Rheumatoid Arthritis THC, CBD or both?

Chi13 · Nov 17, 2020

I recently had a scan which suggests I likely have seronegative rheumatoid arthritis. I have had back problems for 20 years, but now severe pain in both hands. There are a few neurological conditions that run in the family, including RA. My GP has said that it is likely, but still needs to be confirmed by a specialist. Should know next month.

I have been using cannabis for the back pain which has been beneficial, but no miracle cure. Nearly all the varieties I have are moderate to high THC, but little CBD, and these varieties seem to have little effect on my hand pain. I am on anti inflamatries which help to an extent but hate taking them.

So I am wondering if I should try CBD? Does anyone have any experience with this? Should I use CBD alone, or ratios of CBD and THC.

I am also wondering how I can avoid some of the RA treatments, all of which seem to have horrific side effects.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with this. Also any alternative therapies or supplements that may help?

flylowgethigh · Nov 17, 2020

My experience: I eat a lot of pot cookies and also take CBD isolate drops. I believe this helps me soldier on, and keep being able to go some pretty vigorous chores for an old guy about to turn 66. Some injuries are not helped with this stuff though. One finger joint is very painful no matter what, yet painful hip and shoulder are miracle cured. I am blessed with a good back. FWIW I have slept on a waterbed for over 40 years

I have some high CBD stuff coming, so look for a report on that being introduced into the mix soon.

I think that exercise and movement also help, so there is a synergistic deal going on. You move because it doesn't hurt, and it doesn't hurt cause you move.

Keep repeating that enough times and maybe your brain may believe it.

Then there is the surgery thing. After trying the short-term cortosone shots, I did the bone fusion thing in my neck. It works wonderfully, and I do a lot of off-road driving.

troutman · Nov 17, 2020

I think 1:1 strains are probably best for most medial issues. :tiphat:

Galvano · Nov 17, 2020

Here you might find something useful:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=359533

aridbud · Nov 17, 2020

I've had RA since diagnosis in 2006, and probably 5-7 years prior along with OA, and another autoimmune disease attacking joints/organs.

2:1 CBD:thc works quite well for me, as do cannabis balms for finger/joint inflammation.

We've developed several strains (for my benefit as well as others suffering from chronic pain) that have been quite beneficial.

YES, CBD works!!!

Capsules, whole spectrum - entire plant, is what I use for making capsules. Balms for loosening fingers, hands/wrists from morning stiffness or working with my hands. Used to make tinctures, but easier to have capsules to take with other supplements for pain, depletion of body's minerals/vitamins.

AIP (autoimmune protocol) of foods- many can aggravate inflammation.

Massage, acupuncture work as well to ease chronic inflammation and pain.

The important thing is keeping endocannabinoids in your body, whatever method you choose. Chronic pain affects mood, depression as well.The right balance of cannabis strains are essential.

Have several articles- PM me, if interested.

xavier7995 · Nov 17, 2020

I made a salve for my dad, he had it in his ankles and could barely walk. Personally, im not a big believer in medical weed, but to each their own and such, but my pops swears by the stuff I made and thinks it "cured" him as he finally stopped having pain and swelling without using the stuff.

Its about a half pound of weed per 32(i think...the largest size at a normal grocery store) ounce jar of coconut oil.

1. Decarb weed in oven...refer to whatever guide of choice.

2. Weed and coconut oil go into a crockpot with water to float it all.

3. Cook for 24 hours. I ate this stuff and man its cbn heavy and puts you to sleep.

4. Separate and strain as normal, should have a large amount of hardened oil, I stick it back in the original jar.

5. Rig up a double boiler type setup to gently warm your oil back to a liquid state and add in bees wax to get the stuff to the right consistency. It is a slow process, I buy the bees wax pellets and toss in a handful and let incorporate, then a bit more. Let it cool and see how it is, add more wax, etc. Once you have a good consistency add in whatever scent of essential oils you want, otherwise it will stink like weed.

