seen a difference.

SOTF420 · Aug 25, 2011

I guess someone needs to grow two identical clones side by side and only pollinate one of them and get the end results tested afterwards. I lean towards the school of thought that partially seeded is actually a bit stronger possibly due to being more mature trichome wise as it does seem to hasten ripening compared to unpollinated flowers. I feel like when the plant completes it's life cycle and intended purpose which is to reproduce the species then the effects are going to be complete and fulfilling as well. Seedless is excellent of course but there seems to be something missing compared to the seeded herb in my experience. Some of the best bud I have ever had has been heavily seeded in fact :joint:

One thing is for sure that's way less actual material for smoking! But plenty of seeds to grow more later on :good:

mugenbao · Aug 25, 2011

SOTF420 said:
I guess someone needs to grow two identical clones side by side and only pollinate one of them and get the end results tested afterwards.

I did that on my last Blue Satellite 2.2 run, with the caveat that I didn't get it tested other than by smoking it

These plants were identical clones, grown literally side-by-side under the same light, in the same soil mix, watered by the same reservoir via Blumats, and I didn't notice any lesser potency in the pollinated bud at all.

I ended up with less smokable material on the seeded one, but also ended up with a few hundred of these:

.

pezmasterelite · Aug 25, 2011

I have done at least half a dozen of such side-by-side comparisons. I run a seed company and have done breeding for some time. Certain people know me as "Seeds" as about half of my buds have some seeds do to the number of males I have and the breeding that I do. Anyways, about half of what I smoke has around 5-10 beans per blunt, some more.

The extra surface area on the calyxes with seed provide a larger area(think super swollen calyx) for many glandular trichomes.
- Robert Connell Clarke( Marijuana Botany )

The larger the surface area of the calyxes the more "space" for glandular trichomes to grow, I think that was the idea he was getting at in the book.

Plants which are fertlized have a more diverse cannabinoid/terpene ratio.
- DJ Short( Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis )

He explains this with the quality of hash produced from traditional cultivars like Thai and such which were always grown with seed.

If you count the weight of the beans, the plant ends up producing around the same mass when trimmed when compared to their sensi clones.
- my own experience

The only downside of having seeds in my opinion is that you lose an equal amount of weight in sensi bud for the seeds, and seeds weigh a lot. It is also quite annoying if there are more than a handful of beans per gram of herb. A grinder with larger spacing is really nice for the seed collector. Get yourself a ripoff, not a real spacecase or other equally nice grinder.

As for the quality, I have not really seen that big of a difference. The most blueberry flavored BB plant I had was really beaned up. This is the only recent example I have of sensi and non sensi grown back to back. I have another BB coming out soon which is beaned again, I can see if that is more BB flavored like the first I grew, compared to the middle plants.

As was said before, the plants mature at different rates, and I especially pick them at different times if they have seeds or not. Seeded plants are picked based on whether or not the seeds are mature, sensi plants are picked when I think they are prime, clear/cloudy ratios and the like.

That is what I got, I would love to see some references of more info on whether or not the things I said above are generally true or not. I think I have interpreted the authors correctly, and I trust them.

Peace all.

PistilPete · Aug 25, 2011

I'm not a breeder, but i do throw some pollen around from time to time.

I recently harvested two plants of Bubba Kush Bx1.

-Both were cuttings of equal size, taken at the same time, from the same mother plant.
-Both had the same amount of veg time under the same light.
-Both were flowered at the same time, for the same amount of time, under the same light.
-One was moderately to heavily pollinated. I harvested about 1800 seeds from her. The other was not pollinated at all.

They both taste the same and provide the same high. If there weren't seeds in the buds, i couldn't tell the 2 finished products apart.

That's my 2 pesos anyhow.

KonradZuse · Aug 25, 2011

pezmasterelite said:
I have done at least half a dozen of such side-by-side comparisons. I run a seed company and have done breeding for some time. Certain people know me as "Seeds" as about half of my buds have some seeds do to the number of males I have and the breeding that I do. Anyways, about half of what I smoke has around 5-10 beans per blunt, some more.

The extra surface area on the calyxes with seed provide a larger area(think super swollen calyx) for many glandular trichomes.
- Robert Connell Clarke( Marijuana Botany )

The larger the surface area of the calyxes the more "space" for glandular trichomes to grow, I think that was the idea he was getting at in the book.

Plants which are fertlized have a more diverse cannabinoid/terpene ratio.
- DJ Short( Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis )

He explains this with the quality of hash produced from traditional cultivars like Thai and such which were always grown with seed.

If you count the weight of the beans, the plant ends up producing around the same mass when trimmed when compared to their sensi clones.
- my own experience

The only downside of having seeds in my opinion is that you lose an equal amount of weight in sensi bud for the seeds, and seeds weigh a lot. It is also quite annoying if there are more than a handful of beans per gram of herb. A grinder with larger spacing is really nice for the seed collector. Get yourself a ripoff, not a real spacecase or other equally nice grinder.

