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Breeding a Cambodian auto

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Hi again,
Thanks to the members of this forum I found my genetics to create my own cambodian auto.
The seeds are landrace cambodian sativa and siberian ruderalis, both from khalifa genetics. I also have Mekong haze from delta 9 Labs, and later on I will work with those and gypsy's Khmer gold, but the khalifa seeds are more recent with good germination, so I start with those.
I will try pollen from the ruderalis, as it only has asian genes, it is very tall, hardy, sativa pheno and requires little fertilization. It is also resistant to cold and humid conditions, good for my outdoors climate at 60N.
Another reason for the rudy is that I prefer not to cross the Cambodian with a modern auto, as its genes would be all over the place both geographical ly and trait-wise. I want the end product to be asian landrace with just auto genes added, not a cambodian indica gelato wedding gorilla sherbert.

Any thoughts? My project is firstly to create a plant that is as close to the first ever weed I tried, a trippy, psychedelic local sativa while traveling in cambodia twenty years ago, and trying to keep it as purely cambodian sativa while able to finish outdoors at 60N.

My plan is male rudy pollen and cambo mother, and selecting out the lowest potency f1. Then breeding the higher thc f1 down to f4 to lock in auto and then backcross to the Cambodian mother. Repeat to f4.
How many times do you recommend backcrossing?
I have heard some state more than once is unnecessary. Will repeated backcrossing gradually increase cambodian gene pool to near 100 per cent plus auto genes, or will it be a crap shot each time and impossible to select for high potency, autoflowering, sativa structure and hardiness?
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
If the ruderalis brings down potency too much, I have other pollen options. I have potent sativa mix autos that already have been bred in a northern climate many generations, and I have Danish early photo strains that also work well. I can also go the opposite route and use pollen from the regular Mekong haze and pollinate some of the super potent feminized modern autos. I have several options here.
Most modern potent autos I fear are more prone to suffer in the cold and humid outdoors here, though. My slightly less potent Danish hybrids and the rudy have no problem finishing here.
Do you agree hardiness is slightly more important when selecting an auto, or would you rather use a thc powerhouse as best starting point for decent potency end result and just relying on the autmatic flowering to make sure the Cambodian finishes outdoors if it is started early?

Also how much do you think the type of auto matters if back crossing several times trying to mostly just add the auto trait?
If back crossing more than once is pointless, I want to cross it with something as similar as the Cambodian as possible. If several repeated backcrosses gradually will select out most of the father genetics, I guess I could use which ever auto I want, but opting for the most potent to start with.
What are good options for autos? I have been suggested la buena hierba's auto haze. And Deimos and Magnum. Good suggestions.
I also have Kc45. That could be a cool cross, as the Kc45 gets huge.
A super auto with thai genetics would also be interesting. So would also Ace zamaldelica auto..
 

chilliwilli

Waterboy
why did you choose the siberian rudi from khalifa? from the description it sounds like the one from the real seed company.

i would try to make the cambodian auto. don't think that a cross could keep that cambo high unless it got a lot of cambo in it what leads to a too long flower time.
but also crossing with the rudi will alter the high a lot so you might have to back cross and repeat the auto breeding several times.

also would try both cambo x rudi and rudi x cambo since not a lot of people have done this and u only know for sure if u try it.

sounds like a project for the next years.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
Chiliwilly, I bought the rudi from khalifa as I already would get the Cambodian from them. The rudi sure looks very similar to the one from rsc looking at their descriptions, yes.
I am sure to try various options, using pollen from both the rudi and the cambo to see what happens. The khalifa cambodian is feminized, so cambodian pollen would have to come later from the Mekong haze, also a pure landrace, but older than khalifa 's and poorer germ rate.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
And this sure is a project for many years ahead..
Many setbacks and changes thoughout are to be expected.
So you believe several backcrosses might help to maintain mostly cambodian traits? Any strains suggestions other than the rudi?
 

chilliwilli

Waterboy
once tried to make autoflowering seeds and all of the reg autos didn't germ but i had luck and got a full blown male from some fem muay thai seeds. i think that was the 1:10000 chance. it was dev a male since it showed absolute no signs of female flowers.
only tried the offsprings with the seedsman auto white widow on my balcony and they were no auto. got about 2:1 fem:male ratio, nice mellow sativa but dev no thai high.

so i think if u want that cambo high u have to create an auto cambo ibl

or try to get some reeferman seeds nigerian nightmare and try crossing. never tried the nm myselfe but they should keep on flowering once flowering is triggered.
so a clone from veg(24/0) switched to 12/12 for some time should finish flowering even when put back to 24/0.
 

brickweeder

Well-known member
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]teide, looking forward to you project.
[/FONT]


why did you choose the siberian rudi from khalifa? from the description it sounds like the one from the real seed company...


I've been noticing an increasing number of breeders that are offering landrace seeds that sound exactly like the RSC offerings. Not only are the names the same, even the sources are the same. It looks like breeders are buying RSC packs, doing a bit of selective pollen chucking, then offering up those seeds as landrace seeds bred by them. The Siberian Rudi example is a good one...I hadn;t seen the khalifa offerings, but I did see one offered by another prominent spanish landrace breeder that reads like a duplicate of the RSC offering (that company also has a lot of others that sound a lot like RSC offerings). I don't know if its just coincidence, but I for one will make an effort to purchase landrace seeds from RSC rather than others because I get the sense other seedbanks are just selling RSC reproductions.
 

gorilla ganja

Well-known member
My plan is male rudy pollen and cambo mother, and selecting out the lowest potency f1. Then breeding the higher thc f1 down to f4 to lock in auto and then backcross to the Cambodian mother. Repeat to f4.
How many times do you recommend backcrossing?
I have heard some state more than once is unnecessary. Will repeated backcrossing gradually increase cambodian gene pool to near 100 per cent plus auto genes, or will it be a crap shot each time and impossible to select for high potency, autoflowering, sativa structure and hardiness?

