Eagle20 not getting rid of PM? Help?

Dreambig said:

It sucks but with all that eagle 20 you've sprayed recently I'd be afraid to smoke that. If you smoke it take note to if you get a sore throat or not...

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Well, from my understanding, E20 is only in the plat for up to 40 days.

Even though i sprayed 2x in veg, once in transition (when I have them in the dark before flower), and once at day 4 of flower, which was my last time with the Eagle20 for my girls in bloom. I'm pretty sure those 4 sprays don't stack to being in the plant for up to 160 days.?. Up to 40 from what I have read and as low as 20.

So I'm not too sure DreamB. how you figure that my nugget will still be affected by the ill effects that the Eagle20 can carry this far out of harvest.

atak can be used right up to harvest, wont fuk'n kill ya.

myclobutanil shows up in pesticide residue test on extracts at labs if they test for it..almost none in oregon do and (like many of the insecticides used in the biz) its not required to be tested by oregon. the list is shockingly incomplete and only includess shit most folks on here not only havent used but likely have never heard of.
as of yet no one in oregon is required to test for any of ten favorite high tech chems.
this has further lead to the misconception that alot of them break down fast enough to be absent in the final product.
after spending the week at a lab and getting to see flowers of one person whom i know the growers regimin. i can say that extracts and to a lesser but none the less significant level show in flower samples . one dude who sprays only small plants in veg had eagle 20 show up while i was there.
this lab is voluntarily widening its scope of testing to include the stuff people post about using they arent failing them because the law doesnt cover this although federal pesticide laws do.
we are going to see more of this i think because the oregon testing laws an how they play out are fraudulent.some labs are trying to push for more sensible and worthwhile testing standards. it gives patients a false sense of safety checks and makes uninformed growers think its safe because its not showing up. well,,....it is, at labs that test for it and are capable of running the equpiment to meet standardized accuracy tests.
go figure, state required testing of pesticides on cannabis has turned into a colossal waste of time money and resources when it couldve been really effective with the same level of effort.
labs unable to fulfill those requirements are surprisingly more common than you'd think.

Your buddy is totally wrong its 1mil to 2mil per gallon. If you are spraying e20 on buds you shouldn't smoke those buds that's @ 2 mil!! This time of year pM is not gonna survive outside in CO you guys are breeding pm in your greenhouses & indoor grows. Your humidity is way to low! You can't grow healthy/quality MJ in 8% humidity!

dont forget not only do you have poison bud but your bud is infested with fungus (powder mildew)

Can anyone name the poison that is in Eagle20 and cite it's half-life?

Mycobutanil is the poison str8edge mentioned it earlier. Not sure there is a valid indoor half life. I have used it on moms with bacterial based preventatives afterwords and wiped it out. I didn't see any until I brought clones in from outside and brought in a more resistant variety. Now I'm not taking any new clones in..

ya no good in flower..... no matter how early.. your supposed to do in veg so that by the time your flowered any plant material that was sprayed on is already pulled off the plant or died and fell off .... supposed to use eagle 20.. to get rid... but like he said.. make sure you have something recording your temp and humidity for 2-3 days.. see whats happening.. when spikes are hitting and what not....

EclipseFour20 said:

Can anyone name the poison that is in Eagle20 and cite it's half-life?

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I can why not go into the old eagle20 thread and dig that argument up again

eagle20 is not the answer and your not the troll to be giving it

show us your proof of agricultural mastery, I already know you were off target in your professional life after one short conversation.

Don't poison the practices of this community with your method of pushing for truth through argument because you lack experience.

Those are the antiquated and very dysfunctional tools of the old school.

Back the fuck off and go back the rock from where you came.

Hey Art let me help you out.

You need to take a few things into consideration to resolve this issue.

PM is a problem that occurs because of more than one condition.

Less than optimal plant heath + exposure in the environment equates to plants with PM.

Now because I don't know the intimate details of how you grow I can only offer some less tailored advice.

This advice does not involve the use of toxins or compromise by allowing pm infected plants, it takes a lil time to correct so keep that in the equation when making a decision how to address it.

