-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
Diary PCBuds mini-grow
- Thread starter PCBuds
- Start date
I'm really not sure about the grease. In it's native applications, there is quite a bit of pressure to displace it. A 3 phase contactor has 6 contacts to share the applied force.
A bit back, someone with droopy plants said higher EC fixed it. It was a fleeting post, but stuck with me. Recently mine were dropping in the last hour. I then noticed they had stopped, just after I started using a bit more P and my RH had come up. I hadn't lowered the illumination level either. In fact, some of my tops were just ~75mm from a QB, looking great, at a whopping 2400ppfd. Lower canopy areas are around 600ppfd. I have been lazy with my training... but the point is my RH was up nearly 5% and they were getting more P and light, and stopped drooping. So the fix was in the P or the RH. Which was about 60%. Similar stage to yours. Really filling out, and making more humidity.
I can't believe you have had the cat since 1980. She hasn't aged a day.
A bit back, someone with droopy plants said higher EC fixed it. It was a fleeting post, but stuck with me. Recently mine were dropping in the last hour. I then noticed they had stopped, just after I started using a bit more P and my RH had come up. I hadn't lowered the illumination level either. In fact, some of my tops were just ~75mm from a QB, looking great, at a whopping 2400ppfd. Lower canopy areas are around 600ppfd. I have been lazy with my training... but the point is my RH was up nearly 5% and they were getting more P and light, and stopped drooping. So the fix was in the P or the RH. Which was about 60%. Similar stage to yours. Really filling out, and making more humidity.
I can't believe you have had the cat since 1980. She hasn't aged a day.
PCBuds
Well-known member
I think I'm going to go for it.
I'm sure that the 3 phases are isolated from each other, and even if they "leak" a little bit, it's only dealing with 20 VDC and 4.5 amps.
I've cleaned up and greased all kinds of contacts and connections on my car.
Greasing them all from the factory would have prevented them from corroding, but that wasn't done.
I just took a picture of her at 5 minutes before the lights came on.
She's looking really eager to get started with her day.
I don't know what to think?
I've had two outdoor plants right beside each other and one would fall asleep, the other other one didn't?
I'm not going to worry about it, I'll just see what happens.
I think I'm going to leave everything the same for now, then turn up the lights more when she's taller and further into flowering.
I did everything exactly the same as far as I know with this plant as that big one I grew.
I don't know why it reacted so differently?
(I don't remember if that one got sleepy?)
She looks pretty darn good for a 41 year old cat. Lol
I think you misunderstood what both me and f-e trying ro say about grease and contact surfaces. Which, btw, are diferent from the kind of contacts the grease is made to protect. Maybe that is why there's so much confusion, and you are ready to apply an insulator layer on a surface that's designed to create contact as best as it is possible? Bad contacts and high amps is what starts the fires, usually, you know.. The kind of contacts that need protecting, trust me, are protected from the factory, by either coating them in nonoxidable surfaces, or by coatings similar to that grease. They can't coat the surfaces where the contactor works because the coating would burn or be crushed or taken off by the action of the solenoid. So they use the purest copper possible, to make sure the contact is as good as it can be. If you want to imreinvent the wheel, I'd sugest picking another domain, not one that is so dangerous when you don't understand what you are doing. Or why you are doing it. Just cleaning the contacts should be enaugh for at least as much work as it did before.
PCBuds
Well-known member
f-e do you think putting dielectric grease on the contacts of the contactor could be dangerous?
My contacts right now could be dangerous because I don't have good contact which adds resistance to the contact, creating heat.
But I only have 10 Watts running through it.
If I had 40 amps and 120 volts running through the contacts, they would spark and clean themselves.
My contacts right now could be dangerous because I don't have good contact which adds resistance to the contact, creating heat.
But I only have 10 Watts running through it.
If I had 40 amps and 120 volts running through the contacts, they would spark and clean themselves.
All this talk when you could get 3 x the smallest AC SSR's out there, switch off the PSU's directly and be done with it. No sparks, no danger, and the best design as safety and efficiency goes from all the options we discussed. Just because you dont understand that those psu's have no problem with being switched. They are switching power supplies, ffs. It doesnt matter if you switch them externally or they switch off internally, it's same stress on the components. Heat killes them faster, not power cycling. Yet you are here, trying to keep them "heated" for longer life, rather than just switching them off when you don't need them. I bet 10 mins researching how modern switching supplies work, especially when low voltage and amps are drawn from them, would stop this circus.
If you didn't get a made for DC contactor, and it can do A/C, that would be safer and better design as well to just use the contactor on the psu input and not output. Actually, I am not even sure your contactor is rated for DC. Does it say DC ratings on it anywhere?
If you didn't get a made for DC contactor, and it can do A/C, that would be safer and better design as well to just use the contactor on the psu input and not output. Actually, I am not even sure your contactor is rated for DC. Does it say DC ratings on it anywhere?
PCBuds
Well-known member
OK, I'll just clean the contacts. No grease. (but I still don't think it's a safety issue.)
My PSUs are 400 Watts each (although I only run them at half power) so I would want an SSR that has a high rating.
