Couple questions about coco.

wheredaweedat · Mar 28, 2015

Thinking about trying out some coco and I'm wondering should I stay with the GH3 part line with cal/mag or switch up. I wouldn't mind giving pure blend pro a go but when I used it for dwc years ago, it didn't yield as well as the GH 3 part but that could have been my fault since I was already familiar with gh but not pbp.

Is PBP good to go or would I benefit from canna, as the hydro shop man pitches me?

Also, are fabric grow bags cool for coco or are plastic air pots the way to go?

Here's what I was thinking of doing:
Start in small 16 oz cup for clones, seed starts.

Move to 1 gallon grow bags/air pots with top/bottom layer of rock, 80/20 coco to perlite (or is rice husk a better option?).

Then finish in 2 or 3 gallon fabric bags/air pots.

Rinse and ph condition coco, ph 5.8-5.9.

Cheers and thanks.

Granger2 · Mar 28, 2015

Canna is good, but expensive. Of course he pitches it. Fabric pots for sure. You should have good results with PBP, but use all the additives. Good luck. -granger

IndoorAddict · Mar 28, 2015

My two cents worth is in red. It's just my opinion and personal experience.

wheredaweedat said:
Thinking about trying out some coco and I'm wondering should I stay with the GH3 part line with cal/mag or switch up. I would use the gh micro and bloom only using h3ads recipe. It's what I'm using now and am very pleased with it. I run tap and RO 50/50 and don't have to add cal/magI wouldn't mind giving pure blend pro a go but when I used it for dwc years ago, it didn't yield as well as the GH 3 part but that could have been my fault since I was already familiar with gh but not pbp.

Is PBP good to go or would I benefit from canna, as the hydro shop man pitches me?Can't say on pbp but I can say on canna. I used it on my first grow along with their boost and pk 13/14 my results were awesome but I think it costs too much.

Also, are fabric grow bags cool for coco or are plastic air pots the way to go? Fabric pots are awesome for coco

Here's what I was thinking of doing:
Start in small 16 oz cup for clones, seed starts.

Move to 1 gallon grow bags/air pots with top/bottom layer of rock, 80/20 coco to perlite (or is rice husk a better option?).forget the rock and perlite. Straight coco is all that you need.

Then finish in 2 or 3 gallon fabric bags/air pots.

Rinse and ph condition coco, ph 5.8-5.9. Transplanting from a grow bag sucks imo , just go from your cup to final size pot desired. And you're right on on the ph and conditioning

Cheers and thanks.

touringfunkband · Mar 28, 2015

I highly recommend the Canna route. It really is as simplistic as it gets and there's no need to purchase all the extras with your first go at it. Just Canna A + B and your choice of bloom booster will do you for the first round.

I go from 16oz solo cups, just like you mentioned, into the final 3 gallon smart pot. I do use a few drops of drip clean per gallon and mix in a few handfulls of perlite just to lighten up the coco as it tends to become like a harden puck by the end of the grow and it's easier for me to break up and dispose of when I mix in a bit of perlite.

One great thing with Canna coco is there is no need to rinse the bag formula. It's perfect right out of the bag and I've used hundreds of bags. BTW, I use R/O water and have never had a need for cal/mag nor epsom salts.

stevewinthrop · Mar 28, 2015

Yo, I've never needed to add cal-mag to my coco. I think the GH nutes have enough. I use the powdered stuff, maxi series. It works great I've never had an issue. I grow in 3 gallon fabric bags 100 percent coco.

You'll be fine no matter what you do, I wouldn't make too much of a fuss about nutrients, anything will work. Just keep them watered, coco is hydro so they will drink a lot.

wheredaweedat · Mar 28, 2015

Awesome shit guy, thanks. I believe I will just go with the three gallon bags then and I think I'll try canna a + b side by side with my GH 3 part to see which I prefer with the new medium. I'll run some with and some without the bloom booster as I'm skeptical about their effectiveness.

So no need for perlite? Cool but I think I would still layer the bottom with rock just to help with soggy bottom issues.

What kind of nutrient strength are you guys running in coco? With dwc I typically don't go over 1000 ppms.
Thanks for the help.

CoCoSativas · Mar 28, 2015

I grow in growing. I'm using the gh flora series. It's very ph stable I'm loving the stuff.

I did a thread asking pbp vs general organics. There was lots of support for both. I've used go biothrive veg in coco it was good.

