I no longer believe Broad Mites cause DUDDING

stasis said:

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60673&pictureid=1425520&thumb=1]View Image[/url] GG4
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=59763&pictureid=1402312&thumb=1]View Image[/url] Triple Diesel

Broad mites are the #1 cause of dudding. Getting rid of them entirely is a dream. It becomes a preventative situation every run. And I am very careful. Once they are in. ya better control them. But complete eradication ain't gonna happen.

Sooooo many peoples' gardens are suffering around here, and people blame it on the genetics (in the case of the gorilla glue clone, i.e - tossing a certain percentage of flowering plants every run) or specific nutrients such as Gravity.

Ignore BM/Cyclamen/Russet Mites at your peril. After 70 indoor runs, and 8 years of greenies in Nor Cal, they wiped me out. And they are here in the Midwest MMJ state I reside in now, as well. Big Time.

The recovery from the BM's was difficult, expensive, and infuriating.

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Getting rid of them isn't a dream you just have to have many different modes of effect. Diatamatious earth, neem, some kind if repellent like wizards brew and alternate they get used to each one so if you change your mode of attack almost constantly, you can beat their genetic coding to beat pesticides.

There is not a single confirmed case of stem nematodes in Cannabis. Not one.What's actually going on in these imagined scenarios is fusarium/verticillium, Imo. Any immune system booster will mitigate/prevent infection.

stasis said:

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60673&pictureid=1425520&thumb=1]View Image[/url] GG4
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=59763&pictureid=1402312&thumb=1]View Image[/url] Triple Diesel

Broad mites are the #1 cause of dudding. Getting rid of them entirely is a dream. It becomes a preventative situation every run. And I am very careful. Once they are in. ya better control them. But complete eradication ain't gonna happen.

Sooooo many peoples' gardens are suffering around here, and people blame it on the genetics (in the case of the gorilla glue clone, i.e - tossing a certain percentage of flowering plants every run) or specific nutrients such as Gravity.

Ignore BM/Cyclamen/Russet Mites at your peril. After 70 indoor runs, and 8 years of greenies in Nor Cal, they wiped me out. And they are here in the Midwest MMJ state I reside in now, as well. Big Time.

The recovery from the BM's was difficult, expensive, and infuriating.

Click to expand...

So you did get rid of them and recover? what about:

"Broad mites are the #1 cause of dudding. Getting rid of them entirely is a dream. It becomes a preventative situation every run. And I am very careful. Once they are in. ya better control them. But complete eradication ain't gonna happen."
-SamS

Anyone that puts all their eggs in one basket will be very disappointed if they then get duds from another cause, I say be wary of a single cause, life is not that simple.
-SamS

RetroGrow said:

There is not a single confirmed case of stem nematodes in Cannabis. Not one.What's actually going on in these imagined scenarios is fusarium/verticillium, Imo. Any immune system booster will mitigate/prevent infection.

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Are you so sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jj3m_lOzak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfJfMgmIiTs

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743&page=76
post #1127

Ya I'd NEVER say never about anything. <==Except that. Lol

hey thank you lux

Storm Shadow said:

Stem Nematodes

I haven't had a DUD since using Chitosan....

Broad Mites can be killed with ease... They are a Joke at this point

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I just spent the last four hours reading about duds.
Where can i find a good supplier for chitosan? What is the application rate?
Does pylon actually work?
Thanks for all the info i just wish IC wasnt full of people wanting to talk shit to each other. This is a community but maybe it is symbolic of the way the world is turning.
Cheers and thanks again

My theory is that the stem nematodes ( alfalfa nematodes) were spread very far and wide during the last few years due to a tea recipe using alfalfa meal.. stem nematodes can hibernate for a VERY long time and i think they were just chilling in the alfalfa meal. then used in the teas and given to all the plants and spread from there..

Sam_Skunkman said:

Are you so sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jj3m_lOzak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfJfMgmIiTs

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743&page=76
post #1127

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Well, the first picture, I see orange something...very blurry, the second I see orange something with some type of small worm. Doesn't mean that's a stem nematode, or that the picture was cannabis at all. The third picture, I see root knots.
Still, not a single positive lab test for stem nematodes in Cannabis. If these were so prevalent, as suggested, where are the lab tests? If you had an unknown pathogen in your Cannabis plants, wouldn't you want a lab to test it? Especially in California, where it's legal, and they have testing facilities?

Even though its legal, testing is still not easily accessible nor cheap

Its in the roots!!! Stress and competition from mycos, methinks

RetroGrow said:

Well, the first picture, I see orange something...very blurry, the second I see orange something with some type of small worm. Doesn't mean that's a stem nematode, or that the picture was cannabis at all. The third picture, I see root knots.
Still, not a single positive lab test for stem nematodes in Cannabis. If these were so prevalent, as suggested, where are the lab tests? If you had an unknown pathogen in your Cannabis plants, wouldn't you want a lab to test it? Especially in California, where it's legal, and they have testing facilities?

