Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

simba · Nov 5, 2007

greenisgold. if u allready have the 270agro and 400eyemhblue use them and that will be like a Philip's CMH with Just a Lil more Power in the first 5k hours of life after that the cmh would be outputting more power because it holds lumen maint and EYEMHBLUE dont...
but if u allready got them use them.. dont waste that money allready spent.. just dont buy them again..
in future if ya really want u can go 400cmh and 250 Son-t Plus but even then i havent seen a yield that justified the extra costs...

C21H30O2 yes there is a relation however i dont have enough data onhand to post exactly ..

as far as red and blue ratios.. the philips CMH is perfect ratio for veg threw Flowering.. and promotes Great Growth while allowing the nodes to stay close but not to close..

azeo..
add that 150 or a standard UVB lamp from wallmart
i found that if i add uvb middle of flowering.. (not before flowers are truely formed)
but not to long after.. fills the sacks the best.. I found if i did it to early it acted like it wasnt even used.. and if to late it didnt fill enough.. (but when we did the experiments it was last week of flower and it did fill a lil but not as much middle flower uvb added..
but id LOVE to know how a 10K 150w MH does..i posted on HG a long time ago with studies.. from PHDS not jsut myself..

mpl now when u say 8" if u mean from the edge of the reflector down.. then u can go closer but u have to make sure you have area coverage.. but in short you may easily go closer..the only issue on that is the temp of the air coming in and how much of a swril gets created when the fan air hits the reflectors as the air will try to come back down the reflector not only reflects light but the air to.... i prob just sound confusing on this but its a really see it to belieive with each grow setup...
gota gol.. dam cat here licking my fingers while i typed LOL. he loves me.. nah hes HUNGRY>>

MPL · Nov 6, 2007

Here is a question for you CMH experts...

out of curiosity, would a 400w CMH be a better bulb than a 600w Hortilux Blue? Absolute intensity for each wavelength on the Hortilux might be higher than the superior overall relative wavelength values on the CMH.

In short, would the 600w Hortilux be a better lamp simply due to brute power at all wavelengths?

simba · Nov 6, 2007

a 600 horti blue has SHIT SPD>> same with there 1kw mh Blue.. (look at the PDF spd)
the 400 is the best they got and it dont compete..
in short about 1.2 years ago i asked EYE HORTI, if they had any thing that competed with PHILIPS 400 CMH retro-white. and there answer..
no we dont have any thing that can compete..

but let me answer your Q.
No..
even if it had same Output as Philips CMH the Heat THROW from the MH chem would FORCE you to raise it higher than a CMH even if cmh was a 600.. the eye MH throws heat.....so inv sqr law comes in to play and any energy you gained u lost..(this is for MH Blue 600 has worse spd)
a eye mh blue 400 throws heat just as bad as standard MH lamps.. and as we all know MH lamps THROWS more heat than HPS>> as the arc burns hotter.. but on the Philips cmh there arc tube holds that heat and only lets it rise and not THROW>.

blackone · Nov 6, 2007

simba said:
a 600 horti blue has SHIT SPD>> same with there 1kw mh Blue.. (look at the PDF spd)
the 400 is the best they got and it dont compete..
in short about 1.2 years ago i asked EYE HORTI, if they had any thing that competed with PHILIPS 400 CMH retro-white. and there answer..
no we dont have any thing that can compete..

but let me answer your Q.
No..
even if it had same Output as Philips CMH the Heat THROW from the MH chem would FORCE you to raise it higher than a CMH even if cmh was a 600.. the eye MH throws heat.....so inv sqr law comes in to play and any energy you gained u lost..(this is for MH Blue 600 has worse spd)
a eye mh blue 400 throws heat just as bad as standard MH lamps.. and as we all know MH lamps THROWS more heat than HPS>> as the arc burns hotter.. but on the Philips cmh there arc tube holds that heat and only lets it rise and not THROW>.

Energy isn't lost due to the inv square law - it's just distributed on a larger area. If you keep your lights very close then you'll get really big and beautiful buds bud your yield /W will suffer because the area of your grow space is too small and you get diminished returns from the plants that are now receiving light at a higher intensity. For most people I believe g/W (Or an even better measurement: g/KWH) is most important since power is our most precious ressource. Obviously if space is your biggest bottleneck then it's a totally different picture.

masterlow37 · Nov 6, 2007

Bigger CMH's

Bigger CMH's

So is PHILLIPS making 600 & 1000w versions of the CMH ?

Rolling_Stoned · Nov 6, 2007

Im not an expert on the subject, but from what i've heard 400w is as big as they get.

simba · Nov 7, 2007

blackone. becasue the mh blue 600 cant go as close at the 400 cmh or a 400 hps cant go as close as a CMH..so inv does play in it.. and ya it spreads it and wastes it at that point..

FORGET ABOUT 600 and 1KW CMH FOR A YEAR..

(not yelling just want it to stand out)
oh there is a copy of philips that tries to copy everything but they FAIL>>>>
if u find a bulb looking like philips cmh without there name its a STOLEN CRAP COPY>> and they about to get the pants sued off by phillips...as they just found out about it..
and yes i have tested them.. they output sucks.. and dont last and more expensive than philips LMFAO>>>>

Philips makes there CMH in USA cause they NEED Quality Control and they said they couldnt get that anywhere but USA Japan or Germany for mfr there CMH bulbs

fatbob166 · Nov 8, 2007

Simba.....you finally convinced me. I've had my eye on this thread for a while now, and have read a lot about cmh on other forums as well. All that's left to do is test it out myself.....

