Cancel Culture

gaiusmarius · Aug 20, 2020

Microbeman said:
You may need to go back and read what you wrote that caused Xavier to post what you replied to. There seems a profound shortage of ability to follow logic, dialect and argument around here.

lol, why so cryptic? if you have an actual point to make, why not make it clearly. don't tell me to go back and read my own post to try and guess your meaning. why not just quote my words that you are disagreeing with and show everyone the error of my ways?

you seem to be stuck in some kind of emnitty towards me, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. thats why you can't actually say anything, just silly insinuations and personal judgments based on your imagination of what i said or believe. it really makes no logical sense in regards to my actual words posted in this thread.

your last few posts have had zero actual original content that adds in any way, to the debate. all you are doing is trying to start shit. well i ain't playing that game.

all the best.

Microbeman · Aug 20, 2020

gaiusmarius said:
lol, why so cryptic? if you have an actual point to make, why not make it clearly. don't tell me to go back and read my own post to try and guess your meaning. why not just quote my words that you are disagreeing with and show everyone the error of my ways?

you seem to be stuck in some kind of emnitty towards me, that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. thats why you can't actually say anything, just silly insinuations and personal judgments based on your imagination of what i said or believe. it really makes no logical sense in regards to my actual words posted in this thread.

your last few posts have had zero actual original content that adds in any way, to the debate. all you are doing is trying to start shit. well i ain't playing that game.

all the best.

If you wish; It is really quite simple and absolutely not what you surmise.

Posted by you
you see, its all about sides nowadays. it really doesnt matter what i actually post on a subject, some people have decided because i don't take the anti trump stance on EVERY issue i am pro trump, which is bolloks.

while the other side have mostly decided because i complain about Trumps foreign policy and crony capitalism, i must be supporting the democraps, which is also bolloks.

***********
Which caused this post by Xavier;
Will leave you to it. My argument had nothing to with trump and really very little to do with capitalism other than to whom these powers that be owe a duty.

****************
To which you replied;
if your read what i said i didnt deny what you said was true about private companies etc, what i was talking about is what i think should be done with google facebook and twitter.

corporations themselves are anti human and anti the planet, they are exploitive in their very nature, it's in their dna to exploit and pillage to the limit of the law and beyond when they can get away with it, or when the fines are so low that its profitable to break the rules.

if we want a more just society, we have to make purely profit based corporations illegal. they need to be for the common good or else let them be normal national companies subject to the same laws as any mum and pop business.

for the rest i can't see where there should be disagreement? do you think it's right for google to have a full monopoly on advertising? why should they be allowed to exploit their money and power to keep gathering more money and power by crushing all competition and buying out all inovations made by anyone trying to compete? do you realize the power they have over the information in the world? how can that lead anywhere but world wide coorporate tyranny?

split them all up into national entities or forget about freedome of thought, let alone speech and ideas, but over the long run, say good by to free humanity and say hello to world wide cooporate slavery.

if we don't split them up, they will keep gathering more and more power and money untill there will be no stopping them. already democratic governments in small nations tremble in fear of getting on the wrong side of google, twitter etc.

imagine the power, how can you not see the potential for total abuse? why in gods name would you want any corporation have so much power over what people see, read, think, buy, worry about and hear?

**************

So I pointed out;
And what pray tell does that have to do with trump and sides?

I happened to follow and agree with what Xavier stated. Where I posted my agreement seems to have got you twisted up. I did not realize there was a rule.

There is so much lack of following the flow of dialect in this forum so thus my second statement.

Anything else you have in mind is imaginary. I have not even posted in this forum for ages.

Teddybrae · Aug 21, 2020

I wondered what you think of the Social situation where you live? My England was Andy Capp and Woodbines and I suppose either a general societal hopelessness or a fawning to Royalty. But the UK is much browner now and more disparate Religiously speaking ... even the pop videos from the UK reflect those shifts.

So what 's it like for you outside the door of yr Apartment?

