Perlite cut vs. straight coco - a documented trial w/ clones

Hey everyone.

At the title suggests, I'll be documenting a run of clones in coco with and without perlite.

There's been an interesting discussion about the topic (over here,) during the course of which I offered to see what happens with this round of clones.

I do think different methods of watering could be better with the perlite mix and some without, or perhaps even some strains may like the mix and some not, so I don't think this thread will be definitive on the question of weather or not to cut your coco with something, but at least I will be able to get some side-by-side information with identical pots/plants/environment etc..

I'll be hand watering these plants, and feeding them the Head formula in veg and the standard lucas flowering formula in 12/12. They are a bit too agressive for the lower ppm Head formula once they get into flowering, and I am a bit too lazy to mix up less than a gallon at a time or mix up two. I might actually get some floranova bloom as that will make it easier to ramp up the ppm at the same ratio, though I want to see if I can get away with the 8/16 mix.

The strain for this round will be my keeper AK48 plant from Nirvana. I believe it to be the "cherry" pheno.

They will be vegged under about 200w of cfls, one large and 2 small ones. Flowering will be under a 1000w hps.

They were just transplanted from solo cups to 2.5 gallon (approximately) square pots, and will go to 4.5 gallon square pots prior to flowering.

I try to water before the top gets visibly dry and will be following that methodology for this trial.

I'll be moving them around at watering to make sure no plant gets more light overall than the others.

The specific medium is Botanicare Cocogro, which I like a lot and seems to be liked by others on the board as well. It is a fine grain, almost like ground coffee, but has some longer fibers as well. Reminds me of Canna Coco and the green GH Cocotek bricks, high quality coco imo.

The mixed plants are in the Cocogro and regular size perlite.

I also picked up a brick of the red GH Cocotek, "mixed" style, which is a more coarse coco with chunks and fibers. That was just enough for one plant through flowering, so we'll see how the "chunky" coco does too. I noticed when flushing the pots out, the "mixed" coco was draining much faster than the coco w/ perlite or pure coco, so there's an early observation.

Here's some pics of the plants and mediums -



There's the coco w/ perlite.. I used about 30% perlite.



The Cocogro.



The "mixed" coco..



So that's all to report for now, but I'm sure I've left something out so feel free to holler with questions or comments.

Good to see someone putting things to the test.

Hey Bojangles sweet test your running.
I will be following this to see your conclusions.

Do you put a layer of anything on the bottom to assist drainage, or just as is, mix or no mix?

I was wondering this myself Mr.Bojangles, I am going to be keeping an eye on this. Thank You.

Nice SxS. Hope the middle plant doesn't count towards the comparison.

sweet! I can't wait for the results.

I love the green GH coco bricks. Haven't tried the red ones yet though, I may just have to give that a shot.

badugi, why wouldn't the middle plant count? He said he moves the plants around so they get even light through out the grow.

bubbless said:

badugi, why wouldn't the middle plant count? He said he moves the plants around so they get even light through out the grow.

Click to expand...

Didn't see that. I think it'd still be better with stationary plants since it's difficult to keep track of which plant received how much light.

It'd also be a bit difficult, if one type of system out-performed another in one way or another that caused extra shading to the other type of plant, or similar complications.

Thanks for stopping in with thoughts and questions everyone!

badugi said:

Didn't see that. I think it'd still be better with stationary plants since it's difficult to keep track of which plant received how much light.

It'd also be a bit difficult, if one type of system out-performed another in one way or another that caused extra shading to the other type of plant, or similar complications.

Click to expand...

Hey badugi, thanks for your comments, definitely stuff I thought about myself.

As mentioned in my first post (long-winded, don't blame you for missing anything,) I don't think this trial can definitively answer which coco blend will be the best for all watering methods. That said, I believe a well managed side-by-side can at least offer some conclusions to be confirmed or contradicted by other members who may choose to run their own trials.

If a few of us come to the same conclusion for top-fed coco, and none dissent, perhaps we can say we have a solid result there, but you're right, the holy grail won't be found in this trial alone.

About the lighting.. I do see your point there - it would be hard to ensure they all get just the same amount of light, even with a relatively precise rotation. I'm glad you mentioned that, as I have come up with what I think is a much better idea after considering your comment. Check this out -

I'm thinking now I will pair them up (one coco, one coco/perlite) and put them in 3 rows of 2 plants under the large cfl, and switch each plant left and right (so they get equal exposure to the light from the small cfls on the side) and move the pairs up a row at watering.

I made a graphic to explain:



That way each plant will have a buddy of the other mix that got essentially identical light throughout. Let me know if that sounds good to you. As shown, I intend to move the pairs together up and down the length of the big cfl, as that would further minimize the difference in light received between each pair. Let me know what you think about that as well please, as the pair idea would still work without the vertical movement..

inreplyavalon said:

Hey Bojangles sweet test your running.
I will be following this to see your conclusions.

Do you put a layer of anything on the bottom to assist drainage, or just as is, mix or no mix?

Click to expand...

Thanks much! Nope I don't put anything at the bottom currently, though I do drill extra holes in the big flowering pot to make sure they have kickass drainage. The veg pots have lots of holes right from the store.

I've tried a layer of Hydroton at the bottom in the past, which helped drainage especially when I was using growbags, but don't anymore for a couple of reasons. Basically I don't feel the need with these square pots because I think they drain well on their own, and I also didn't dig on having to remove the hydroton from the bottom of the rootball at transplant time. Just seemed like extra stress to knock out the layer with roots embedded in it, and I didn't want to leave that when transplanting.

bubbless said:

sweet! I can't wait for the results.