I'm going for a better yield, so I'm going to use the flora for now. Lots I'd like to try yet. Right now the price and results Im getting with the flora work for me.

canna is very pricey stuff, but Id be interested to try it in a side by side vs a couple cheaper things See if its worth the price. Lots of great nutrient systems that less expensive but just as many that are equally pricy. I guess it depends on your budget and belief.

CoCoSativas · Mar 28, 2015

wheredaweedat said:
Awesome shit guy, thanks. I believe I will just go with the three gallon bags then and I think I'll try canna a + b side by side with my GH 3 part to see which I prefer with the new medium. I'll run some with and some without the bloom booster as I'm skeptical about their effectiveness.

So no need for perlite? Cool but I think I would still layer the bottom with rock just to help with soggy bottom issues.

What kind of nutrient strength are you guys running in coco? With dwc I typically don't go over 1000 ppms.
Thanks for the help.

I'm following the gh flora schedule available on gh main site PDF... It's working well.

I have lots of perlite but I'm just doing them in strait coco right now in veg. When I transplant to bigger containers I may cut it with perlite, but I might not, it's fine either way. With strait coco you water a less. I like perlite alot so I probably will use it. You can use it in any mixture you like. You can grow in pure perlite or coco so you can mix them in any combination you want. Coco needs less water than perlite so keep that in n mind when you choose your mix.

I'm brewing co2 in a bucket right now, and it's an amazing combination, gh flora, coco and co2. Sativa hybrid tent grow, going gh into flower within the next seven days

RetroGrow · Mar 28, 2015

Any nutes work, but, having tried all the Canna products, I would only use the Rhizotonic for the roots, and Boost, for increased yield and shorter finishing time. I prefer the GH line over Canna A&B, which is way too expensive. Maxibloom all the way (KISS method), or the Flora series. Each is Lucas formula. As far as pots, Hempys blow away cloth or any other type of pot, as it's a true hydro system, although passive, and coco is a hydro medium. They are made for each other.
One tip I can give you is start your seedlings in Fox Farms Lightwarrior, with micorrhizae. It's the absolute best stuff for starts. When cup, 16 or 20 oz. is full, transplant into coco and begin feeding full strength. The micorrhizae then work symbiotically with the trichoderma in coco to protect and extend your root system and nutrient uptake.

CoCoSativas · Mar 28, 2015

RetroGrow said:
Any nutes work, but, having tried all the Canna products, I would only use the Rhizotonic for the roots, and Boost, for increased yield and shorter finishing time. I prefer the GH line over Canna A&B, which is way too expensive. Maxibloom all the way (KISS method), or the Flora series. Each is Lucas formula. As far as pots, Hempys blow away cloth or any other type of pot, as it's a true hydro system, although passive, and coco is a hydro medium. They are made for each other.
One tip I can give you is start your seedlings in Fox Farms Lightwarrior, with micorrhizae. It's the absolute best stuff for starts. When cup, 16 or 20 oz. is full, transplant into coco and begin feeding full strength. The micorrhizae then work symbiotically with the trichoderma in coco to protect and extend your root system and nutrient uptake.

I germinated directly in coco with great results. Invent seen a difference between starting in soil or coco,they both work well. Much better than paper towel and glasses of water....

stoned40yrs · Mar 28, 2015

CoCoSativas said:
I'm following the gh flora schedule available on gh main site PDF... It's working well.

I have lots of perlite but I'm just doing them in strait coco right now in veg. When I transplant to bigger containers I may cut it with perlite, but I might not, it's fine either way. With strait coco you water a less. I like perlite alot so I probably will use it. You can use it in any mixture you like. You can grow in pure perlite or coco so you can mix them in any combination you want. Coco needs less water than perlite so keep that in n mind when you choose your mix.

I don't like perlite because it's messy and I used it for years in soil. I may try it in coco some day as I always get over the things I dislike and try them again. :biggrin:

Why "guess" how much perlite to use with coco? Every ratio has been tested, the results are on the net. The best ratio for air porosity/water is 70% coco and 30% perlite or 30% rice husk. No more- no less. 70/30 :tiphat:

Hydroton at the bottom of your container of coco does nothing good. Waste of time/money.

stevewinthrop · Mar 28, 2015

Yes, I've tried cutting with perlite and hydroton, doesn't do anything good. Much better results with full coco. Coco is hydro medium, you don't want it to dry out between watering, and that is all that adding perlite has done for me in the past is make the coco dry out more between watering. I use blumats now, so there's absolutely no need for perlite, but I understand the desire to add perlite. I was adding perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the bags, but when I'd harvest I'd notice the roots weren't pushing through that layer, so I stopped, now the roots are completely filling the bags which is what I am looking for.

stoned40yrs · Mar 28, 2015

stevewinthrop said:
Yes, I've tried cutting with perlite and hydroton, doesn't do anything good. Much better results with full coco. Coco is hydro medium, you don't want it to dry out between watering, and that is all that adding perlite has done for me in the past is make the coco dry out more between watering. I use blumats now, so there's absolutely no need for perlite, but I understand the desire to add perlite.

