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Eagle20 not getting rid of PM? Help?

gratefulart

Member
Let me start by saying hello, its been a while since I've been on the mag and when I do hop back on I always get the answers that I'm looking for here. I have spent a extensive amount of time reading the sticky and other PM cure threads on icmag but usually like to come here and post when all else fails.

So this is my 1st ever case of PM and I now see the nastiness that I have seen fellow growers speak of. Not knowing what it was initially, I let it get so bad at one point in my veg room that the spores were rolling off the leaves like snow.

After 2 sprays with Eagle20 in my veg room it looked gone and I need to flip about 20 or so of my big girls. I put em in the dark for a couple days to flip and saw more spots. I have been tacitly cleaning out all the infected spots that I can see, but my girls are super think and I feel its close to impossible to see and cut out all infected areas in my entire grow.

I have since sprayed Eagle20 twice more, 4 times total now, and I am still seeing spots. Im at the end of week 1 in flower and don't want to keep spraying Eagle20 on my nugget. My veg plants are tiny in some cases, and I am 100% sure that every small surface area of those plants did get hit with the E20, yet it still keeps coming back on even my small plants.

I read about air circulation, or lack there of, being a issue and helping PM spread. I run sealed rooms in veg and flower. No air circulation really from room to outside, BUT, the air movement in both rooms is abundant with all the wall fans I have going. I have even sprayed my walls and fans and flood tables with E20.

I have a window unit in my veg room w/ a aluminum foam box built around the back to exhaust the excess window unit heat outside. All of which is inside my veg room. Can PM get into my ac and exhaust box?

In short, I need to keep it at bay from getting to my buds on this crop, make sure spores aren't lingering around my flower room. I need to kill it out of my veg plants so I can keep my genetics, I cannot afford to start my grow over at this moment, and I need to kill all spores hanging around on all the nooks and crannies of my rooms without raising the temps to a point that the plants get damaged.

So the PM Kill ALL, Eagle20, isn't doing the trick. Should I use a bomb to kill the lingering spores? A milk solution to keep it at bay on my flowering plants? Sulfur burners in each room (not really sure if sulfur hurts my flowering plants) ? So many "possible solutions" i have read about on here, E20 being the most popular but not cutting it surprisingly.

So prob like any grower that gets this nasty problem for the first time, Im sort of freakin out maaaaan. :wallbash:
Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read and answer. :tiphat:
 

HL45

Active member
Veteran
You probably have a humidity spike during lights off and all of your equipment and surface hace pm spores on them. Have you cleaned all the nooks and crannies... Pm is inside the plant and you only see it when it blooms. When used correcy (e20) it works but if your environment isn't dialed and you keep spraying your just making a resistant variety.

What are your parameters...lights on and off? If your environment is dialed you won't have issues with it resurfacing
 
Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Pm is everywhere (Ac, exhaust box, your dog, your clothes).

E20 is designed to be used in combination with other products. Check the label it has instructions for the types of products to use in combination. PM develops a resistance to E20. The solution is more complex than just spraying E20.

E20 is sold for PM control on golf courses. Be careful using it and check out the combo products it recommends on label.

I have always heard to never spray E20 in bloom. After reading the label I agree with that. I have even heard if you really want to get the E20 out of the plants you need to take new cuts. Then you grow out new mothers after the PM if gone and E20 use has stopped.

Bleach, cleaning, air flow and temp control have always worked for me. Overcrowding the plants is a big factor for many people having issues. If you crowd the plants everything else has to be perfect or PM will show up.

Try this: set up your temp control to work by time and temp. Have your room start warming up 1 hour before the lights turn on. Get room up to day time temps before the lights start. This can help keep the plants drier in the first hours of light. An Arduino is the easiest way I know to build a controller that can control heaters with temp and time. More heaters and simple timers could also do it.

I am assuming you are running proper temp and humity controls 24/7 but if you are not then start there.

Good Luck!
 

gratefulart

Member
You probably have a humidity spike during lights off and all of your equipment and surface hace pm spores on them. Have you cleaned all the nooks and crannies... Pm is inside the plant and you only see it when it blooms. When used correcy (e20) it works but if your environment isn't dialed and you keep spraying your just making a resistant variety.

What are your parameters...lights on and off? If your environment is dialed you won't have issues with it resurfacing


At first my environmental conditions were not as ideal as possible in regards to the temps. They were spiking up and down, but my RH was super low bc I was just getting my grow started again. Like 10-12% low. I live in CO at 9kft, so the natural RH is around 8%. I brought a humidifier in my veg room early to get the RH up to around 20. So to answere your question...

Veg room
lights on: Ive bumped temps to around 74-76 RH at around 15-20% bc I just moved all my big girls to flower which made the RH drop again
Lights off: the same right now, plants are still under T5s rather than MHL's just yet.

Flower room
Lights on: Around 76 to 81.... just put a heater in my excel 3ton I i believe my thermostat isn't reading entirely correct. I have multiple humidistats taking different reading and one or two seem to be on based on how it feels in the room. Rh w lights on is around 30-40%.
Lights off: Around 73-76 at a RH of also 30-40%.