I love the green GH coco bricks. Haven't tried the red ones yet though, I may just have to give that a shot.

Click to expand...

Yeah I dig the green GH bricks too! If my retailer is out of Cocogro I get the green GH bricks, though I might just switch as they both hydrate very fast and seem to be nearly identical in texture. I only got the red because my local retailer had them and I wanted to see how the "mixed" style coco did compared to the fine coco.

I kinda like how fast it drains, but suspect that it is holding less water and will need to be watered more often than the others as a result. I wouldn't run out and grab the stuff unless you really want to try it out.. I'll be able to weigh in much better in 3 months on the "mixed" as a result of this trial, and have some early conclusions about how well the plant does after they veg for a few weeks.

Quick update -

After trimming down the lower growth, I've eliminated 2 plants from the trial. One was the top of the motherplant, and seems to be making tighter nodes than the rest, and one had grown up a side branch much taller the others and thus had a slightly different shape than the rest. The others look so identical that I just can't let that one stick around. Having 6 plants makes my pair idea work too hehe.

Here's the final participants together after getting their lower growth trimmed down and groomed to an identical amounts of nodes:



With the pair arrangement, the mixed coco plant will be kinda on its own. It will get its own smaller cfl. In the past, those plants have neither outpaced nor fallen behind their counterparts under the larger cfl, as neither one is capable of much penetration; the larger cfl just covers more area. As such, I think the results for the mixed coco will be worthwhile, but they will now get an asterisk regarding the slightly different veg lighting.

Well I've rambled enough.. Thanks again for stopping by everyone!

All looks pretty well thought-out to me. Adding perlite would actually probably save me 30-50% off my non-recycled medium costs each run.

good thread mr. bong!

Thanks for running a test- will be watching. What do you think of the Canna coco vs botanicare's?

i hate the way perlite just hangs around in the enviroment, woods,garden, wherever. the shit's just plain ass ugly, that being said i do use it in soil, that's one of the great things about coco, i'll take mine right out of the bag. j

Mr. Bongjangles said:

Yeah I dig the green GH bricks too! If my retailer is out of Cocogro I get the green GH bricks, though I might just switch as they both hydrate very fast and seem to be nearly identical in texture. I only got the red because my local retailer had them and I wanted to see how the "mixed" style coco did compared to the fine coco.

I kinda like how fast it drains, but suspect that it is holding less water and will need to be watered more often than the others as a result. I wouldn't run out and grab the stuff unless you really want to try it out.. I'll be able to weigh in much better in 3 months on the "mixed" as a result of this trial, and have some early conclusions about how well the plant does after they veg for a few weeks.

Click to expand...

I've tried a few other brands of coco, but always just end up going back to the green bricks. like when i tried the "Down to Earth" coco, i found pieces of plastic, rocks, and electrical tape in the coco. and the plants i grew in that stuff were, well they just weren't doing as good as the ones in the GH coco.

yeah, i think you're right about needing to water the red bricked stuff more often, but i was kind of thinking that stuff might help with better root development. I don't know how to really explain it but it just seems to me that it would be a lot like using those tiny little cubes of rockwool, but with coco, i don't know if that makes any sense. what are your thoughts on that?
i'm anxious to see your results.

botanicare coco has worked well in the past...actually my favorite medium...mixed with chunky perlite...best results of any method yet...

doubledotdank said:

botanicare coco has worked well in the past...actually my favorite medium...mixed with chunky perlite...best results of any method yet...

Click to expand...

This is really good to hear because i'm about to start my first coco run with Botanicares CocoGrow...i was kinda nervous after i bought it because i originally was just going to go with Canna Coco but the hydro store i went to in my area didn't carry the Canna products. But seeing as i have read two positive things about the CocoGrow from both Doubledotdank and Mr. Bongjangles, i think i will be alright.

Mr. Bongjangles: This is an awsome thread and i feel it will be very informative for not only first time coco growers like myself, but to the experienced coco growers aswell. Not one person, newb or expert can be placed at a disadvantage when it comes to absorbing new info. i'll be watching this thread because i have a 2'x2'x4' 16 plant SOG W/ Botanicare CocoGrow and i was just planning on running it with pure coco, because that's what the majority of people in that thread by GETMO (??) seemed to have prefered. On the other hand, my mentor is absolutely dead set about me cutting the coco with perlite so i'd say this log came just in time.

Mr Bongjangles, nice to see someone doing a full blown comparison of the two all the way through!

*pulls up a chair*

Awfully damn good idea, MrB!

My only lament is that it doesn't help a hydro-style grower like me a whole lot. I do still think I'll be able to extrapolate some answers for my style, though.

I'll have to try the experiment with my style. I grow about 2 1/2 ft plants in 5 1/2 in sq pots. Don't think they're even 1/2 gal.

What you've REALLY got me interested in is the chunky coco. I'm startin to think that would work even better for me.

All the best,
TG

Great Thread. Has already answered a few questions for me, about with coco is better "Chunky" or "Fine" and to mix or not to mix. Will be watching this very close as I will be a coco virgin.

I Find.

Plants Grown In Fine Coco, Grow Thin Complex Root Systems

With Added Perlite, Roots Seem Thicker.Clones Move Faster.But Roots Become More Compelx An Less Healthy At The Edge`s Of Pot`s

Good experiment jangles, seen this done before but not done quite so precisely.

I'm thinking you'll find that straight coco will perform better, but only time will tell, im in the for ride