First and foremost, what you do depends on stage of development

I will assume pre-flower or on the cusp

First, you have to address the plant and its health first.

Not all plants get PM in exposed environments so plant health needs to come first, it will protect you when you lose control of your environment and if the clock is ticking you need to first eliminate it form your plants.

PM ANCHORS itself into WEAK plant cells. Not very spore, but the ones that stay.

Infections travels via spores and air currents so follow them to the source when dealing with your plants.

Turn off your fans as well when working with them.

You need to get a bucket or some water source, high PH and with some sort of fungicide (high ph will do this)

this is to remove infected materials directly into this bucket so the pm is not airborne

Now I have used green cure and other techs, but I have found that horticultural grade mineral oil is a excellent part of a addressing the solution (ty lapides)

it also works on pests, is approved in Washington state for us with cannabis.

it is an oil, use it too close to flower and you will have oil reside on your plants. It is harmless but it is still an adulterant. It has no taste but could potentially effect the consistency of concentrates.

I have bad summer bight as is common in the region and have tried many products, this one works well and works well with cannabis. It is a bit of a PITA to use. Stylet oil is the one I was suggested to use and do use albiet mostly outdoors for PM, indoors it worked well to get rid of a white fly invasion I was having issues shaking.

You need a really good sprayer and you need to shake it vigorously and very often. Big gardens will require a special sprayer.

This stuff is huge in the grape industry fwiw.

Now this is what you do

cover the grow medium so it does not get any oil on it or in it as well as any of the airborne PM which you will try to minimize.

Gently spray in infected areas and then remove them into the bucket

continue throughout your garden, when you feel you have removed ALL INFECTED TISSUES from the plant into the bucket, you have to go back and cover the plants with mineral oil.

Too much will suffocate your plants, proper application closes leaf pores making the infection impossible.

It will kill spores and I suspect it will deactivate the central infection (I don't believe it can propagate in an oil base) but is is still compromised plant material, It doesn't turn bad to good so you have to catch it early enough that you can remove it physically from the plants.

Since its airborne if you don't trap it with oil it will go all over your room and lie in wait somewhere.

If you do this correctly you have a week or two (depending on health) before they outgrow the treatment (oil does not cover new growth) so you do have a window of opportunity to clean the environment while the plants stabilize and you observe them to see if it stylet oil was effective)

Now you aren't done yet. Plant health needs to be addressed NOW. Now I can't examine how you grow and address plant health without more info but I can suggest this.

There are many new products that are designed to address this. You can naturally replicate these products but it adds a new learning curve. If interested ask an I will be glad to point you in the right direction.

These products use a variety of enzemes, bacteria, potentially amino acids and other organic compounds and organism to address plant health and do so very quickly.

I think there is one called plant rx that is a foliar, I do not know how good or bad it is. I was given several over the years to try and some are very effective and use very same and common bacteria, etc to address the issue. Basically they will boost your plant health without adding toxins to the equation but they will cost a few dollars.

You can now address environment and I suggest fans off and spraying down all surfaces before you wife to eliminate spore dispersal. I don't know if you can stage your plants in known clean environment while you clean this one so I can't offer too much in the way of how to do it without more detail.

Depending on the stage of infection you may be able to address it and keep on keeping on, if it is really bad you have to make other considerations for your health and the health of others.

Wear a mask, make sure your clothes and everything you wear is decontaminated. You have to treat it like the unseen airborne element that it is and address that airway path from intake on in your cleaning endeavors as well.

The environment has to be addressed regardless and is easier to do with nothing in it, another consideration when making the choice.

Good luck

HL45 said:

Mycobutanil is the poison str8edge mentioned it earlier. Not sure there is a valid indoor half life. .....

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I know there is a lot of "bro-science" and "stoner-logic" out there suggesting Eagle20 is "evil", but the facts do not support such a conclusion. To assist those that want to know the "facts"--here are what others have to say about "Myclobutanil"...active ingredient in Eagle20.