These conditions are current and not what the conditions were when the PM started to spread. It is also worth noting that I am pretty sure I brought it in off some cuts I didn't check good enough before I brought them in. All of those cuts are in flower now, and have 2 cuts from them in solo cups now to keep the genetics in case they are worth keeping. I am contemplating on killing those 2 cuts based on the fact that one or both of those strains are the original PM carriers in this case, and they still might be carrying.

Im running sealed with CO2 at 1450-1550 ppm.
Will an anti fungal bomb take care of the spores in every nook and cranny?

Thanks for your time on this
 

gratefulart

Member
Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Pm is everywhere (Ac, exhaust box, your dog, your clothes).

E20 is designed to be used in combination with other products. Check the label it has instructions for the types of products to use in combination. PM develops a resistance to E20. The solution is more complex than just spraying E20.

E20 is sold for PM control on golf courses. Be careful using it and check out the combo products it recommends on label.

I have always heard to never spray E20 in bloom. After reading the label I agree with that. I have even heard if you really want to get the E20 out of the plants you need to take new cuts. Then you grow out new mothers after the PM if gone and E20 use has stopped.

Bleach, cleaning, air flow and temp control have always worked for me. Overcrowding the plants is a big factor for many people having issues. If you crowd the plants everything else has to be perfect or PM will show up.

Try this: set up your temp control to work by time and temp. Have your room start warming up 1 hour before the lights turn on. Get room up to day time temps before the lights start. This can help keep the plants drier in the first hours of light. An Arduino is the easiest way I know to build a controller that can control heaters with temp and time. More heaters and simple timers could also do it.

I am assuming you are running proper temp and humity controls 24/7 but if you are not then start there.

Good Luck!


Thanks GratefulOne... 13 points red and blue through and through

I was unaware that PM is a super species and could build up a resistance to Eagle20. Kind of crazy something could build up resistance to something so toxic.
Should I take my foam box a part and clean it all on the inside, how would I get it out of my window unit also if its in there. It seems nonpracticle to me that I would be able to disinfect all aspects of my room i guess.
 

gratefulart

Member
I am open to hearing anyones suggestions on this problem as to what works and as to what is safe for my plants in flower.
I already know I won't be spraying Eagle20 while in flower even though I have heard from around DenCO and on here that it is possibly okay to use through week 2 or 3. I don't feel good about that. So I reckon I might try the 10:1 water:skim milk solution that I have been reading about on here.
Definitely open other options that are safe for my nugget though.

Also thinking of putting sulfur burners in both rooms. Does anyone have expierence with sulfur burners? Are they safe to use in flower? What brands if so?

Thanks guys... Im tweaking:bashhead:
 
Hey Now!

Read the E20 inside label. It touches on the basics of it gaining resistance.

Window units are designed to handle water. You could spray bleach water into it. Better yet take the cover off and spray the inside air loop. It is only a few screws.

If you’re running tight on budget think about risk/reward. If this crop goes moldy where will that leave you? Would it be better to start fresh and have higher change of success? Both options suck but think about it.
 
N

noyd666

lots of growers having success with this product, is on threads here, I have just received some but have only used on new plants from seed after a clean out room, had small out break but as you know will take off. in concentrate or ready to go. best of luck this is big problem.
is available from monster gardens if in us.11bucks =small concentrate. ready to use=24 litre 78 bucks, all diff sizes. can be used lights on.
 

TheOutlawTree

Active member
I don't use eagle 20 as it is a harsh chemical- you can tell by the way it smells. But I will tell you eagle 20 has a shelf life and if its been sitting around for a while its probably no good.

Im going to be trying Novozymes Actinovate for the run im doing now. I don't have any signs of PM but its important to use preventative maintenance.
 

Allendawg

Member
PM spores are everywhere the spores activate when conditions are right! That being said you don't wanna keep growing spores in a sealed room! Genetics, environment, & proper nutritional program are your best defense! Looks like you have been spraying way too much you don't need a lot the plant will absorb it. It's takes about 40 days(I think) for Eagle 20 (systemic) to leave the plants system! There are tons of organic solutions to kill PM by contact but they only knock it down!
 

Allendawg

Member
"Rolling off leaves like snow" that's a serious outbreak! If it took you that long to notice it chances are you've had it before! PM is so common that you should be checking your plants weekly especially in a seal room! Right before your lights come on or right after they turn off; in the dark inspect your grow with a small flash light you will see the white on the leaves! Remember it's already in the plants system you need to act immediately!
 

oneofus

Member
I agree with Outlaw Tree...could be too old

also, and not to be insulting, but, if you're using from concentrate are you certain you are measuring correctly?

sometimes the simplest things escape us...myself included
 
N

noyd666

"Rolling off leaves like snow" that's a serious outbreak! If it took you that long to notice it chances are you've had it before! PM is so common that you should be checking your plants weekly especially in a seal room! Right before your lights come on or right after they turn off; in the dark inspect your grow with a small flash light you will see the white on the leaves! Remember it's already in the plants system you need to act immediately!

