Degumming of extracts

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

All that ever seems to get discussed is winterization/dewaxin. Yawn. Ever stop and think to what you're leaving in the end product?

Wanna "dewax" more thoroughly and remove additional contamination at without loosing so much time to the freezer? read on.

Some undesirable compounds left after dewaxing have hydrophyllic and phobic components in their chemical chain making separation difficult. A hexane/saline wash takes care of this, but this process scares people away with its "chemicals" and additional labglass. Additionally, hex/salt is more suited for "cleaner" starting materials, ie distillate, unless you wanna put 10gal of salt water through a few grams of shit crude.

While i still usually perform some sep funnel work after these processes, it's not necessary to ending up with a great result.

So degumming. There are a few ways of going about removing gums and phosphitides from an extract. I'm only going to cover portions of one way.

So kids if you wanna try something fun at home go to the canning section in the store or amazon and grab some citric acid.

i like to take my "rough crude" nothing more than regular filtered alcohol extract and when its down to a 4:1 volume of alc:extract and still warm from solvent recovery ill dump in a couple hundred ml's of water/citric acid and the separation happens right before your eyes. You can toss it in the freezer at this point for an hour or two to promote further nucleation of shit.

You'll be left with a hell of a pile of soap and some much clearer and cleaner extract to work from.

BigJohnny · Oct 18, 2017

how well would it work at a 10:1 ratio?

you mention using filtered alcohol extract, so this means you extracted with alcohol, and then filtered that through a filter of some kind before adding the citric acid? was it chilled before filtering?

SkyHighLer · Oct 18, 2017

$15/5lb

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EYFKNL8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dissolves mineral deposits better than CLR. I use some with my toothpaste if I don't get around to brushing my teeth for a few days. Incredible cutting power for being basically non-toxic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid

Also a picture of a bag of Citric Acid (Lemon Powder) from India, it is used as a coagulant to produce paneer, curd separated from whey. If you kneed paneer too long smoothing it into chhena, the butterfat will ooze out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paneer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhena

"How To Make Paneer?

Best Answer:

INGREDIENTS:

* 1 litre full-cream milk (use lean milk for a low-fat version)
* ½ tsp citric acid/lemon juice
* ½ cup warm water

PREPARATION:

* Set the milk up to boil.
* As the milk is readied, dissolve the citric acid/lemon juice in half a cup of warm water.
* When the milk comes to a boil, pour the acid-water/lemon juice-water mix into it.
* Reduce the heat and stir continuously until the milk is completely curdled.
# Remove from the heat when the separation of the curds and yellowish whey is complete.
# Strain the mixture through a clean muslin cloth.
# Hold it under running water for a minute and then press out the excess water.
# Hang the muslin for 15-20 minutes so that all the whey is drained out.
# To make the paneer into a block tie the muslin and place it under something heavy.
# The paneer can now be cut into chunks and used as required.

Anonymous · 10 years ago"
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/...HZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?qid=20080331032123AAEm1C2

Pictures at an India sweet and snack shop, sandesh, chum chums, and rasgoolas made with curd, also a two foot dosa, the result of thousands of years perfecting munchie satisfying delights.

Douglas.Curtis · Oct 18, 2017

Citric acid also decarbs cannabis, so watch your times of exposure.

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

Douglas.Curtis said:
Citric acid also decarbs cannabis, so watch your times of exposure.

right? how much soap you wanna make and how much can you sell artisnal canna soap for :tiphat:

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

SkyHighLer said:
Dissolves mineral deposits better than CLR. I use some with my toothpaste if I don't get around to brushing my teeth for a few days. Incredible cutting power for being basically non-toxic.

gotta get a bentonite, carbon, Citric scrub goin

peeeeeearly whites

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

BigJohnny said:
how well would it work at a 10:1 ratio?

you mention using filtered alcohol extract, so this means you extracted with alcohol, and then filtered that through a filter of some kind before adding the citric acid? was it chilled before filtering?

if i hold your hand now what are you gonna reach for when it's time to swim?

pay to play, google or crack a book.

pinkus · Oct 18, 2017

Subbed and a bit confused. Is that a frozen puck of concentrate covered with impurities that freeze BUT are excluded from the puck?

Thanks. reducing the volume of some ethanol extract right now.

