Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

CC1

It wasn't so much born out of a design or intent but because it made the math easier.

A 'pony bale' of the Alaska Peat (2.2 c.f.) which I'll call '2 parts' mixed with 1 part of pumice (i.e. 1 c.f.) and 1 c.f. of a thermal compost and EWC mix and you're almost done. I add the pumice to this part of the mix first along with the regular amendments before mixing in the Alaska Peat.

Alaska Peat 2.2 c.f. Pony Bale = $9.00
Pumice (mixed sizes) 1 c.f. = $4.60
Thermal Compost/EWC 1 c.f. = $15.00 (assuming that you're using commercial products like Marwest, Vital Earth, GroundUp, vs. your own)

Total = $28.60 for 4 c.f. of a 'water only soil mix' = $7.15 per 1 c.f.

All you would need is a nice brand name and graphics and you're in the soil business. A name like 'Duh Dank Dirt' or something similar would capture the Kush Krowd.

I should have worked on Madison Avenue............

CC

excellent thread, been a perlite user for a while
have had no luck reusing the shit though, screening/floating just doesn't seem to work for me
so i've been taking used soil to the landfill, which i do not like doing, small grows so not much soil
i had seen the rice hulls in other threads, curious on how many use it as a perlite replacement, and their results

I see.......
That's sort of how my mixes work out as well....seems I have a plan at every recycle and then it ends up being something different than what I went into it thinking. I need more pumice,but I'm also considering the rice hulls in addition to the pumice. The mix as it is now holds water really well...almost no run-off after adding about 3/4 gallon of ACT to each 4 gallon pot..not to mention moist-ish soil. It may end up being a greater mix than I think after the roots fill out the space....less watering ya know. Less watering for me means a happier microherd,worms,etc. and the fact that I may be able to go 3 days without watering...maybe.

CC1

I usually have a bag of rice hulls sitting around. I like using them in the worm bins in particular and I usually add a few handfuls to the soil mixer. I've never really thought about them as an aeration amendment per se but obviously that's the benefit they add to the worm beds, i.e. aeration.

The aeration benefit aside, it appears to me at least that there's other things going on. Let's say that you add a couple of handfuls of rice hulls to the soil starting with the veg cycle and you've included them each and every time you've re-potted the plants into larger pots. Or however you got to your final pot for the flower cycle.

By the end of the flower cycle you'll notice that most of the rice hulls have begun to break down from microbial activity meaning that they're adding 'something' to the soil so that the benefit extends beyond the aeration aspect.

Something like that. They're definitely inexpensive. Good solid product. Nice amendment to your soil regardless of the initial intent/purpose.

BTW - I've been following Snooki on Facebook. She said something really profound yesterday about war which is why I am so enthralled with her political views. That and the fact that I have a soft spot in my heart for slutty Jersey chicks.

Last Monday my favorite pop idol, Snooki Polizzi attended the Washington Auto Show and while there she participated in a political discussion as hard as that is to imagine on any cogent level.

She said that former President George W. Bush ("Landslide Smirk") was 'pretty cute for an old man" and went on to discuss how she'd handle being Commander in Chief.

Politico magazine asked Snooks what she would do if she were president for a day and she told the crowd "I'd probably stop the war and that's serious. I'm not trying to be a beauty pageant girl bur war is not cool at all"

Snooks wasn't content to limit her comments to hardcore issues such as war and other 'icky stuff' - she also weighed in on Senator John McCain with this: "I’ve really only talked to John McCain, and that’s because I mentioned him on my show. How, you know, he probably wouldn’t do tan taxing because…he’s pale"

You can probably understand why I've become such a devotee of her as a future political star in addition to her taxing role as a reality TV star. I could see her teaming up with former (and part-time) Alaska governor for a presidential run in 2012.

"Mama Grizzly & Jersey Fat Ass"

CC

I'm almost a year into this recycling soil trip and I'm finding out that it is indeed actually building and maintaining soil. The easy part is building it,the thinking part involves maintaining a balance in the areas of drainage,texture,mineral and nutrient content,etc.
...I've heard the name "Snookie" but I'm ignorant to the pop world...The Sara Palin thing is just puke...nothing but puke.

By the end of the flower cycle you'll notice that most of the rice hulls have begun to break down from microbial activity meaning that they're adding 'something' to the soil so that the benefit extends beyond the aeration aspect.

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rice hulls are very high in silica as well, which is good for the soil and the plants. in time the rice hulls do turn to humus.

another great thing about them is they make EXCELLENT biochar. i mean by far some of the best because there already the perfect size. no crushing, no dust, none of that bullshit. you can also make them without a biochar burner and with far less work.

price is also a major benefit. around here you can get perlite for about 15-18 i think, and chunky perlite is 25$ i think. thats for a 3. cf bag without tax. now rice hulls i can get a 6 cf. bag for a little over 5$. ive heard from some people them being as cheap as under 5$ for a 6 cf bag.

on top of that its a waste product and not a mined product.

another long term aeration method for those who grow outdoors in the ground, or in large pots is ramial chipped wood. or wood from the fungal compost pit. preferably hardwoods or some softwoods. it takes about a year with ACT or BIM inoculation to get the soil going, but once its going it GOES. its basically chipped wood that is mixed in the soil, simple as that. i have personally experimented with it and grew great plants in high clay soil only amended with RCW and left to rest for 6+ months. inoculated with local BIM culture once.

this also gives you a great start on building soil in the long run. the part that turns most people off is letting the soil sit and rest for so long.

just picked up a bag of carquest DE <$7 for 26lbs. time for some experimentation...

jaykush said:

the part that turns most people off is letting the soil sit and rest for so long.

