First time hydro

blackone · Jan 5, 2012

Well a friend of mine kept telling me how easy hydro was and how I should stop being afraid of it so here we go.
I don't trust my PH meter (got a Hanna combo that has been dry for years - bought it because I was planning on going hydro but it never happened) and I can't find it either so for now this is without checking PH.

16 rooted swt clones in hydroton-filled netpots. Nutrient is Hornum - a Danish general purpose (read tomato) greenhouse fert with an NPK value 5-1-4 that has served me well as a vegging fert in the past.

Submerged in plastic trays with nothing blocking the light. As it was the roots were happily growing in the light in the cloning tray. Of course this is not a long-term solution because algae will start to form pretty soon so I need to think of something but I'm broke atm

Yesterday I was pretty damn stoned and watching aquaponics videos - now I can't stop thinking about adding duckweed to block out the light in the open water areas... Or perhaps just use a box with a lid

Hydro-Soil · Jan 5, 2012

Grab yourself a pH drops testing kit as soon as possible.

It's cheap, accurate enough and will work for a loooong time. (hint: use 1/3rd of the vial and only one drop of testing solution... plenty accurate enough.)

Looks good. If you'll be set up like that for less than 2 weeks I wouldn't worry about algae... used to run a long term mum/clone E&F setup that picked up quite a bit of algae between cleanings. Every other month if I remember correctly.

Curled twisting leaves are a sign of improper pH. High pH will cause roots to grow like pole ladders.... I forget what low pH causes the roots to look like but the leaves will also twist and curl on new growth. Hope that helps till you get pH drops.

Stay Safe! :blowbubbles:

blackone · Jan 5, 2012

Thanks man - I appreciate all the advice I can get. The plan is to get a GHE tripack for hard water that includes a PH test liquid.
The ugly leaves they have now is because they took too long to root in the cloner - I don't know if it's because I used a local dry rooting hormone instead of clonex or if it's because of a too low rootzone temp now that it's winter.
Anyway the clones were looking better after a few hours than they were before - I hope nothing bad happens before I can check PH.

Homebrewer · Jan 5, 2012

For the first several years of my hydro hobby, I didn't even own a pH pen or TDS meter. My plants looked good and there was no immediate need based on how my plants were performing. As long as you're not feeding them like an a-hole, your plants will be fine. If you have to prioritize things, get your system dialed in and just keep the plants healthy. If you actually had pH issues at the moment, your plants would look deficient as an unacceptable pH affects the uptake of certain essential elements; your plants look totally normal right now. On your short list though should be a TDS meter and a pH pen as both items can make life trouble-free down the road. Welcome to hydro!

socialist · Jan 5, 2012

If you cant do anything to get them in something light tight just just change the water more often and clean the tray each time you do.

Tfresh420 · Jan 5, 2012

Keep your ph between 5.2 and 5.8 it should swing from low to high while they are small. Once they have an established root system try to hold your ph at 5.8. Def grab a ph pen i use blue lab its always reliable but make sure you grab the calibration solution and calibrate at least once a month. As far as slime protection i use hygrozyme its easy on your ppm and doesn't kill any beneficial bacts in your nutes. Def keep your nutes simple and stay on top of your plants. Hydro is not simple because things can go sour very quick because the nutes are so readily available and your roots are sitting in it so if your mix is off it doesn't take long for the plants to take a turn for the worst. So i def would grab an EC meter you def should know what your EC is because its all based on salts and how available they are to your roots you don't want salts to build up because you will get locked up and deficient quick. Hydro is very effective and can be great fun but without the right tools it is much more difficult than it has to be. Good luck you'll catch on quick.

Hydro-Soil · Jan 6, 2012

Tfresh420 said:
Keep your ph between 5.2 and 5.8 it should swing from low to high while they are small. Once they have an established root system try to hold your ph at 5.8.

???

The pH swing is important throughout the life of the plant, veg and flower. Why on earth would you stop the plant from easily absorbing nutes it needs?

Holding a narrow pH in systems where the roots are submerged will cause deficiencies to appear unless the pH range is nearly perfect. Even then the plant will not grow optimally as it's more difficult to absorb most of the elements in the nutrient properly. One of the main reasons people have had issues with using the Lucas Formula.

The only time you need to maintain a narrow pH window is when you're using a hydro medium that dries out between waterings.... the pH swing is created as the water evaporates.