TGT · Nov 8, 2007

I just got myself a 400 watt HPS for starting out my rooted clones to get them ready to be transported to the bud location. I was wondering where I could get one of those CMH bulbs? Will I have to order it or can I get it from Home Depot or a regular store found here in Canada? Also, will they work with most HPS coil ballasts?

TGT

simba · Nov 8, 2007

fat let us know how u like it..

simba

Pinball Wizard · Nov 8, 2007

400 CMH bulb

400 CMH bulb

3 white widow plants, 27 days veg from seed sprout. Will start flowering today. One has already shown it's female pre-flower, so I quess it's time to start phase 2.... :jump:

....12/12 ...(We have a lift-off..Houston!)

Very bushy, the best I ever saw, about one foot tall... if nothing else?...this is a killer bulb for veg....enjoy.

greenisgold · Nov 8, 2007

TGT said:
I just got myself a 400 watt HPS for starting out my rooted clones to get them ready to be transported to the bud location. I was wondering where I could get one of those CMH bulbs? Will I have to order it or can I get it from Home Depot or a regular store found here in Canada? Also, will they work with most HPS coil ballasts?

TGT

Check simba's sig. That is pretty much the only place you can buy them.

8bitNES · Nov 9, 2007

Ok, I understand that this is a super bulb for veg and all-stages growing. In comparison to HPS in flowering, how does the CMH compare? What are the differences you've noticed using either bulb? I've never grown outdoor so I've never experienced buds under a full spectrum.

8bit

Guest · Nov 9, 2007

Beats the pants out of an hps!!! Check my gallery. :joint:

GrowerGoneWild · Nov 9, 2007

Rolling_Stoned said:
I think this is what you wanted:

Just by looking at those graphs I could come to the conclusion that HPS,
is an inferior light.

However, we know that this isn't true at all, its been proven time and time again that HPS lighting produces excellent product. Does it "beat the pants off an hps". ? Hard to say really.. Honestly, I think I've had similar results with the Hortilux enhanced bulbs. Well lets just ask this simply, can CMH
deliver 1 gram per watt? I know that HPS can.

Anyways, I would be willing to give CMH a try. I'm more or less interested in seeing how a plant grows with this type of lighting. I've felt HPS is a bit lacking in some ways, and thats why I now run HPS/MH combo. IF CMH can deliver I'll switch. Mebby next grow I'll pick up one of these CMH lights, I just so happen to have some spare ballast parts lying around.

Good discussion on CMH. lots of interesting info and first hand experience with CMH.

Rolling_Stoned · Nov 9, 2007

I just got my CHM in the mail to today, and am excited to test it out. I was wondering what the the 'HPS- retro white' thing means? I obviously know that these things work on a HPS, but doesn't it also work on a pulse start MH ballast? Is philips the only ones making these bulbs?

Guest · Nov 9, 2007

Rolling Stoned -

The bulb you have does not run a pulse start ballast. Just the hps ballast. They do make them in a pulse start format. However, those are not rated to operate in an open fixtre and are a much larger bulb/jacket. Like the big ass 400w halides.

Too stoned here forgot who questioned my "beats the pants" statement. Dude? It is vary obvious. 1gram per watt is as much a function of the rest of your grow as it is the light. I mean, you can have the best light in the world (CMH) and not reach optimum. You can have the ugly ass no UV, monochromatic hps pumping all the lumens you want and not get where you want if the rest of the grow is not dialed. Look the only thing the hps bulb does better is pump lumens. Plants don't see in lumens or know the difference between 55,000 and 29,000. The see/know SPD, photons and respond to virtually all of the spectrum for various hormone production and other functions of development. The added resin production, increased growth rates, tighter nodes, reduced stretch, better stem girth/strength, stronger taste and increased overall health is enough to do it for most. Not to jump you. I understand that we have all been hit by the marketing monsters out there. I mean shit I even tried AN crap for a while before I realised that it was all marketing and a simple organic regimine was easier, cheaper and healthier.

Give one a try. You will love it. :rasta:

Rolling_Stoned · Nov 9, 2007

Man this bulb is pretty cool!

Azeotrope said:
They do make them in a pulse start format. However, those are not rated to operate in an open fixtre and are a much larger bulb/jacket. Like the big ass 400w halides.

Wow man you sure do know a lot about these bulbs, so are these HPS- Retro White some sort of conversion bulb? IDK man i think the whole CMH thing just makes me think they would be best for MH ballasts.
Please help me out bro all your cander is greatly appreaciated :wave:

masterlow37 · Nov 9, 2007

CMH

CMH

simba said:
FORGET ABOUT 600 and 1KW CMH FOR A YEAR..

Hay simba, are you confident these sizes will for sure be availible in a year or so ?

Man someone just needs to do a comparison & post it already :chin:

somebody thats got 2 spaces (say 3' x 3'), identical reflectors, ballast, same cuttings (strain) & enviroment should do a 400w HPS in 1 -vs- a 400w CMH in the other. Though to be fair, they both need the same air flow/exchange inside the grow spaces. :2cents:

Peace

Rolling_Stoned · Nov 9, 2007

masterlow37 said:
Man someone just needs to do a comparison & post it already somebody thats got 2 spaces (say 3' x 3'), identical reflectors, ballast, same cuttings (strain) & enviroment should do a 400w HPS in 1 -vs- a 400w CMH in the other. Though to be fair, they both need the same air flow/exchange inside the grow spaces.

^^^

I agree with ya man 110%.

I just got my first CMH up and runnin, it seems to be really bright (brilliant observation), but i can also get it really close to my plants, like less than a foot away.

Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

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