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i wish i could think that far in advance

some fine info on the rice hulls, thanks for the quick replies - it does sound like rice hulls could be a straight perlite replacement - but guessing maybe a bit more rice hull then perlite?

jaykush said:

in time the rice hulls do turn to humus.

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This is what I was thinking and hoping would happen..thanks for the confirmation. As far as the letting the soil rest thing goes....I'd need two batches of soil to let that happen....not really at that level yet,maybe by summer I can split my pile in half and re-amend each half to make up the volume I need. It would be nice to be able to plant in soil that was ready to go immediately rather than have to wait a week or two to see change in the plant tissue.

So, I heard mention of pine bark as an amendment. I never even thought of using, mainly because of how all the pine trees seem to kill any vegetation around them. However, I have an endless source of pine bark.. even have piles of it that have been sitting around a few years that have lots of myco activity.

Has anyone used pine bark here? What are your thoughts? How much would you put in and how long should I let the bark rot before using it?

Not much grows in these piles which has made me think they were not useful... I think I'm going to have to experiment a bit!

Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments

I prefer a heavy container. it's harder to knock over.

i wish i could think that far in advance

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well you know in a year from now you will need soil right? and as long as you spend little to no money and time fixing it up, if you don't end up needing it its no big deal. i could see if one went out and spent say 500$ on soil and amendments, hours spent driving around gathering materials, even more time measuring and then mixing it wouldn't be worth it, at least to me.

but guessing maybe a bit more rice hull then perlite?

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id say about the same possibly even slightly less. that all depends on how heavy your soil is though to start out with. youll be surprised how light rice hulls can make a heavy soil. that being said i prefer to use them with lavarock/pumice. the combo of the two together works very well along with some char to hold water.

I'd need two batches of soil to let that happen....not really at that level yet

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yea double batches is not for everyone. i have so much soil all over the place its no biggie. im backed up on compost for almost a year because its so easy to make more than i need. so before i even get to the compost its been curing for a while. than i have barrels, bins and other things filled with basic potting mix just sitting there. some have been there for over 2 years because of lazyness.

well my real issue is space. but i did lease a garden plot at my community garden this year, i'm going to use it as my soil laboratory for the time being. i've got a monster compost pile i'm building right now

jaykush said:

price is also a major benefit. around here you can get perlite for about 15-18 i think, and chunky perlite is 25$ i think. thats for a 3. cf bag without tax. now rice hulls i can get a 6 cf. bag for a little over 5$. ive heard from some people them being as cheap as under 5$ for a 6 cf bag.

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jaykush

Perlite (any size) runs $12.00 for the 4 c.f. bag and pumice runs $4.60 per 1 c.f. or $80.00 for a cubic yard = $2.96 per 1 c.f.

Organic rice hulls from the Central Valley in California runs $14.00 for 50 lbs. which I think is a misprint - it's probably the 6 c.f. bag that you're getting. It's a large amount regardless but I'm not sure that it's 50 lbs.

Regardless even at the higher price than you're getting it at, it's still a good deal all the way around since you have other options like you mentioned, i.e. bio char, etc. vs. single-use with pumice or perlite.

CC

Great thread guys....always like to hear Jay and CC wax poetic on organics.

Anyhow...Question for CC....I live in Vancouver (think I've told ya before but....) and I'm wondering where you get the pumice? If you posted it earlier I overlooked it sorry...

Also...where could I get rice hulls? The idea of having something that's a part of my mix that serves so many functions is awesome.

Its crazy how much there is to learn about all of this. So far I've read Teaming with Microbes (only once so far) and a Worming book......now my worm bin is about ready for its first harvesting. Also picked up the complete idiots guide to composting.

If you guys can recommend any books on organics that are must reads.....

Looks like perlite might be a thing of the past for me....

...

Hey coot,,That and the fact that I have a soft spot in my heart for slutty Jersey chicks. lol!! you too?!? Never want to go back to jersey if i don't have to but gotta luv those bimbos.lol

Aksala

Concentrates in Portland, Oregon has everything you could possibly want for organic gardening. Literally everything but it's all in 50 lb. bags. But it's worth it.

Take organic non-GMO alfalfa meal. A 5# box from Down-To-Earth has a list price of $9.95 or almost $2.00 per lb. A bag of the same organic alfalfa is $15.00 for 50 lbs. at Concentrates, i.e. $.30 per lb.

Kelp meal, seaweed extract, bat guano (*cough*cough*), soybean meal, canola meal, flaxseed meal, organic peat moss (look for the 'Alaska Peat' brand specifically), Sunshine mixes, fish meal, fish bone meal, oyster shell powder ($10.00 for 50 lbs.), soft rock phosphate, Canadian Glacial Rock Dust from Gaia Green, EWC, thermal compost, blah, blah, blah, blah...............

You're dancin' big time.

CC