Thomas@LRL · Oct 18, 2017

Interesting. Instagram was all abuzz about this recently, there is a picture of the reaction on @Future4200's IG, they don't go into detail but it sparks some interesting experiments for sure. I work with CO2 and it doesn't tend to pull a lot of phospholipids but as Hexane/Pentane aren't allowed in WA 502 this could be a valid way to improve the quality of concentrates on a fairly broad scale.

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

Thomas@LRL said:
Interesting. Instagram was all abuzz about this recently, there is a picture of the reaction on @Future4200's IG, they don't go into detail but it sparks some interesting experiments for sure. I work with CO2 and it doesn't tend to pull a lot of phospholipids but as Hexane/Pentane aren't allowed in WA 502 this could be a valid way to improve the quality of concentrates on a fairly broad scale.

oh the mass "outing of tech" that many have treated like an inside joke over the past year or so.

it's pretty damn simple and i've yet to see a yield loss over more "conventional" methods worth noting.

Research more and there are a ton of pretty simple ways of doing the same some more efficient than others. Enzymatic degumming is a tailored process.

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

that's a scotchbrite prefilter to give you an idea of how easy it is to catch this shit. The goods ran through there and into a bed of silica.

pinkus said:
Subbed and a bit confused. Is that a frozen puck of concentrate covered with impurities that freeze BUT are excluded from the puck?

Thanks. reducing the volume of some ethanol extract right now.

BigJohnny · Oct 18, 2017

mobin said:
if i hold your hand now what are you gonna reach for when it's time to swim?

pay to play, google or crack a book.

Probably more water and then drown, maybe some floating seaweed.

I was already thrown into the water man, I wasn't asking for hand holding, I was asking because I was curious if there was a specific reason you went with 4:1 instead of 10:1 that wasn't related to your differing extraction process.

When I search google for stuff, and believe me I've been spending days worth of time looking, I don't find too many specifics of anything, or just videos of joe blow with their tabletop setup where they themselves don't know jack.

I literally cannot afford to waste anything or screw anything up by trying any unknown process or experimenting too much at this point, so in an attempt to learn I was asking questions, which I thought was a thing that was encouraged.

as for your pay to play comment, we talked about this, I told you to I was more than happy to pay for your consulting services and you didn't get back to me, and now you post stuff freely on a public forum and tell me to pay to play when I ask a question about the topic? Do you work for a freemium company by chance?

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

BigJohnny said:
Probably more water and then drown, maybe some floating seaweed.

I was already thrown into the water man, I wasn't asking for hand holding, I was asking because I was curious if there was a specific reason you went with 4:1 instead of 10:1 that wasn't related to your differing extraction process.

When I search google for stuff, and believe me I've been spending days worth of time looking, I don't find too many specifics of anything, or just videos of joe blow with their tabletop setup where they themselves don't know jack.

I literally cannot afford to waste anything or screw anything up by trying any unknown process or experimenting too much at this point, so in an attempt to learn I was asking questions, which I thought was a thing that was encouraged.

as for your pay to play comment, we talked about this, I told you to I was more than happy to pay for your consulting services and you didn't get back to me, and now you post stuff freely on a public forum and tell me to pay to play when I ask a question about the topic? Do you work for a freemium company by chance?

i didn't put a post up there for people to ask questions. More for people to learn. I'm not gonna say much because how the hell do you think I figured it out? It's not gonna help me to tell you or anyone a godamn thing because at this "level" there are always more questions and if i dont say shit someone else will guess or try and figure it out and well thats how learning happens.

I ain't martha stewart, but sure i'll teach you how to cook for dough. I didn't see any reply from you and im a busy dude you know how to get a hold of me. and im not gonna tell you a thing you cant learn on your own.....from community college, the internet, and a set of balls.

i bet you don't become a fuckin CHEF learning from pintrest recipes.

Don't ask me questions, ask the search bar. Point out holes in shit I say, don't swallow my words for fun.

you're the one who makes a living doing this shit right?

I do 4:1 because at my volumes that's when i feel it "looks" good enough to work with as far as consistency for my filtering.

HashoftheTitans · Oct 18, 2017

I heat my crude to 120c, stir in water/citric acid, let cool to 80c, stir in 5% carbon and 5% bleaching clays, stir for 30 minutes, pour into ethanol to make 10/1 ratio, filter, freeze, filter.