Backcrossing to the Cambodian will increase the Cambodian genes every time. The more you do it the less the Siberian genes will be present. It's a long process but I think you are on a good path.

Peace GG
 

chilliwilli

Waterboy
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]teide, looking forward to you project.
[/FONT]
I've been noticing an increasing number of breeders that are offering landrace seeds that sound exactly like the RSC offerings. Not only are the names the same, even the sources are the same. It looks like breeders are buying RSC packs, doing a bit of selective pollen chucking, then offering up those seeds as landrace seeds bred by them. The Siberian Rudi example is a good one...I hadn;t seen the khalifa offerings, but I did see one offered by another prominent spanish landrace breeder that reads like a duplicate of the RSC offering (that company also has a lot of others that sound a lot like RSC offerings). I don't know if its just coincidence, but I for one will make an effort to purchase landrace seeds from RSC rather than others because I get the sense other seedbanks are just selling RSC reproductions.

have mixed feelings about that. on the one hand its using someone else work and selling at yours. on the other hands it's a step further in the breeding what might help alot.

rsc also offers further breed stock if u read some descriptions. like the lebanese.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
I read on their websites that both khalifa and rsc have reveived their siberian ruderalis from 'the Russian landrace bureau' so probably neither Company has hand picked those particular seeds themselves. Khalifa gave taken their seeds a bit further, three generations of open pollination, culling hermies and weaker plants. Don't see anything seriously wrong in this particular example. Both companies work with preserving the same seeds, both have received them from the same local source. Neither claim to have hand picked the seeds themselves. Of course, one may have just bought the seeds from the other. Still, credit is given to the original source.
 

chilliwilli

Waterboy
was ordering some seeds for a friend today and stumbled about kali china from ace and got myself 5 fem seeds. its a indica dom line with about 25% kali mist and 75% China Yunnan indica but should give a sativa type high. so i will try to cross them to the kerala chellakutti i plan to grow this year to bring down the extreme flower time without changing the sativa high.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
That sounds like a very good idea, chillliwilly.
I have thought about the same myself. Kerala chellakutti has a ridiculously long flowering period!
I would like to try it, but it needs space and patience.. Thinking of buying it myself. From Ace, khalifa or rsc, they all have it. Where did you get yours?

Ace kali hybrids are top notch seeds. Dubi talks highly of their Kali China. Interesting flavor, or unique organoleptic qualities, as he calls it. Shortser flowering, but pure sativa high in an indica structure, good call! I have those seeds but not grown them out yet.
I also have thai Chi, which has thai added, and so the flowering is a bit longer.
The kali china and thai Chi were bought for the kali mist in them, claimed by Simon of serious seeds to contain cambodian. I thought of the kali crosses as a way of securing some cambodian in my auto hybrid, before I managed to score true landrace seeds. I also have dr. Krippling kali hybrid seeds for the same reason, and a y griega in flowering at the moment, also containing kali.
I am sure crossed or not, your kali china are sure to be quality, and the indian pure sativa must shine through nicely in that cross if you decide to do it. I would love to see the result!
 

chilliwilli

Waterboy
from khalifa but via the ace hompage. also have kullu, kerala gold and sheelawathi in my fridge but decided to try the chellakutti first because they are p2.
i think i will plant them under 11/13 and bend them in vertical screens after sexing so i don't use my whole growspace.
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
So now I've received the cambodian seeds from Delta9. I have just put some seeds in water. Mekong haze reg, khalifa cambodian feminized and Kc45 reg. The siberian rudy seeds are in the freezer. Let's see what crosses I will be making onwards. The project has started!
 
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teide

Well-known member
Veteran
When I need plenty of plants later on, for open pollination and all the pheno selection, what is the best way of growing out all the plants? Solo cups, what size? More than one seed per cup? Is it better growing all seeds in one container? I think a seed run doesn't require much soil. I just want seeds. When selecting from f2 I just want to find the auto flowering individuals. Later on in f3 and f4 I might need more root space and grow female to maturity for a proper impression, but maybe not so much in the earlier stages?
 

chilliwilli

Waterboy
Hard to say. Smaller cups means more manageable plants but also more work like watering every day, maybe twice in the end.

Also would not skimp nutewise. Should be enough for the motherplant to charge all the seeds up for their first 14d of life. Also think that overfeeding won't do good for seed development.

I will go for some organic soilmix. Made already this one https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7548410&postcount=1 but use this only for the kali china. The chellakutti will get a lighter mix.

Had no good experience with 2 plants in one small pot because one will overgrow the other.
 

ngakpa

Active member
Veteran
I read on their websites that both khalifa and rsc have reveived their siberian ruderalis from 'the Russian landrace bureau' so probably neither Company has hand picked those particular seeds themselves.

hi - yes - and other than openly stating on the description that the seeds were collected at source by the Russian Landrace Bureau, I'm not sure there would be much more I could do to make it clear, right?

by the way, this thing of emphasizing that seeds are "hand-picked" really needs to be addressed

it's a red-herring so far as collecting in the field goes imo
 

teide

Well-known member
Veteran
I agree that hand picked or not is irrelevant. Researched, sourced and quality checked is what counts.
 
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