I think of yr Cockney mate too, the one that lives by the big park. (I 've forgotten his username! Temporarily I assure you!)
The Cockney culture, unaltered for centuries, influenced first by the Paki invasion and the Jamaican invasion and now I see so many eastern European names cropping up.

And Boris invited HOW MANY Honk Konk residents to move over?!

How does this affect you Boss? Are you able to emigrate to Australia (we may survive ...)?

Gypsy Nirvana said:
- When it gets to the point of many millions of people in the West not being able to feed/clothe/shelter or medicate - when the dollar, euro or pound in your pocket is devalued so much - that it is virtually worthless - when there is no business or employment to be had - when people cannot even afford communications - (wifi-cable-phone etc) - then you will see the desperation and the conflict that comes from it - whether that all happens in my lifetime or not - I can't be sure - and can only hope it never happens - but sure does look possible -

- growers might just be able to grow thru it - and survive - cannabis has always been a valuable crop - but what happens - when the power goes out? - Ekkkk <heavy church organ music>

Treevly · Aug 21, 2020

iwouldreaditallifitwerewritmoregooder

Gypsy Nirvana · Aug 21, 2020

- Time moves on - and things change Teddy - I used to read Andy Capp - in my Grandad's 'Daily Mirror' as a child - and he would smoke Capstan or Woodbines -

- London has been changing radically since the last war - and well over half of what were the resident families in 1950 have now moved away - either to the countryside - or abroad and many have become immigrants themselves to other nations - We see this phenomena called 'White Flight' - which is similar to what has been seen for many years in the USA - so making London browner as you state -

There are masses of multi-ethnic families now here - my own included - and many of them keep to just their own communities and don't like to mix much - so certain areas of London are more black/brown or white than others -

The Cockney Londoner's have been mostly dissipated as the dominant working class people - to be replaced by the Pakistani's/Bangladeshi's/Jamaicans - and several other ethnicities now - you are guaranteed to see BAME people - in London - every time you go out - making London more like major American cities every day -

- Since many of these new people are illegally in the country and from radically different societies - some with medieval religious indoctrination from birth - there is more crime and less security particularly for the English women and kids these days - when we have an unknown quantity of unknown people wandering around - kids don't play outside unsupervised - like we did when we were kids - its just not considered to be safe - and the distinct rise in violent/sexual crime year on year proves it - so more people leave London - as soon as they can afford to - and look for a more secure place -

- We have the same old over propagandized Royalty - like the nations on-going reality posh soap-opera - I tend to ignore most of it - since I am not pro-monarchy -

- in 2006 I emigrated to The Philippines - and went to make my life there - it was the 2nd time I had been an immigrant - the 1st time was in 1977 when I emigrated to the USA (and left 5 years later) -
neither the USA nor The Philippines worked out for me - and that's now why I'm back here in the UK - right here where I started -

- Back in the 80's I was based in Hong Kong for a few years - and saw how industrious and educated the HK Chinese were - so I don't see a problem with bringing a bunch of them to the UK - would probably give a big boost to the UK economy overall -

- As for emigrating to Australia - well, they wouldn't even give me a tourist visa when I applied over 30 years ago - because I got busted with a bit of hashish in 1985 -

Teddybrae said:
I wondered what you think of the Social situation where you live? My England was Andy Capp and Woodbines and I suppose either a general societal hopelessness or a fawning to Royalty. But the UK is much browner now and more disparate Religiously speaking ... even the pop videos from the UK reflect those shifts.

So what 's it like for you outside the door of yr Apartment?

I think of yr Cockney mate too, the one that lives by the big park. (I 've forgotten his username! Temporarily I assure you!)
The Cockney culture, unaltered for centuries, influenced first by the Paki invasion and the Jamaican invasion and now I see so many eastern European names cropping up.

And Boris invited HOW MANY Honk Konk residents to move over?!

How does this affect you Boss? Are you able to emigrate to Australia (we may survive ...)?

Gry · Aug 22, 2020

Powerful testimony.

Guest · Aug 22, 2020

Connections.