"Myclobutanil is a conazole class fungicide. It is used heavily to control fungi affecting wine and table grapes, especially in California. It also has a number of other food crop and commercial or residential landscaping applications. Although it has a low acute toxicity, myclobutanil has been found to affect the reproductive abilities of test animals.

Myclobutanil is registered for use on a wide range of food and feed crops. It may also be used in greenhouses, public rights of way, turf, and in landscaping applications. Cotton seeds may be treated with myclobutanil (#EPA).

California accounts for roughly 50% of all myclobutanil use in the US, using 70,000 to 90,000 lbs. annually. Grapes are the most heavily treated crop, using 60% of all myclobutanil in California. Almonds and strawberries are also account for a notable percentage of myclobutanil use in California (#EPA).

Myclobutanil has a relatively low acute toxicity. The acute oral LD50 for mice is 1360 mg/kg, and ranges from 1.75 to 1.8 g/kg for rats. Myclobutanil metabolizes into 1,2,4-triazole, which has a lower acute toxicity than the parent compound (#EPA).

Workers exposed to myclobutanil have reported symptoms such as skin rash, allergic dermatitis, itchiness, nausea, heachache, diarrhea, abdominal pain, vomiting, nosebleed, and eye irritation (CDPR).


Source: http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Myclobutanil

Is my myclobutanil carcinogenic? No...but it is on California's Prop 65 list...along with aspirin.

Here are some links to some authoritative conclusions--
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/r?dbs+hsdbterm+@DOCNO+6708
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC120#Toxicity
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/TOOLS/PNAI/pnaishow.php?id=83
http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/risk/rcd/myclobut.pdf

Like I asked, "can anyone name the poison in Eagle20?" If not...then why repeat something that is untrue? It does not increase one's credibility when they speak of falsehoods or about things which they know not of.

BTW...don't feed the troll!

EclipseFour20 said:

I know there is a lot of "bro-science" and "stoner-logic" out there suggesting Eagle20 is "evil", but the facts do not support such a conclusion. To assist those that want to know the "facts"--here are what others have to say about "Myclobutanil"...active ingredient in Eagle20.

"Myclobutanil is a conazole class fungicide. It is used heavily to control fungi affecting wine and table grapes, especially in California. It also has a number of other food crop and commercial or residential landscaping applications. Although it has a low acute toxicity, myclobutanil has been found to affect the reproductive abilities of test animals.

Myclobutanil is registered for use on a wide range of food and feed crops. It may also be used in greenhouses, public rights of way, turf, and in landscaping applications. Cotton seeds may be treated with myclobutanil (#EPA).

California accounts for roughly 50% of all myclobutanil use in the US, using 70,000 to 90,000 lbs. annually. Grapes are the most heavily treated crop, using 60% of all myclobutanil in California. Almonds and strawberries are also account for a notable percentage of myclobutanil use in California (#EPA).

Myclobutanil has a relatively low acute toxicity. The acute oral LD50 for mice is 1360 mg/kg, and ranges from 1.75 to 1.8 g/kg for rats. Myclobutanil metabolizes into 1,2,4-triazole, which has a lower acute toxicity than the parent compound (#EPA).

Workers exposed to myclobutanil have reported symptoms such as skin rash, allergic dermatitis, itchiness, nausea, heachache, diarrhea, abdominal pain, vomiting, nosebleed, and eye irritation (CDPR).


Source: http://www.toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Myclobutanil

Is my myclobutanil carcinogenic? No...but it is on California's Prop 65 list...along with aspirin.

Here are some links to some authoritative conclusions--
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search2/r?dbs+hsdbterm+@DOCNO+6708
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC120#Toxicity
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/TOOLS/PNAI/pnaishow.php?id=83
http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/risk/rcd/myclobut.pdf

Like I asked, "can anyone name the poison in Eagle20?" If not...then why repeat something that is untrue? It does not increase one's credibility when they speak of falsehoods or about things which they know not of.

BTW...don't feed the troll!

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Wow. Your time on this matter is much appreciated.