There is some danger, because they do get hot and some come with heat sinks if they are to be used at high power.
If I had a MeanWell LED driver or PSU, I would have no problem turning them on and off.
But I've got cheap Chinese knock-offs with shitty build quality.
A bunch of people wrote reviews on them and said that they failed after just a couple of months.
Luckily they just died and didn't start on fire.
I had one that failed because of a cold solder joint on a capacitor.
f-e helped me figure it out and I bought a new capacitor for it, but it was too far gone and the new capacitor didn't help.
The solder joint was slowly burning my circuit board and dripped liquid solder onto the bottom of the case.
That was a safety issue that luckily blew a fuse before it started on fire.
(there's pictures and stuff in my thread somewhere.)
My PSUs spark like crazy when I plug them in, so they have huge surge current as the capacitors charge and such.
That's good for my contactor, because it would keep my contacts clean, but I don't like that surge blasting though my PSUs.
That's when things pop.
I'll just replace my contactor and clean my old one to use as a spare.
Possibly?
But I don't read, write or speak Chinese. Lol
My PSUs are 400 Watts each (although I only run them at half power) so I would want an SSR that has a high rating.
There is some danger, because they do get hot and some come with heat sinks if they are to be used at high power.
If I had a MeanWell LED driver or PSU, I would have no problem turning them on and off.
But I've got cheap Chinese knock-offs with shitty build quality.
A bunch of people wrote reviews on them and said that they failed after just a couple of months.
Luckily they just died and didn't start on fire.
I had one that failed because of a cold solder joint on a capacitor.
f-e helped me figure it out and I bought a new capacitor for it, but it was too far gone and the new capacitor didn't help.
The solder joint was slowly burning my circuit board and dripped liquid solder onto the bottom of the case.
That was a safety issue that luckily blew a fuse before it started on fire.
(there's pictures and stuff in my thread somewhere.)
My PSUs spark like crazy when I plug them in, so they have huge surge current as the capacitors charge and such.
That's good for my contactor, because it would keep my contacts clean, but I don't like that surge blasting though my PSUs.
That's when things pop.
I'll just replace my contactor and clean my old one to use as a spare.
Possibly?
But I don't read, write or speak Chinese. Lol
Actually, you would need a much bigger ssr on the output rather than input, cause they are rated for amps, not volts, or watts. A 5A ssr without any heatsink can easily handle 400w at 110VAC. Or 2.5 A rating if used on 220-240VAC. Now if you want to control the output, you need DC ssr (or contactor), which are more expensive usually, and more expensive for same rsting as an AC one. If your handles both AC and DC (which I doubt), I think you'll find the DC ratings and much lower than AC ratings. Using one that you can't even read the ratings or if it's made to handle DC, is not a good design in my opinion. Also, with ssr's, the heat is given out when pulsed in quick succesion, so even if you had tens of amps, most ssr would not heat up on simple switching. Not even enaugh to feel it. But when using pwm, or pulses, that's when you would need additional cooling capacity, cause then the switching goes on thousands or tens of thousands of times a second (just like inside your psu's), so heat adds up in case of the ssrs. So in your case, a ssr would not be just safer, but much more efficient. Cause a contactor can use tens of mA to mantain coupling, while a ssr can be well under a mA. I sorry to stress this out so much, but I think you should at least know where you are making mistakes, even if you don't care.
2400ppfd on that meter is 80,000 lux
10w can about power a soldering iron, but the contact can't be the only resistance in the circuit, so won't ever see that. It should be pretty damn heat proof tbh. I have seen them crumble but the load of other-worldly.
They split across the middle, just above the coil. Couple of push in tabs each side. It's not really serviceable, but they can usually be opened and the coils swapped. If your determined.
I think an AC SSR can switch DC without issue. Google it, but I'm quite sure. They contain two diacs side by side, as a diac is a DC direction device, and you have two directions to go with AC. I guess there are other construction methods, but the datasheet for the device should have the basics. Of course in AC circuits each diac would have a 50% duty cycle.
You could just move the contactor to the AC side. Have all 3 phases failed? you only need one.
There really shouldn't be any need, but if you did switch the AC with an SSR then a zero cross type would be good. If you don't know, zero cross switching is talking about switching the power as the AC wave crosses zero. So the power is switched on, when there is no power. This beats switching the power randomly, which could be at the peak voltage. That is much more shocking to cold kit without any magnetic fields present around the coils at the time. BIG inrush, that kit is designed to take.
The contactor is a cjx2 made by shanghai xinai electronic co. ltd
It is an AC contactor, and as such only carries AC ratings on the label. More will be online. It's a very common contactor. I just got there name off one on my desk. Apparently it's been sat here since 2014 lol I got the jzc4 22 which is a 4 pole, but two are NO and two are NC. I wanted all 4 poles to be NO. These are still handy though, if you want to switch between lights and heaters.
10w can about power a soldering iron, but the contact can't be the only resistance in the circuit, so won't ever see that. It should be pretty damn heat proof tbh. I have seen them crumble but the load of other-worldly.
They split across the middle, just above the coil. Couple of push in tabs each side. It's not really serviceable, but they can usually be opened and the coils swapped. If your determined.