White Beard · Aug 22, 2020

gaiusmarius said:
i disagree about facebook and twitter, they are monopolies number 1.

number 2 they are the new public square. there is no other twitter where people can go speek feely to the same numbers of people. twitter and facebook should be looked at like a public utility of the modern age.

number 3, those controvertial postings is what twitter and face book live from, their algorythims promote that shit to your feed taylor made to engage you as long as possible.

their banning is often agenda driven, based on the principle of cancel culture. this can be seen by the constant revision and lengthening of the list of banned subjects and words.

Facebook and Twitter are indeed monopolies of a sort: they have no functional competition.

I believe I understand what you mean about the ‘public square’, after a fashion: with the rise of WalMart and “mall America” from the destruction of small-town business, and the packing of towns and cities with private businesses, there no longer IS a functional public square in the US...which is why protests must necessarily obstruct streets and sidewalks, for example: there’s literally no other meaningful “public” space in which to assemble. Malls, etc fail as public spaces because THEY ARE *NOT* public spaces; they are private property and run as the owners/managers wish to run them. Until such time as they are ‘nationalized’ and managed by and for the public use, they will continue to be captive spaces in which freedoms of all sorts may be curtailed...which is to say, they are hopelessly inadequate as “public space”.

Your ‘number 3’ is a perfect example of WHY they fail as public spaces, but let’s not attribute either magic or intelligence to algorithms - they are neither.

I definitely have issues with the following:

their banning is often agenda driven, based on the principle of cancel culture. this can be seen by the constant revision and lengthening of the list of banned subjects and words.

“Banning” is as close as these private spaces get to any sort of accountability; it may well be agenda-driven, but simply saying that doesn’t make a point for you - nor does claiming a ‘driving principle’ of “cancel culture”. It seems clear to me from this and other comments that “cancel culture” is a thing you’ve adopted from others - specifically from people who believe in rudeness over manners: it’s an artificial target manufactured by persons and points of view that make large swaths of individuals become fed up with (sick and tired of) a variety of generally offensive or dishonest public behaviors.

Example: there are some on our ICMag home who I ignore. Not because they ‘disagree’ with me, or I with them, but because taunting, insults, serial repetition, refusal to listen and respond to others, are *not* conversation but are in fact ways of shutting down conversation.

As you yourself have noted, continually attempting to communicate with those who aren’t interested in communicating is wearing, it is annoying, it tries my patience just as it tries the patience of anyone. Once, we had social rules of civilized discourse, but that was when we had functional public spaces. Those are gone now, and those rules have left a gap that is being filled by a general determination to get away with whatever one can get away with...and the more aggressive, the least considerate, the least communicative, the more outrageous, the better. Apparently.

People who are sick and tired of *only* hearing bullshit and insult from Quarter X will clear out of Quarter X, and *stay* clear of it. Because life’s too short to put up with the endless imposition of bullshit, rudeness, dishonesty, whatever. That’s your “cancel culture”: ‘fuck this shit, I’m *out*!’

Also known as “freedom of association”...which is also the freedom *not*to associate, as you surely must know if you think about it. Then again, it’s a popular trope among the “news sources” you usually post, so you probably consider it some deeply disturbed fault in the psyche of “The Left”(tm) - but I rather hope I’m wrong about that.

It must be very strange to try and understand the political history of social movements in a foreign country, from outside, using idea sources that citizens of that nation do not credit the way that you credit them. I suspect it leads to you feeling misunderstood, when you might do better to consider the possibility that you are misunderstanding and trying to hold others responsible for what you misunderstand.

Like ”cancel culture”. You cite “the principle of cancel culture”...but I don’t think that means what you seem to think it means. Rather than keep going, I’d rather invite you to express what you believe that “principle” is, where you acquired it, and what you believe is the “agendaL that it “drives”. Please elaborate; feel free to offer exemplary sources.

flylowgethigh · Aug 22, 2020

St. Phatty said:
24 hour Facebook ban for criticizing Israel.

that might be one version of Cancel Culture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtGZBL5BmZE

found this video on Youtube - very well done - explanation of how full auto works on an AR15/AR10. enough info to build your own if you have a machine shop.