My ignorance on the Eagle20, pros and cons, are duly noted. I certainly need a deeper knowledge of how all the ingredients work with cannabis.

E20 being pure evil or not, I try to stay as organic as possible despite the decision I made to go with E20, so its likely that I try a different route next time and from here on out with my plants. I needed a quick solution, and E20 was a recommendation from my hydro shop and other trusted growers I know, as I have previously stated.

Weird said:

You can now address environment and I suggest fans off and spraying down all surfaces before you wife to eliminate spore dispersal. I don't know if you can stage your plants in known clean environment while you clean this one so I can't offer too much in the way of how to do it without more detail.

The environment has to be addressed regardless and is easier to do with nothing in it, another consideration when making the choice.

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I probably caused things to get worse with environmental spikes at the beginning in each of my rooms even though I brought it in from a cut. I strongly feel I did at least. I brought new cuts into an empty garden, so i had to ability to create a natural humidity. It was 8% when I brought the plants in and I tried to throw an older half working humidifier in the veg room to raise it and was able to get it to about 20-25%. I know thats not quite high enough, but wasn't sure how to keep raising it until the plants got big enough to create their own humidity. When my MH lights, non air cooled also, were on I certainly needed AC. But when my veg lights went off for the 4 hrs a day they went off, the temps would fall off drastically bc my window unit won't switch to the heat mode wo me doing it manually, and I was usually gone when the switch to heat needed to happen.

My window unit that was off for 4 months, along with a humidifier that was off also. Not sure if it could of came from my AC or not. Fuck I hope not or else its just continuously being recirculated.

I run 8k, 2 rows of 4, non air cooled on flood tables. I have a light load of about 20 plants flowering, but they are think to the point where I don't feel confident that I can reach every crevasse of every plant with a sprayer. As previously stated, I run both rooms sealed with plenty of air movement but no circulation with outside air.

I run a 3 ton excel air system, fairly new, only used a couple runs before this one. Though my thermostat isn't really reading correctly at times and causing the ac/heater to run when it shouldn't some and not run when it should. This caused temp problems in my flower room at first. Rocking around 40-50% RH in flower now. I am a bit worried about spores getting into my ac systems. Not so much the excel bc I have a antimicrobial bulb inside to kill shit like that that can come through. Its my window unit with the aluminum foam board box around it that gives me the most concern.

I don't have the ability to move all my plants in bloom to a clean environment so that I can clean the room wo them in the room. Last E20 spray I did, I hat the walls and the fans, and the tables with that shit in hopes of killing what was laying around. But I still need to wipe my lights and other gear down.

In short, I brought the disease in on cuts, and then further helped it along by having to dial in my room again after being off for 4 or so month and trying to cut it back on in the middle of winter.

So this is where I stand with my infection as of now.

Upon a semi decent inspection of my veg room this morning, I found things to be better than in previous days. I sprayed the veg, mostly babies in 1 gal pots, 5 days or so ago.

I am still finding some spots on some plants, not all. And the spots are not thick or clustered. Just a few spots when I find them in the think inner parts of the plant. I removed them immediately.

My flower room infection is more or less to the same degree. I find some spots, but not entire leaves covered with it. I find a spot or two on a leaf, and then find a little more in the same area of the plant.

It really is a night and day difference from a couple weeks ago. But I know if I see it, it can manifest into a bigger problem fast. I just have to keep it a bay and rom spreading to my nugget through the next 7 or so weeks. Then I can really clean my room.

As far as my veg, I am not trying to just keep it contained. I will do and use what it takes in that room to prevent this from having a better chance of popping up on my next rotation into flower.

Im an hour or so away from my hydro shop. Going there now to puck their brains some more and hopefully come back with some more answers and remedies to my situation. I keep my situation updated as it moves along.

Please feel free you guys to drop more knowledge on my rookie ass.

Thin out the insides of your plants.

You may think you're not getting massive humidity spikes, but unless you have data logged to say otherwise I can almost guarantee that you are getting a spike right after lights out.