I use 100% coco and get great results but I don't believe it's better than if I used a 70/30 mix of coco/perlite. Yes the mix dries out faster but that is a good thing when you are giving multiple feeding a day. The act of watering pushes out the stale air and draws in fresh air. I've read everything I can find on the net about coco and nothing points to straight coco beating the 70/30. Bro science don't mean jack, if you have a link to some science saying straight coco is better than a mix give me a link :tiphat:

feeblebunny · Mar 28, 2015

I agree with the posts recommending unmodified coco. I mixed 50/50 chunky fibrous stuff and fine coco. Next time I will just use the fine stuff as I think the texture is excellent by itself and my current mix could hold a bit more liquid. Keep in mind canna has coco blocks too. Also, if you want cheap and good, the combination of jack's or hydrosol with Ca nitrate seems to be working very well in coco.

BCNeil · Mar 28, 2015

stoned40yrs said:
I use 100% coco and get great results but I don't believe it's better than if I used a 70/30 mix of coco/perlite. Yes the mix dries out faster but that is a good thing when you are giving multiple feeding a day. The act of watering pushes out the stale air and draws in fresh air. I've read everything I can find on the net about coco and nothing points to straight coco beating the 70/30. Bro science don't mean jack, if you have a link to some science saying straight coco is better than a mix give me a link

I have tried straight coco against coco/hydrocorn, and a coco/perlite mix.

The mixes produced more yield in both cases, a significant amount too. However, the plants also grew much bigger.

The mix with the hydrocorns did the best, but the plants grew about 10 inches taller that the same clones in just coco.
So you yield more per plant. But you might fit less of these in the same area. So I think once you dial in a strain to get a nice thick canopy to your desired height, both methods would a wash.

I think the straight coco is just slower off the start, the plants can't dry it out fast enough. I use 2 gallon airpots right now, and make sure the plants are in them a week before 12/12.

stoned40yrs · Mar 28, 2015

feeblebunny said:
I agree with the posts recommending unmodified coco. I mixed 50/50 chunky fibrous stuff and fine coco. Next time I will just use the fine stuff as I think the texture is excellent by itself and my current mix could hold a bit more liquid. Keep in mind canna has coco blocks too. Also, if you want cheap and good, the combination of jack's or hydrosol with Ca nitrate seems to be working very well in coco.

Ahh we are talking perlite or rice husk as the mix with coco coir. Chunky coco husk is crap and never supposed to be mixed with coco coir. It creates air pockets and decreases root growth. You made a mistake adding that crap at 50/50. :biggrin:

wheredaweedat · Mar 29, 2015

Some nice suggestions and information. I shop by the local shop and talk with the owner. He recommended royal gold Tupur mix because I'll be hand watering so I rolled with that over the botanicare straight coco. He said once I automate feedings to run the pure coco because it needs to be water 3-4 times a day. I'll run this tupur mix for veg and see how I like it and determine if I'll continue to use it or switch to pure coco.

Now with pure coco like the botanicare or canna, should I add lime to it before I plant in it? Or just flush and soak it in ph/nutrient solution?

Also, I'm going to just first run with the GH 3 part and pick up canna some time down the road. Thanks guys, I'm going to transplant tomorrow so I'll let cha know how it goes. Thanks everyone.

wheredaweedat · Mar 29, 2015

Sorry, I don't know how to edit post. But that second sentence should read:
"I stopped by the local hydro shop and talked with the owner."

RetroGrow · Mar 29, 2015

CoCoSativas said:
I germinated directly in coco with great results. Invent seen a difference between starting in soil or coco,they both work well. Much better than paper towel and glasses of water....

Germing or cloning in coco works fine, but germing in Lightwarrior works better, because of the micorrhizae, which then work symbiotically with the trichoderma in coco. The micorrhizae extend the root system dramatically, and help break down enzymes for easy uptake by the plant. If you try it once, you will see the difference. It also has the perfect nutrient balance for seedlings. Just add Rhizotonic.

stevewinthrop · Mar 29, 2015

No lime, it's not soil pretend it's just hydroton. You wouldn't add lime to hydroton. The pH stability comes from the nutrient solution, not the substrate.

Couple questions about coco.

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