A shooter with a good deer rifle is a lot more dangerous than some guy running around with a full auto conversion on a semi gun. A bent piece of wire can make an AR go full auto, and youtube has (had?) the video.

gaiusmarius · Aug 22, 2020

White Beard said:
Facebook and Twitter are indeed monopolies of a sort: they have no functional competition.

I believe I understand what you mean about the ‘public square’, after a fashion: with the rise of WalMart and “mall America” from the destruction of small-town business, and the packing of towns and cities with private businesses, there no longer IS a functional public square in the US...which is why protests must necessarily obstruct streets and sidewalks, for example: there’s literally no other meaningful “public” space in which to assemble. Malls, etc fail as public spaces because THEY ARE *NOT* public spaces; they are private property and run as the owners/managers wish to run them. Until such time as they are ‘nationalized’ and managed by and for the public use, they will continue to be captive spaces in which freedoms of all sorts may be curtailed...which is to say, they are hopelessly inadequate as “public space”.

Your ‘number 3’ is a perfect example of WHY they fail as public spaces, but let’s not attribute either magic or intelligence to algorithms - they are neither.

I definitely have issues with the following:

“Banning” is as close as these private spaces get to any sort of accountability; it may well be agenda-driven, but simply saying that doesn’t make a point for you - nor does claiming a ‘driving principle’ of “cancel culture”. It seems clear to me from this and other comments that “cancel culture” is a thing you’ve adopted from others - specifically from people who believe in rudeness over manners: it’s an artificial target manufactured by persons and points of view that make large swaths of individuals become fed up with (sick and tired of) a variety of generally offensive or dishonest public behaviors.

Example: there are some on our ICMag home who I ignore. Not because they ‘disagree’ with me, or I with them, but because taunting, insults, serial repetition, refusal to listen and respond to others, are *not* conversation but are in fact ways of shutting down conversation.

As you yourself have noted, continually attempting to communicate with those who aren’t interested in communicating is wearing, it is annoying, it tries my patience just as it tries the patience of anyone. Once, we had social rules of civilized discourse, but that was when we had functional public spaces. Those are gone now, and those rules have left a gap that is being filled by a general determination to get away with whatever one can get away with...and the more aggressive, the least considerate, the least communicative, the more outrageous, the better. Apparently.

People who are sick and tired of *only* hearing bullshit and insult from Quarter X will clear out of Quarter X, and *stay* clear of it. Because life’s too short to put up with the endless imposition of bullshit, rudeness, dishonesty, whatever. That’s your “cancel culture”: ‘fuck this shit, I’m *out*!’

Also known as “freedom of association”...which is also the freedom *not*to associate, as you surely must know if you think about it. Then again, it’s a popular trope among the “news sources” you usually post, so you probably consider it some deeply disturbed fault in the psyche of “The Left”(tm) - but I rather hope I’m wrong about that.

It must be very strange to try and understand the political history of social movements in a foreign country, from outside, using idea sources that citizens of that nation do not credit the way that you credit them. I suspect it leads to you feeling misunderstood, when you might do better to consider the possibility that you are misunderstanding and trying to hold others responsible for what you misunderstand.

Like ”cancel culture”. You cite “the principle of cancel culture”...but I don’t think that means what you seem to think it means. Rather than keep going, I’d rather invite you to express what you believe that “principle” is, where you acquired it, and what you believe is the “agendaL that it “drives”. Please elaborate; feel free to offer exemplary sources.

interesting that you deny the phenomenon of cancel culture.

there has been so many examples of people being banned for having the wrong sort of opinions. actually one of the victims of cancel culture recently got voted in to congress, seems like the US citizens don't like the idea of facebook and google being able to silence people. by banning them from youtube, facebook and twitter.