Think about it, your room gets to 75-80f and 50%rh, when the lights go out the ac is probably still cycling for a bit which will drastically drop room temp, and because relative humity is a function of temp and absolute humidity when temp goes down relative humidity has to rise unless you can remove the water as fast as the temp drops.

As an example I recently dealt will a bit of PM, my problem was exactly as I described above, but I also had a fan supplying freezing outdoor air, it came on right before lights and off right after, also my ac would cycle during lights out even though the temp was already low. All those factors combined and led to massive humidity spikes and the eventually outbreak of PM. All I did was prune out the guts, and bottoms of the plant, sprayed once with 2ml/gal of e20, and timed all cooling to come on 10 min after the lights and go off just before the lights. My room is now pm free and I no longer deal with humidity spikes, highest it gets is right after lights off and it tops out at 40-45.

Hey Eclip did you see recent the article stating the most common fungicide used by farmers in does in fact screw up human genes! Look it up! Sometimes you gotta look @ the context the post was written in. If I say it's "raining cats & dogs" well u know! My concern is this guys is spraying this nasty shit inhaling it, getting all over his skin, & yes smoking, eating, ....it.
Furthermore i don't want the grower to get the impression that e20 is where it starts & ends with the IPM program! So I appologize for calling it poison, I should have said nasty shit!!

Perhaps a repost of one of my older postings in a different Eagle20 thread might shine some light in a few dark corners--

EclipseFour20 said:

"Andrew, we all have opinions (which I respect) but facts are facts. Myclobutanil (active ingredient of Eagle20) is NOT CARCINOGENIC and DOES NOT REMAIN IN THE PLANT FOREVER, or using your words, "Eagle 20 is on your plant FOREVER even when the "beneficial" aspects diminish you will always find a trace at a microscopic level. It's not heavy mineral deposits such as those left by lab formulated PGRS, however it is still an excess carcinogen that is not exclusively the plant fibers."

Sorry, you have it wrong.

These two posts of mine are probably the best responses to counter your opinion that I am an idiot: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5102791&postcount=977

mendo420 said:

Eagle20 is POISON.

Did anyone read the Eagle20 Label?

Do you guys think its a safe product?
...
Eagle20 is POISON.

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Did YOU read the label?

Please provide your source to support your OPINION (not fact) that Eagle is POSION. Here is the information I posted in a different thread that debunked this earlier. Eagle (and aspirin) are Prop 65 chemicals--like most of the cleaners stored under your kitchen sink--and are NOT POISON!

Damn, I hate misinformation--AKA stoner logic! Eagle is classified as a "reproductive toxicant"--not "poison". Smear it on your chest and if you are a male, you might become sterile--AND if you are a female...nothing, no toxic effect with the reproductive system.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5009177#post5009177

EclipseFour20 said:

(referring to data at this link: http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC120)
.....Now, why the skull and crossbones and PAN Bad Actor deal? You will not believe the answer.
First, what are PAN Bad Actors? "PAN Bad Actors are chemicals that are one or more of the following: highly acutely toxic, cholinesterase inhibitor, known/probable carcinogen, known groundwater pollutant or known reproductive or developmental toxicant."

So why is Myclobutanil a "Bad Actor"...any guesses? It is not what you think. The answers are in the section just past the skull and crossbones--seems that no one took the time to read it, so allow me to post it.

WHO rates Myclobutanil as "III slightly hazardous" and EPA has "no census value"...so IT IS NOT HIGHLY ACUTELY TOXIC (nope, not the first one).

Is it not a cholinesterase inhibitor....(ok, 2 down a few more to go)

As for Myclobutanil being a carcinogen, US EPA classifies it as a "Category E Unlikely" (Category E: Probably not carcinogenic, with no evidence of carcinogenicity in at least two adequate animal tests in different species in adequate epidemiologic and animal studies. (3 down...)

Groundwater rating...insufficient data, hmmm is this the qualifier for being a Pan Bad Actor?....nah, 4 down and no dingers yet.