:tiphat: I noticed with lights on and grow room glasses on I could see the tell tale white..
 

gratefulart

Member
I agree with Outlaw Tree...could be too old

also, and not to be insulting, but, if you're using from concentrate are you certain you are measuring correctly?

sometimes the simplest things escape us...myself included

Thanks everyone for the input :tiphat:

I will check the bottle and read its specs. The first couple of sprays my buddy gave me a syringe and said use 5ml/gal. I didn't question or research it, my dumbass fault, bc he and other growers I know in the area said it was the "Kill all" to pm. Last couple sprays I had a bottle from another friend and just went off his recommendation also. Last time I don't look into it further myself.

Yea. It was pretty thick. I have been taking a break for about 4 or so months and then brought new cuts in my room. Seriously the first time I've seen it, ever. Been growing for a short 3 or so years on a serious level and never had an issue. It definitely came from not inspecting all the foreign cuts well enough. Then I thought it might have just been dirty water spots at first. Never had a reason to inspect for it and learned that it spreads like wild fire.

Anyone with experience with using sulfur burners or anti fungal bombs to rid it from sitting around your room?
 

jump /injack

Member
Veteran
A home made recipe for PM

A home made recipe for PM

PM spores are everywhere the spores activate when conditions are right! That being said you don't wanna keep growing spores in a sealed room! Genetics, environment, & proper nutritional program are your best defense! Looks like you have been spraying way too much you don't need a lot the plant will absorb it. It's takes about 40 days(I think) for Eagle 20 (systemic) to leave the plants system! There are tons of organic solutions to kill PM by contact but they only knock it down!

I have looked for the information about Eagle 20, how long it lasted on the plant and I see that you used "I think," so this is a guess?

One thing that I made up seems to work but haven't gotten my mixtures down yet. Garlic has been used for mildew and insects for a long time. I've mixed up a batch of 5 cloves of garlic [cleaned and crushed or chopped] and put them into a pint jar of water to let the oil leach out for about 3 days, run it through a strainer and add 1/4tsp of potassium bi-carbonate and mix well. I put some in a quart mister, about 1/2 cup then fill it with water and add a spreader or liquid soap, couple of drops and shake it up. Spray the plants out of the sun and let dry. This is POTASSIUM bi caronate, not sodium bi carbonate. These two items have been used by horticulturists for decades but combining them was my idea. I'm still trying to get my garlic contribution down as the smell is heavy. Use the bare minimum or your weed will smell like spaghetti and meat balls. Kills the PM though, you can see the stuff and it looks dead, watch the amount of garlic oil. You can make a gallon of this stuff for peanuts, takes 3 days to leach out the oil and its Potassium bi carbonate. If it works for you post it up.
 
N

noyd666

SPAG AN MEAT BALLS good :biggrin:, cloves are good for home made mold remover on walls in house ,damp wood beams. DON"T KNOW ABOUT ON CANNA PLANTS?
 

Tyga

Active member
Veteran
If E20 didnt wipe out the PM , PM will laugh at that milk/water ratio. If done lots of research on PM also and am still battling it. Once the spores are in the air only way Ive seen to combat it will be the E20 and your enviroment. Because spores will always stay in the air and are just waiting for a humidity spike. Granted without E20 PM will pop up even with a dialed enviroment. I personally just use greencure... Its cheap enough.. And keeps PM at bay for 7-10 days. 1 foliar spray every 10 days I look at as basic prevenative anyways. Thats just my 2 cents.. Try a sulfur burner in Veg...
 

gratefulart

Member
If E20 didnt wipe out the PM , PM will laugh at that milk/water ratio. If done lots of research on PM also and am still battling it. Once the spores are in the air only way Ive seen to combat it will be the E20 and your enviroment. Because spores will always stay in the air and are just waiting for a humidity spike. Granted without E20 PM will pop up even with a dialed enviroment. I personally just use greencure... Its cheap enough.. And keeps PM at bay for 7-10 days. 1 foliar spray every 10 days I look at as basic prevenative anyways. Thats just my 2 cents.. Try a sulfur burner in Veg...

Thanks Tyga

The more I read on sulfur burning, the more I come to the conclusion that its not the best method in flower. A veg sulfur burn seems much more practile.
Perhaps the Eagle20 has done a better job than I thought? I still see some spots and I sprayed 2 days ago. Would those spots still exist after hit by the E20. I know some of the spots that are there now, or just till i cut them off, I certainly did not miss with the E20. So I'm not sure if they are active spores, or spots from before that are dead now?


As for the milk solution. I am still not opposed to trying it out to see, or at least delving into its research a little more.
Crazy Composer started a thread on the milk topic last fall that is pretty deep, and imo, certainly worth the read if you are wondering about how it works.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=294171
 

Dreambig

Member
I had pm for a a few runs I used eagle 20 to control it worked for the most part. The only way I was able get rid of it was to flower everything, let the room sit for a few week, and I cleaned out old plant material from room. Then started from seeds and never take clones from ANYBODY I haven't seen it on anything it's been about 2 years all I spray is the neem,aloe etc... By coot. I run sealed rooms, mini split, co2.
It sucks but with all that eagle 20 you've sprayed recently I'd be afraid to smoke that. If you smoke it take note to if you get a sore throat or not...
 

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