I'm not concerned about decarbing the material because it is going to be distilled.

mobin · Oct 18, 2017

HashoftheTitans said:
I heat my crude to 120c, stir in water/citric acid, let cool to 80c, stir in 5% carbon and 5% bleaching clays, stir for 30 minutes, pour into ethanol to make 10/1 ratio, filter, freeze, filter.

I'm not concerned about decarbing the material because it is going to be distilled.

i felt like adding carbon/fullers to crude was a sure way to kill yields. Carbon isn't really selective in its absorbing.

if you're just going for a clean first pass with less work i guess it's fine to chuck some to the carbon.

Stond_Face · Oct 19, 2017

mobin said:
i didn't put a post up there for people to ask questions. More for people to learn. I'm not gonna say much because how the hell do you think I figured it out? It's not gonna help me to tell you or anyone a godamn thing because at this "level" there are always more questions and if i dont say shit someone else will guess or try and figure it out and well thats how learning happens.

I ain't martha stewart, but sure i'll teach you how to cook for dough. I didn't see any reply from you and im a busy dude you know how to get a hold of me. and im not gonna tell you a thing you cant learn on your own.....from community college, the internet, and a set of balls.

i bet you don't become a fuckin CHEF learning from pintrest recipes.

Don't ask me questions, ask the search bar. Point out holes in shit I say, don't swallow my words for fun.

you're the one who makes a living doing this shit right?

I do 4:1 because at my volumes that's when i feel it "looks" good enough to work with as far as consistency for my filtering.

You might be smart and all... i really cant say one way or the other.

However, you dont play well with others.

IMO... this site, and "our" community only would benefit from open, friendly conversations.

Cheers mate

Thomas@LRL · Oct 19, 2017

HashoftheTitans said:
I heat my crude to 120c, stir in water/citric acid, let cool to 80c, stir in 5% carbon and 5% bleaching clays, stir for 30 minutes, pour into ethanol to make 10/1 ratio, filter, freeze, filter.

I'm not concerned about decarbing the material because it is going to be distilled.

Fascinating, do you do this before standard winterization then? I have been wondering if it's really necessary to go all the way through the process first to avoid slowing down first stage filtering.

Thomas@LRL · Oct 19, 2017

mobin said:
i felt like adding carbon/fullers to crude was a sure way to kill yields. Carbon isn't really selective in its absorbing.

if you're just going for a clean first pass with less work i guess it's fine to chuck some to the carbon.

I haven't had very great luck with carbon, but I was also using it with Ethanol and I did not get nearly hot enough I suspect. I'm going to try it with silica again and see if I can improve my results, the last time some carbon came through the silica and didn't get caught before distillation so I suspect a small amount of D8 may have been generated as a result.

mobin · Oct 19, 2017

Stond_Face said:
You might be smart and all... i really cant say one way or the other.

However, you dont play well with others.

IMO... this site, and "our" community only would benefit from open, friendly conversations.

Cheers mate

they sure as fuck would. show up with your boots on or go away.

im not all that bright, i lack ambition, have no attention, and smoke pot so don't put me in the smart pile.

the "community" as the general populous at least here in the states is generally retarded and talking to these people can cause a fuckin idiot shiver so bad people will think you're michael j fox. hats off to gw he can deal with shitheads, dipshits, do gooders, and general tards like myself with such grace and patience. obviously im not him.

if you're making concentrates and giving them to other people you better have half an ounce of common sense. put your foilhat on and imagine all the bad things that can end up in your shit, then act accordingly. we cant trust testing facilities, "reputable" companies, etc.... and its not like the people who care to know a bit about "extraction" are surprised... so ya i speak with a bit of conviction and am a dick because if you wanna get real about shit.....lives are at risk and this is supposed to be "medicine".

sorry to harsh your mellow but im a bit of a misanthropic fuck and i see everything from a life a negative as fuck life or death point of view.

mobin · Oct 19, 2017

Thomas@LRL said:
I haven't had very great luck with carbon, but I was also using it with Ethanol and I did not get nearly hot enough I suspect. I'm going to try it with silica again and see if I can improve my results, the last time some carbon came through the silica and didn't get caught before distillation so I suspect a small amount of D8 may have been generated as a result.

i use it sparingly. Like if i expect X amount of contaminants then i'll add X amount carbon.

I've gotten carbon out with just DE. You gotta play with it to get the slurry method down to prevent blowouts but it pays off!

Degumming of extracts

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