It seems that like almost all chemicals (we have all seen those California Prop 65 signs/warnings about reproductive or developmental toxicants....well, guess what--that is the sole reason Myclobutanil it is a PAN Bad Actor.
​

Got it...all the hysteria cuz, it is a Prop 65 chemical. Too funny...most everything under my kitchen sink came with a Prop 65 warning, in fact--the Riedel Crystal wine glasses I got for Christmas came with the Prop 65 warning...lead glass is used to make crystal. Don't gas stations have Prop 65 warning signs posted too?

For a complete list of Prop 65 chems....http://www.oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/files/P65single021712.pdf....which includes a dangerous pill called "aspirin"....lol.

So lets see....1 ml per gallon, foliar spray on leaves, 5 day foliar half life, 90% gone in 21 days...1 gallon will service how many plants in veg?...hmmm, what was the question again? Is Eagle safe? Where is the proof that it is not?....waiting....

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EclipseFour20 said:

It effect males reproductive systems only--"Male reproductive toxicity -- Myclobutanil: Exposure to Myclobutanil, a recognized reproductive toxicant, can negatively affect the male reproductive system. Myclobutanil is used mainly as a fungicide. The severity and nature of the adverse effect is variable and can be influenced by factors such as level of exposure and individual sensitivity to the chemical. Effects on the male reproductive system can include such things as altered sexual behavior, altered fertility and problems with sperm shape or count."

http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/m/male_reproductive_toxicity_myclobutanil/intro.htm

I am a guy...and not worried.

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And this post--https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5285292&postcount=89

EclipseFour20 said:

Let me add a few logs to the fire....

Field experiments were conducted in two different locations to determine the dissipation pattern and residue levels of myclobutanil in tobacco leaves and soil. Myclobutanil 12.5 % microemulsion (ME) formulation was sprayed once at 3.0 mL/ha, and the residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days. The dissipation rate of myclobutanil in soil was lower than that in green tobacco leaves. The residues dissipated above 50 % of the initial deposits 7 days after treatment and dissipated about 90 % after 42 days. The calculated half-life values (T (1/2)) were found to be 4.89-6.77 days in green tobacco leaves and 12.88-19.20 days in soil, respectively. The ultimate residues of myclobutanil in flue-cured tobacco leaves and soil were determined after the third and fourth applications at levels of 2.0 and 3.0 mL/ha. Myclobutanil residues in cured tobacco leaves 21 days after the last treatment ranged from 0.85 to 3.27 mg/kg. Meanwhile, the residues detected in soil reached below 0.045 mg/kg 21 days after the last treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22415649

And if you spray Eagle20 before flower buds form, the actual buds will have close to zero residue. Although myclobutanil is a systemic, it does not have any significant translocation properties. Meaning once sprayed--the ingredients do not move within the plant (like transferring from leaf to leaf...or leaf to bud)--according to these two studies-

A greenhouse 14C RH-3866 (myclobutanil 14C radiolabelled in the phenyl or triazole ring) study to assess the translocation indicates no significant amount of 14C residues was translocated from the treated leaf to the roots or foliage in grape and apple seedlings. However RH-3866 was easily absorbed from a nutrient solution by the roots and translocated in wheat and grape seedlings.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2011/sc-hc/H113-27-2010-14-eng.pdf

Over a 12 day period under greenhouse conditions, a constant uptake of myclobutanil from leaflet surfaces into the leaflet tissue was observed. Once in the leaflet, myclobutanil was seen to redistribute throughout the tissue, although no movement out of leaflets occurred owing to a lack of phloem mobility.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18683908

Hope this helps!

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Does it stay for ever?..."residues in green tobacco leaves dissipated to more than 50 % of the initial deposits 5 days after application and up to above 90 % after 21 days." ...and "As for Myclobutanil being a carcinogen, US EPA classifies it as a "Category E Unlikely" (Category E: Probably not carcinogenic..."

Now...that's my science, let's see yours.