Make sense?

blackone · Jan 7, 2012

Got myself a hole saw and built a tub for vegging.
I see growth now and I wish I could see them one week from now.

blackone · Jan 9, 2012

A couple of days later - not sure if I should worry about the very light green new leaves or if it's normal. To me it still looks like the color I see when plants are growing fast but I'm keeping an eye on them. I hope to aquire some PH testing soon.

socialist · Jan 9, 2012

Glad to see you got them all set up. Like someone else said, you should just grab the pH drops to check.

Korngut · Jan 9, 2012

looks good man. what method u moving them to? dwc? if so as hydro-soil stated u definately wanna swing. best of luck

FreezerBoy · Jan 9, 2012

Other than going yellow over time, they look damn good for a 1st timer. Way to go! My first check would be pH. pH controls what the plant will or wont eat. I'd check to see you haven't set pH to lock out MG or N. Underfeeding may be a problem, you haven't mentioned EC. Are you feeding at the bottles full strength recommendation? Less, more?

A pH test kit is available at any pet/aquarium store for $5. It lasts for years. One day without a 6 pack, or pizza, or cigs will cover the cost.

Tfresh420 said:
Once they have an established root system try to hold your ph at 5.8.

Stable pH is bad for you. Stable pH guarantees unbalanced feeding leading to deficiencies, toxicity or both. No single pH # allows absorption of all nutes. For balanced feeding, pH swing is required.

blackone · Jan 9, 2012

Thanks - the PH kits I have seen in stores were pretty useless and the color differences weren't great. It would be hard to tell PH 6 from PH 7.

blackone · Jan 22, 2012

Didn't get the test yet and the weird yellowing got a lot worse but got an advice from someone who's used to hard water like mine to use vinegar for PH down at a rate of 3ml/l water. I also foliar fed with Hornum at 5ml/l hoping that the leaves would be able to absorb what the roots couldn't.
That seems to have done the trick - some leaves are still discolored and even a bit necrotic but new growth is all green now and even some older leaves have managed to turn a green color they didn't have before. In soil I can't remember seeing yellow leaves regaining their color once it went away.
I'm seeing acceptable growth here compared to the other pic 12 days ago.

socialist · Jan 23, 2012

If the leaf has more than 50% damage to it I would remove it.

Maddhatter · Jan 23, 2012

do not remove leaves yet, i strongly urge you to find your ph/ppm meter and check your shiz!!! most peoples first thoughts on yellowing leaves is an N def, im by far not an expert but have delt with the sameish issue

considering what you are working with they are looking amazing!

on your most recent pics the top one; at the bottom left background leaf appears to me as there is some mite damage aswell

its also interesting to me that the foreground pictures that the plants/leaves are very lush and green yet the back plants/leaves are yellow

FreezerBoy · Jan 23, 2012

socialist said:
If the leaf has more than 50% damage to it I would remove it.

There was a time I kept my phone book in my head, now I can't remember my own number.

Because damage does not repair, I cut damaged portions off or remove heavy damage all together. Now, when I open my door I don't have to remember what it looked like yesterday. If I see damage, I know it's new.

But, I'm an old man with questionable memory....

Easygrowing · Jan 24, 2012

Hvor er det syndt du ikke har de måleinstrumenter B.O og nej man kan ikke skelne meget på de der papirsnoget testsæt,ikke halve værdier eller mindre..Intet forstand på det,men tror altså de vil have mere krudt og har læst en del steder nu,at PH ikke må være stabil,så går de i stå..ville selv købt det fra bluelab hvis og når..

Håber du får styr på dem for de godt nok vokset..

Midnight · Jan 24, 2012

You're doing well with your limited resources, however, your plants have spider mites or thrips, guaranteed. Do you see the white spots on the bottom left of this pic in the background? If these are spots then you have mites. If they look more like the slime trail a slug leaves then you have thrips. It's hard to tell from your pic but you for sure have one of the two. If you're lucky it will be thrips as those are easy to get rid of. Good luck!

MaynardG_Krebs · Jan 24, 2012

It seems to me that everyone has missed a very important issue here. He is using regular old household fertilizer which will not work in a hydro system at all. I think it's a miracle that the plants have even survived to this point. Get some hydroponic specific nutrients and follow the instructions. Just my observation.

mgk :tiphat:

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