i know you will probably say, ah yes, but no one should be forced to listen to alex jones, or his like. but thats a false comparison, as no one was ever forced to look at or listen their content. no, they made the decission that certain people must be silenced and often they change the rules so they can ban people. they are in fact taking away the freedom of the other users to watch and read what ever the hell they want to.

those places are not free markets of ideas, as they should be, when they have the power to arbritarily ban and change the rules when ever they feel like it.

there are many good people that are warning about this phenomenon and even people like Chomsky think its a dangerous new trend. but he and all the hundreds who signed the anti cancel culture letter are all imagining it, even the lefties on the list. yes?

imagine if i would just bann anyone who made comments i thought were bad or wrong? but its worse, as here you can always start again, while the monopolies don't give second chances, no matter how many millions of people want to watch the content.

if there were rules that were the same for everyone, it be one thing, but they are constantly changing the rules and adding new ways to get in trouble which they then subjectively enforce according to the biases of the censors and the biased fact checking orgs they now apply selectively.

totally agree about public square and malls and many other public private spaces where you can't have all your rights anymore. lots of that in London too apparently. you can walk through spending money, but don't think about holding a sign or passing out flyers.

Microbeman · Aug 22, 2020

IMO twitter and fb are internet trends, not really public squares. If people wish to discuss a subject forbidden by twitter or fb, it is not that difficult to build an internet platform to facilitate discussion, which many do.

Cancel culture is also a little trendy to talk about and be a victim of, as is the use of the word, 'narrative'.

nepalnt21 · Aug 22, 2020

i love how trump was like "the libs have been playing that game for a long time, well two can play"

talking about goodyear...

like conservatives never boycott things?

nike comes to mind

gaiusmarius · Aug 22, 2020

nepalnt21 said:
i love how trump was like "the libs have been playing that game for a long time, well two can play"

talking about goodyear...

like conservatives never boycott things?

nike comes to mind

are you comparing a boycot, with being banned from Twitter, fb for your content? i always thought they were different.

boycots are done by masses of individuals to corporations and countries if those masses feel the coorporation or country deserves the boycot for their actions. no one makes laws about it, its an individual right to decide where to spend your money.

what FB etc do is the opposite, these corporations arbitrarily decide to ban individuals for their words, not their actions. also they are corporations with monopolies deciding who can and can't use their services, when the whole reason they became so big in the first place is because they used to be real free speech platforms. but as they became monopolies they slowly but surely decided to become publishers instead of free speech platforms for everyone.

hence their monopoly should be torn up and cut down.

buiding alternatives is all very well, but they buy out and shut down anyone that tries.

nepalnt21 · Aug 22, 2020

i think cancel culture isn't JUST twitter and facebook deleting posts and banning people, it includes boycotts.

nepalnt21 · Aug 22, 2020

what about gubment tearing down tik tok, which is an up and coming public forum for younger gen?

do you agree with that?

Switcher56 · Aug 22, 2020

nepalnt21 said:
what about gubment tearing down tik tok, which is an up and coming public forum for younger gen?

do you agree with that?

Yes! If, (and that is a big if) there is security implications involved with the platform.

BTW... it's spelled g o v e r n m e n t!

Treevly · Aug 22, 2020

weareunlearningtypingenglish

Cannavore · Aug 22, 2020

The internet should be a public utility.

Facebook Twitter etc should be nationalized or broken up.

nepalnt21 · Aug 22, 2020

y tf u guize kare bout my inglish if u's git ma drift...

if i'm writing an essay, that's one thing... put up the money for me to publish and i'll use all dee correctical grammar and shit you needs me to... till then, hang wit ma slang.

Switcher56 · Aug 22, 2020

Je n'ai pas compris un hostie de mots que tu mas dis!

Cancel Culture

me

The Logical Gardener

Teddybrae

Active member

Recalcitrant Reprobate -

Well-known member

Guest

Active member

Non-growing Lurker

me

The Logical Gardener

FRRRRRResh!

me

FRRRRRResh!

FRRRRRResh!

Comfortably numb!

Active member

Well-known member

FRRRRRResh!

Comfortably numb!