Cheers!"[/I]

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AND...this post regarding residual calculations--

EclipseFour20 said:

Reality check...any proof (as in scientific...3rd party stuff) that using 0.75-1.0 ml of Eagle20 per gallon for foliar spraying is dangerous to ANYONE or ANYTHING (but powdery mildew)?

1 ml of Eagle20 contains 0.197 ml of active ingredient.
1 ml of Eagle20 diluted in 1 gallon equates to a dilution rate where...
1 ml of spray contains 0.0000520475561426684 ml of active ingredient.

Using a low velocity, low pressure "paint sprayer" I can spray 40+ plants with less than 32 oz of spray. So, lets make it easy, 32 plants with 32 oz of spray, or 1 oz of spray per plant.

So...0.197 ml of active ingredient (1ml of Eagle20 in a gallon of water) divided by 128 oz is equal to 0.0015390625 ml per oz...which is the same per plant, yes? Maybe not, since 100% of the spray does not land on the plant (overspray) and we have a thing called breakdown (as evidenced by half-life) the actual residual amount of active ingredient that lands on a plant is certainly less than 0.0015390625 ml...maybe half that? or could it be closer to 10% (if so, then add another zero to the right of the decimal point).

Now...how many buds per plant? Say 3 zips per plant, and average bud is 1 gram (lets make it easy), so that should be about 83.5 grams per plant. Lets divide 0.0015390625 ml by 83.5....and now each bud could have 0.000018000730994152 ml of active ingredient...and that is BEFORE factoring in things like breakdown/residual (60 days from spray day) and how much of the spray actually lands on the plant. Like I said, adding another zero or two might be more accurate in guestimating how much Eagle20 is in a bud.

IMHO, if there are too many zeros to the right of the decimal point for it to matter, then the issue is probably not significant and not very important to worry about--probably more danger in touching a dollar bill than smoking a bud that was responsibly treated with Eagle20 (the germ count on a dollar bill is greater than 0.000018000730994152)!

Like I said, time for a little "reality check"!

Cheers!

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High altitude growing is a completely different ballgame!!

Not start shit but fuck the EPA! They are corrupt! How one uses E20 is important!

gratefulart said:

So this is my 1st ever case of PM and I now see the nastiness that I have seen fellow growers speak of. Not knowing what it was initially, I let it get so bad at one point in my veg room that the spores were rolling off the leaves like snow.

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^ This is where you really fucked up.

You already fucked up by bringing in clones to a new environment without a preventative program in place... but by letting it flourish, you really didn't help yourself out.

But I feel for you man, and I'm sure this will be a learning experience for you so I won't rag on you too hard

I've been lucky enough to never been overrun with a prolific PM outbreak, but have always been proactive with regular prevention using horticultural oil, neem, actinovate, and OGB Foliar Pack (which carries the same anti-PM microbes as serenade, actinovate and others).

I live in the PM capital of planet Earth, where wine and table grape growers constantly face a futile battle with PM. The difference with us though, is we can control our environment 100%, they're not so lucky.

I agree with the fact that you need to get your environment up to snuff... I don't know how scientific this is, but it seems as though there is a PM strain that flourishes in low humidity, and one in high humidity. Or, it's just the fact that growers in arid climates see harder humidity spikes at night? Not sure, but at any rate, you need to find out what your humidity and temps doing at night with at least a cheap max/min digital thermometer/hygrometer.

Get your environment as stable as possible and plants as healthy as possible.

Look into preventative measures, and products that can be used in flower such as Actinovate/OGB foliar if you must keep your current flower run.

Also, I've never used Eagle 20 so I don't know if it contains it's own wetting agent, but are you using any sort of surfactant/wetting agent when applying? That could partially be why you're not seeing success. But again, I've never used it.

But ALWAYS use a wetting agent. If your water/solution/pesticides are "beading" off of the foliage and not evenly covering the the leaf, you're not properly applying and the effectiveness of whatever you're spraying is greatly reduced. When applied properly with a wetting agent, it will look like a "shimmer" rather than water beads on an oily surface. Ya dig?

Though some products already contain a wetting agent/surfactant...

Good luck man!