I think an AC SSR can switch DC without issue. Google it, but I'm quite sure. They contain two diacs side by side, as a diac is a DC direction device, and you have two directions to go with AC. I guess there are other construction methods, but the datasheet for the device should have the basics. Of course in AC circuits each diac would have a 50% duty cycle.
You could just move the contactor to the AC side. Have all 3 phases failed? you only need one.
There really shouldn't be any need, but if you did switch the AC with an SSR then a zero cross type would be good. If you don't know, zero cross switching is talking about switching the power as the AC wave crosses zero. So the power is switched on, when there is no power. This beats switching the power randomly, which could be at the peak voltage. That is much more shocking to cold kit without any magnetic fields present around the coils at the time. BIG inrush, that kit is designed to take.
The contactor is a cjx2 made by shanghai xinai electronic co. ltd
It is an AC contactor, and as such only carries AC ratings on the label. More will be online. It's a very common contactor. I just got there name off one on my desk. Apparently it's been sat here since 2014 lol I got the jzc4 22 which is a 4 pole, but two are NO and two are NC. I wanted all 4 poles to be NO. These are still handy though, if you want to switch between lights and heaters.
No, AC ssrs won't switch dc, and dc ones can't switch AC. As it is with contactors, ssrs shoukd be chosen not only by rating and input power type, but by the output power type as well.
You would need AC-AC ssr with a rating of 5A or more to control the input part of the psus.
Just like you should have bought an AC-DC contactor with a power rating of 25A of more to switch the power on the output (DC) side.
Since you bought a contactor that is probably not even rated for the job you are using it, moving it to the input side would use it in the intended way and within the stated ratings.
SSR's would help you save like 5W an hour every hour the contactor is used as well, but you seem not so concerned about saving power, so maybe leave that for next time, when the new contactor fails.
You would need AC-AC ssr with a rating of 5A or more to control the input part of the psus.
Just like you should have bought an AC-DC contactor with a power rating of 25A of more to switch the power on the output (DC) side.
Since you bought a contactor that is probably not even rated for the job you are using it, moving it to the input side would use it in the intended way and within the stated ratings.
SSR's would help you save like 5W an hour every hour the contactor is used as well, but you seem not so concerned about saving power, so maybe leave that for next time, when the new contactor fails.
PCBuds
Well-known member
I'm determined enough to take it apart and see what makes it tick anyway.
I've got all the necessary precision instruments. Lol
All three are acting up.
Sometimes one won't close, sometimes 2 or all three.
Now I've got one that connects but won't deliver full current.
I could probably disconnect my lights from it and hook up a hair dryer to clear the contacts?
But I'll just swap in the new one and take apart the old one.
Awww...
You didn't tell me about the 4 pole option.
That's what I want. Lol
PCBuds
Well-known member
I'm sure that my contactor is adequate to deal with my current demands.
It may actually have kept its contacts clean with more current going through it.
It wasn't until I turned my current down to less than 2 amps per pole that it started acting up.
I'll just buy an SSR next time.
Luckily the contactor didn't have a complete failure.
I can still work around it.
And I grow Autoflowers.
I can just bypass the contactor and shut the whole grow off when I go to bed.
She can sleep when I do. Lol
I will give that post a like. It certainly sent me' back to school.
Triacs. Wired as I thought, but they won't switch off without a zero cross.
I have done nothing with solid state relays. They are newer than me.
PCBuds
Well-known member
I don't mind wasting a few Watts but I didn't like wasting 200 Watts for those two 100 Watt bulbs to heat the closet, and it really sucked to waste $30 a month turning on my AC all summer long.
That's why I like heating my closet with my LED strips, but my latest plant had issues with that level of heating. Lol
Some day soon I'll be turning the strips up.
I have a 10 Watt bulb lighting my back porch that I leave on all the time.
I can replace the light switch with a timer for $35, but it would take at least 6 years for it to pay for itself, and it would take me half that time to try to program the damn thing. Lol
PCBuds
Well-known member
Yeah, me too!!
I'm older than the dirt I grow with. Lol
EDIT: That may not be true.
I'm probably not as old as the coconuts that made my coir, and my perlite was probably not made that long ago.
The peat moss is thousands of years old though, so on average, I may not be as old as my dirt?
I'm going to grab a handful of dirt from my backyard and throw it in my planter to verify my statement.
Lol
Then I'm officially growing in soil, so I will know where to set my PH. Lol
PCBuds
Well-known member
Well, I like how I could share the entire load across four separate contacts.
I've got my PSU on the left running through one contact so both meters read 0 when that contact fails.
The amp on the right is separated between two contacts and the numbers are just weird.
I thought that it was the connections on the wires so I removed the wires, cleaned them, greased them and reinstalled them.
But the numbers were still weird. That's when I realized it was dirty contacts.
When I started getting 0's I knew that I had no contact.
BTW,.. Thanks for talking me into buying the meters.
My multi-meter is too cumbersome to use to check the currents, and it kept blowing fuses when I kept shorting it out. Lol
My electronics teacher made us always test current across a switch so that we don't blow up his Ammeters.