And thats about it, takes a while but mostly its inactive time. My pops gave it to some of his buddies and they all seemed to really like it, "rub a lil weed on it" becoming a joke. I tried it just on some sore muscles and it didn't do anything for me, so I take their opinions with a grain of salt and it could have been placebo. I use regular weed to make stuff.

aridbud · Nov 17, 2020

Amazing how many oldsters/elders are taking CBD. Have several 90+ y.o. using products....it HELPS!
Good for your dad, xavier!

mack 10 · Nov 17, 2020

Chi13 said:
I recently had a scan which suggests I likely have seronegative rheumatoid arthritis. I have had back problems for 20 years, but now severe pain in both hands. There are a few neurological conditions that run in the family, including RA. My GP has said that it is likely, but still needs to be confirmed by a specialist. Should know next month.

I have been using cannabis for the back pain which has been beneficial, but no miracle cure. Nearly all the varieties I have are moderate to high THC, but little CBD, and these varieties seem to have little effect on my hand pain. I am on anti inflamatries which help to an extent but hate taking them.

So I am wondering if I should try CBD? Does anyone have any experience with this? Should I use CBD alone, or ratios of CBD and THC.

I am also wondering how I can avoid some of the RA treatments, all of which seem to have horrific side effects.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experience with this. Also any alternative therapies or supplements that may help?

I too am in a very similar position.
But for my mom.

Same back pain and hand/wrist pain.

My Dr friend advised me to get some CBD and mix some high THC oil in to it.
Coconut oil as the carrier so it can be used as a cream.
Anyone know of something to make the coconut soak in better?
As it's a bit oily when you try an rub it in.

For pain he says THC is king.
So full spectrum is the best way.

Keep us updated how you get on.

xavier7995 · Nov 17, 2020

mack 10 said:
I too am in a very similar position.
But for my mom.

Same back pain and hand/wrist pain.

My Dr friend advised me to get some CBD and mix some high THC oil in to it.
Coconut oil as the carrier so it can be used as a cream.
Anyone know of something to make the coconut soak in better?
As it's a bit oily when you try an rub it in.

For pain he says THC is king.
So full spectrum is the best way.

Keep us updated how you get on.

I melted some bees wax into what I made to get it to be a better consistency, also looking at various other non weed rubs/salves they all seemed to have it, still kinda oily but a definite improvement. My anecdotal evidence leads me to believe thc is key, but it could very well be that I just haven't seen/experienced a good cbd product.

flylowgethigh · Nov 17, 2020

This is the first I have heard of a topical CBN making you sleepy. edit, ate. My bad.

Old people liking how they feel when they get some of the oils in their system via CBD isolate or hemp squeezins - is the camel's nose in the legal dope tent. President Trump was brilliant when he legalized hemp, now he needs to finish the job.

Also a good data point for longer in the crock-pot makes the conversion.

xavier7995 said:
I made a salve for my dad, he had it in his ankles and could barely walk. Personally, im not a big believer in medical weed, but to each their own and such, but my pops swears by the stuff I made and thinks it "cured" him as he finally stopped having pain and swelling without using the stuff.

Its about a half pound of weed per 32(i think...the largest size at a normal grocery store) ounce jar of coconut oil.

1. Decarb weed in oven...refer to whatever guide of choice.

2. Weed and coconut oil go into a crockpot with water to float it all.

3. Cook for 24 hours. I ate this stuff and man its cbn heavy and puts you to sleep.

4. Separate and strain as normal, should have a large amount of hardened oil, I stick it back in the original jar.

5. Rig up a double boiler type setup to gently warm your oil back to a liquid state and add in bees wax to get the stuff to the right consistency. It is a slow process, I buy the bees wax pellets and toss in a handful and let incorporate, then a bit more. Let it cool and see how it is, add more wax, etc. Once you have a good consistency add in whatever scent of essential oils you want, otherwise it will stink like weed.

And thats about it, takes a while but mostly its inactive time. My pops gave it to some of his buddies and they all seemed to really like it, "rub a lil weed on it" becoming a joke. I tried it just on some sore muscles and it didn't do anything for me, so I take their opinions with a grain of salt and it could have been placebo. I use regular weed to make stuff.

xavier7995 · Nov 17, 2020

That was just when I ate it, it doesn't do anything like that used as a topical.

Edit: its just a basic cannabutter cooked for a long time, just using coconut oil instead of butter as that is the medium/carrier that gets it where it needs to be. I sort of smashed graywolfs holy shit oil together with one of the bad kitty set of instructions on making a salve. There was a commercial product my dad got out in WA that was like 200 bucks for a few ounce tube and it worked, then got discontinued and all the others he tried sucked and did nothing so I just looked at the tube and backed into the fact that it was just super concentrated coco oil...so tried my hand at it. Tinctures are up next.