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I am pretty sure I see nematodes, but yes I would lab test, if I had the plants. Or use a stronger better scope to see them. Or both.
Anyway stem nematodes have been found in Cannabis, so that is not a question. How widespread they are is the real question. And are they a real problem, do they cause dudds? How easy can they spread in soil like a backyard garden or indoors in pots? How to eliminate from plants, soil, and anyplace else they are, like on seed coats?
-SamS

Can you use pylon for nematodes ( just curious?) spray or drench?

Vintage1969 said:

Can you use pylon for nematodes ( just curious?) spray or drench?

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There are lots of different types of nematodes, including "beneficial". What type do you think you have?

I put my white fire I got from a guy I don't know at all in quarantine for 8 wks. Usually I would spray with avid but I was busy and didn't have time. After about 4 weeks of no mites I decided just to watch it and not spray for mites. So after 8 wks in quarantine I put the clone into my veg room.

Plant looks perfect like all of my other plants. My point is why not throw any plant that is not beautiful into the compost? Move on and stop wasting time on dudds, whatever may be the cause.

it is worth it to create a quarantine protocol that includes a dedicated small space that you dont mind spraying in or rather dipping small batches of prefered regimens in. you can then root gifted snips and not bring anything into your grow, or at least dramatically minimize the odds.
dont expose grow to new cuts. process and clone them in the separate space that has room to provide them with a gentle breeze, a heat mat set to 78, a dome and tray of some sort, , temp control +- 5 deg. kept at high 70s early 80s,and a mild but substantial light source 1-4 t5 bulbs (half an 8 bank switched off). an enclosed and reasonably stable environment. the space must have long enough term access to grow em out a little and look through at least a 200x scope.
get familiar with everything. the infirmary threads are good for that. develop an ipm for getting rid of anything it could possibly have and implement. discard of cutting once you are able to clone successfully and never flower or consume. only bring them in after all that as fresh bare snips into your room and root them in cubes media or a cloner there.
treating bugs with a pint of mixed gross shit is a lot safer than aerosolizing it in your work space and unnecessarily coating thousands of square feet. especially if its with a plant foliar spray that doesnt work well as a contact surface decontaminant and isnt safe to be exposed to. remember that the studies of half life are in a lot of cases dependant on uv light that you cant replicate efficiently all over your room at all times as strong as the sun.for example, bifenthren in attain bombs will last in your room for a long time and even show up in good tests many months after usage and cleaning.it doesnt clean up with soap and water really at all. its gross. same with piperonyl butoxide.its in those stupid tr pyrethrum bombs. check out extracts that are tested for these two compounds. it will blow you mind how many samples at least ping that were grown in rooms that havent been treated in over a year.
those bombs can dose up 10,000 square feet.

the heat treatments retro espouses are also the shit. let room get up high as shit, 122 if there are plants.dont use fans with plants.

dont forget hot water. home water heaters on highest setting will often exceed 140 from the tap. that will kill anything in under ten minutes and a lot of things practically on contact. its a great disinfectant for old pots.


fuck having bugs.
fuck spraying chems in discordance with the label onto plants that are to be consumed.

Fwiw my diy aero cloner would make life a little easier. No hardening off time and no monitoring of dome humidity, they root in open air allowing you to thoroughly monitor root development and pests. Also no medium to worry about while dipping. Just pull the plug its in and flip it onto solution. Also I've been really interested in the fact that tissue culture isnpest and disease free,requires only like a leaf meaning this one quarantine cutting could yield multiple cultures. Its interesting and j might start dabbleing in it one day

This talk of broad mites and/or their toxins being the sole cause of dudding is driving me fucking bonkers. Not that broad mites and their evil ways don't cause devastation or strange, undiagnosed symptoms... but the sole cause of what people call "dudding"? It's not that simple. It's just not.

On another forum, there was mention of someone that did in fact confirm stem nematodes via lab tests - if I get proof I'll be sure to post it.

And FTR, the hemp industry has long ago confirmed stem nematodes in cannabis - so why couldn't "drug cultivars" be viable hosts to D. dipsaci as well?

This conversation always seems to pop back up while people continue to deal with "dudding" - then the disagreements/arguments cause derailment and ultimately the end of the discussion. Can't we discuss, in a civil, logical manner what the fuck is going on?

My run before last - I had several full-on duds, and a few branches throughout the room. I tossed genetics in which I'd do deplorable things to get back as a result. At the direction of a few smart individuals, I picked up a couple keys of chitosan, and applied religiously...

No duds on my recent run. Not a perfect run, but no duds. However I'm not convinced I'm in the clear... and would like to continue the discussion on this topic rather than have to sift through such a clusterfuck of bickering.

Thanks.

IGROWMYOWN said:

I think everybody that got broads from P.o. at some point can vouch for this I've seen it as well and my infection was pretty bad I didn't know what broads was at the time 07 ish? around the time they we're passing out the fake chem-d and swerve,ape, and onlyorganic we're vending.

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swerves chem d was LITERALLY the shittiest excuse for hemp I've ever seen. Ogorganic's cuts were always fine for me minus a mix up with chem d that ended up being banana og and then the chem 91 I picked up at the same time ended up being chem d...I got some shitty cuts from them but minus a few cuts I managed to revive em all to health by just presenting a good environment and keeping them in good health, and cloning generation out of their cuts really boosted their vigor/health.