As for the quality, I have not really seen that big of a difference. The most blueberry flavored BB plant I had was really beaned up. This is the only recent example I have of sensi and non sensi grown back to back. I have another BB coming out soon which is beaned again, I can see if that is more BB flavored like the first I grew, compared to the middle plants.

As was said before, the plants mature at different rates, and I especially pick them at different times if they have seeds or not. Seeded plants are picked based on whether or not the seeds are mature, sensi plants are picked when I think they are prime, clear/cloudy ratios and the like.

That is what I got, I would love to see some references of more info on whether or not the things I said above are generally true or not. I think I have interpreted the authors correctly, and I trust them.

Peace all.

Swollen makes sense that it would produce more triches, but what I've always been told was that the energy is being used to feed the seeds, so I figured it would always be less potent. It also makes sense that the seeds would take up a lot of space as well, but not potency?

I think someone needs to actually SEND SAMPLES TO A LAB so we can get some real testing going on. It just doesn't make sense that it would be as potent, but as you said above that a lot of space is taken up, so maybe the space that's taken up is where all the neuts for the seeds are given, and the rest is still as potent, as around such?

Also why would seeded plants have a more diverse cannabinoid makeup? What would cause it, the male?

SOTF420 · Aug 25, 2011

I believe the trichomes are there to protect the Cannabis flowers and possibly even more so when the plant is growing seeds inside of them once pollinated and in full reproductive mode. I think that unpollinated plants just do not fully finish compared to pollinated in my experience and by the time they do the trichomes have went so far amber that the THC levels are greatly decreased as opposed to pollinated buds that mature & finish faster. The added surface area of the big swollen calyx's make sense too. When a plant is not pollinated it is putting all of it's energy into growing more flowers and pistils to catch pollen for reproduction, but once pollinated the final phase of it's life cycle begins and the plant completes it's purpose to further it's own species. I feel like the high is more complete and just fuller in pollinated buds that is just my Toothy input but maybe I'm just stoned. Maybe not. :canabis:

Sam_Skunkman · Aug 26, 2011

Yes, seeded Cannabis resin is not as good as sinsi resin.
Seeded plants will be lower in THC and lower in terpenoids.
I have made both for years and sinsi resin is better for getting high. Here is an article:
This paper shows that sinsi makes better resin, and more of it, and why.

http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha5107.html

this is also interesting.
http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha4208.html

-SamS

Sam_Skunkman · Aug 26, 2011

Not true.
-SamS

pineolene said:
The hash itself, was exactly the same as the hash from sensimilla.

Chamba · Aug 26, 2011

Yes, seeded Cannabis resin is not as good as sinsi resin.
Seeded plants will be lower in THC and lower in terpenoids.

in your experience Sam, do samples that rate higher in lab THC tests always correspond with getting higher from smoke testing the same samples? In other words have you lab tested a number of samples with some testing a higher THC but you got higher from samples that had a (slightly) lower THC test rating? The tests show there is a difference, but is it noticeable or discernible when smoke tested? ..or it is really a question of the quality of the high rather than the actual outright potency or due to the way each samples affects an individual(when comparing resin from seeded and unseeded bud) that tends to make some experienced smokers say that either seeded or unseeded resin gets them higher (or has a better high..or both)?

Sam_Skunkman · Aug 26, 2011

Very difficult to understand your questions but I will try.

For me samples with higher THC and terpenes of the same clone, I prefer the higher, in other words cleaner product be it resin or herb.

THC levels from a GC analysis mean little, Skunk #1 is 16% THC but many smokers prefer the high over other higher THC weed.
As you know everyone prefers different highs and tastes, so that will make a big difference.
All serious resin heads I know prefer unseeded resin, no question.
I am not saying seeded resin is no good, if it is cleaner then the same resin but sinsi.but not as clean as the seeded resin you might well prefer the seeded cleaner resin over the sinsi resin that has more debris left in it.
-SamS

Chamba said:
Yes, seeded Cannabis resin is not as good as sinsi resin.
Seeded plants will be lower in THC and lower in terpenoids.

in your experience Sam, do samples that rate higher in lab THC tests always correspond with getting higher from smoke testing the same samples? In other words have you lab tested a number of samples with some testing a higher THC but you got higher from samples that had a (slightly) lower THC test rating? The tests show there is a difference, but is it noticeable or discernible when smoke tested? ..or it is really a question of the quality of the high rather than the actual outright potency or due to the way each samples affects an individual(when comparing resin from seeded and unseeded bud) that tends to make some experienced smokers say that either seeded or unseeded resin gets them higher (or has a better high..or both)?

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Resin Quality Of Pollinated VS Unpollinated Buds. Is There Any Difference?

Psuper

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devilgoob

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bakelite

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pineolene

KonradZuse

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mugenbao

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Chamba

pineolene

Phillthy

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SOTF420

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mugenbao

pezmasterelite

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PistilPete

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KonradZuse

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SOTF420

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Sam_Skunkman

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