Chi13 · Nov 17, 2020

Thanks for all the replies! Exactly what I wanted; personal experience with this. I was going to have a break from growing but it looks like I will have to pop my only likely CBD containing variety.

Aridbud, thanks for alerting me to diet and CBD/THC ratios. That certainly is interesting and I have been down a bit of a rabbit hole with diet. I am currently on a plant based diet which should be very anti inflamatory, although I am now wondering if I should look more closely at it. Some of the advice you read on the net contradicts the science around inflamation and food. For example, nightshades you read are potentially bad, yet the science says they are not; in fact suggests the opposite? Anyway I will look into it further as there is certainly some things I may eliminate or tweak. I thought I was getting all my omega 3s from plants but perhaps not enough? I will also consider the AIP. I am not welded to my current diet so am open to other possibilities. I will likely send you a PM once I get my own head around this.

I will also consider accupuncture and maybe massage as suggested.

I am pretty active so will try to remain as mobile as possible. I already walk an hour or so a day and do tai chi most days. I might start doing a bit of swimming as well. I certainly can't do things like push ups anymore. Making a cup of coffee hurts now.

Mack and Xavier, thanks for the heads up regarding edibles. I will absolutely incorporate that. I haven't had edibles for a while and forgotten how relaxing they can be, so likely a good option.

I am planning to experiment with this around diet, lifestyle, cannabis, therapies, and maybe conventional medicine and keep updating.

flylowgethigh · Nov 18, 2020

No point waiting for your own CBD flowers. I have a pound of trim and a qp of flower coming. I'll vape the trim to explore the terps, and add it to my butter.

https://cbdhemp.direct/

When I can source some pure CBD extract I will make some creme like GW describes. HAO would be very sweet. BTW, GW says HAO will remove moles. Hot rosin or hash-oil won't, so it's not just the oils.

aridbud · Nov 18, 2020

Some of the advice you read on the net contradicts the science around inflamation and food. For example, nightshades you read are potentially bad, yet the science says they are not; in fact suggests the opposite?

Chi-
Not sure where you are getting contractory info. For notmal folks (not with auto-immune which attacks itself in the body), no problem, for those with autoimmune conditions, nightshades and legumes increase inflammation. Increased inflammation + pain/destruction.

I can have them sparingly, once a month or so. I stick to plants/roots that heal (like Hippocrates said:“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”)

Too, over the years I've had 4 practitioners, plus alternative healer mention the same thing.

Anything can be challenged. I'm just lending you my experiences. what professionals have told me, the research I've done as a healthcare educator.

Up to you, go with what you know, lean, etc.

AIP is not a magic bullet, making me 25, yet AIP does help with overall regimen.

Magnesium deficiency is another thing with those suffering chronic pain/autoimmune. I take Mag. Malate. Hot soaks in epsom salts help, too....part of my winter regimen.

So, a combo of things to consider, think about. Good luck! Feel better!

aridbud · Nov 18, 2020

flylowgethigh said:
No point waiting for your own CBD flowers. I have a pound of trim and a qp of flower coming. I'll vape the trim to explore the terps, and add it to my butter.

https://cbdhemp.direct/

When I can source some pure CBD extract I will make some creme like GW describes. HAO would be very sweet. BTW, GW says HAO will remove moles. Hot rosin or hash-oil won't, so it's not just the oils.

We've purchased from them a time or two. New strains to grow.

Chi13 · Nov 18, 2020

aridbud said:
Some of the advice you read on the net contradicts the science around inflamation and food. For example, nightshades you read are potentially bad, yet the science says they are not; in fact suggests the opposite?

Chi-
Not sure where you are getting contractory info. For notmal folks (not with auto-immune which attacks itself in the body), no problem, for those with autoimmune conditions, nightshades and legumes increase inflammation. Increased inflammation + pain/destruction.

I can have them sparingly, once a month or so. I stick to plants/roots that heal (like Hippocrates said:“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”)

Too, over the years I've had 4 practitioners, plus alternative healer mention the same thing.

Anything can be challenged. I'm just lending you my experiences. what professionals have told me, the research I've done as a healthcare educator.

Up to you, go with what you know, lean, etc.

AIP is not a magic bullet, making me 25, yet AIP does help with overall regimen.

Magnesium deficiency is another thing with those suffering chronic pain/autoimmune. I take Mag. Malate. Hot soaks in epsom salts help, too....part of my winter regimen.

So, a combo of things to consider, think about. Good luck! Feel better!

Food for thought. I am willing to give anything a try. I eat a lot of legumes and nightshade veges virtually every day. The only way I can tell for sure is to eliminate and see what happens. I have recently started to take magnesium and I also use tumeric supplement and use tumeric and ginger a lot in cooking.

The info I am getting are from various sources on the net. The science I am referring to is the Dietry Inflamatory Index and this article which linked me to several others.

"The most anti-inflammatory nutrients on the DII are various antioxidants, including:
Flavones, such as the pigments found in the red-purple vegetables of the much-maligned "nightshade" family, including eggplants, peppers and tomatoes";
https://health.usnews.com/health-ne...flammatory-diet-is-probably-just-the-opposite
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23941862/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5682732/

This one suggests a plant based diet is beneficial for RA.
https://pbdmedicine.org/rheumatoid-arthritis-plant-based-diets-can-help/

This one suggests there is no evidence that nightshades are inflammatory.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321745#do-nightshade-vegetables-cause-inflammation

This suggests that legumes are anti inflammatory, but I found loads of articles suggesting this.
Beans: Examples are black beans, pinto beans, and kidney beans, which contain anti-inflammatory and antioxidant compounds.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321745#anti-inflammatory-foods-
And this;
Although many anti-inflammatory diets claim that whole grains and pulses — beans, peas and lentils — increase inflammation, research shows otherwise. Pulses are high in fiber and magnesium, and magnesium has been shown to help reduce inflammation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...9215b6-b9b2-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

If you can post links that contradict this, please do. I will discuss it when I meet next month with my Rheumatologist.

I have other health reasons for wanting to stick with a plant based diet, but as I said, I am willing to change if there is good reason. I did find various articles suggesting to eliminate nightshades, but I couldn't find any science to back it up?

Thanks for taking the time to post. I really appreciate it and I don't discount what you are saying. I am just a prove it me type of person.

aridbud · Nov 19, 2020

Instead of looking for info that disputes it, you should concentrate on helpful threads/articles. Since you lean on disputing, I won't waste my time.

Being seronegative, eventually it'll roll over to seropositive.

RA deals with entire body inflammation, and joints are just one aspect.

As mentioned, I've been "living" with RA and another equally destructive autoimmune condition for 15-20+ years.

Practitioners I go to, or had gone to, all agree with Solanine and Lectins affect on an autoimmune body, both night shades and legumes have them. Taught pathology (anatomy/physiology) at community college for years.

Tend to agree with info out there.Autoimmune is not finite, so varying degrees of RA and bodily affects, along with all autoimmune conditions.

You'll find your path. Good luck!

Chi13 · Nov 19, 2020

I wasn't necessarily looking for information that disputes what you said, my searches just came up with them. I am a believer in evidence, so when I read something that contradicts what I am told I have to question it.

I see that there are a lot of anecdotes around this, so am willing at least to give it a try. So I will give up nightshades, legumes, and grains, for a month and see how I go. If it is successful I will reintroduce them and see what the effect is.

aridbud · Nov 20, 2020

I'm hoping you are getting guidance from a rheumatologist or primary care regarding recent diagnosis. If you have insurance, perhaps seek out a "Functional Medicine" practitioner, MD, D.O., or D.O.M. They can devise an individual plan that helps you holistically, whole body . Diet, supplements are just a part of it, as autoimmune response erodes, thus supplements to restore.

sbeanonnamellow · Nov 20, 2020

CBG is noted to be anti-inflammatory

Rheumatoid Arthritis THC, CBD or both?

Well-known member

Non-growing Lurker

Seed Whore

Member

automeister

Attachments

xavier7995

automeister

Well-known member

xavier7995

Non-growing Lurker

xavier7995

Well-known member

Non-growing Lurker

automeister

automeister

Well-known member

automeister

Well-known member

automeister

Well-known member