O
OptionDork
My point is provide some valuable input. To this point your posts look like spam.
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Fulvic Acid
- Thread starter analogcricket
- Start date
please choose option b...
A. All others
B. Bio-Ag
A. All others
B. Bio-Ag
O
OptionDork
LMAO! Yeah well when it comes to a fulvic acid product not much better out there than BioAg's Ful-Power Humic.
Dr. Faust knows his shit.
squatcrayon
New member
I am not sure if you have read my previous posts or the questions I was answering. The questions asked have been one-liners and I have responded in kind. I think you commented on one of my posts about humic acids where I wrote out what I knew about humic acid extraction and the skepticism I felt towards the methods used to evaluate them and a suggestion of what would be better.
I don't think this is the right place to be talking about this. If you have an issue with my posts take it up in messages compared to a general open forum..
Anyways let me elaborate to my previous comment for this particular Q so it is not considered spam...
I have tried Dirt M.D., it is a newer product. They were giving out free samples and I got me one of them. It worked for me, really easy to use and was effective in increasing the vigor of my plants.. I have hear about Ful-power and know people swear by it but I don't buy their extraction technology as it is not really clear what they do. The extraction and the denaturation does not make sense to me so if you or anyone else can find something that explains their process I would appreciate it. Want to learn more before I try it..
I don't think this is the right place to be talking about this. If you have an issue with my posts take it up in messages compared to a general open forum..
Anyways let me elaborate to my previous comment for this particular Q so it is not considered spam...
I have tried Dirt M.D., it is a newer product. They were giving out free samples and I got me one of them. It worked for me, really easy to use and was effective in increasing the vigor of my plants.. I have hear about Ful-power and know people swear by it but I don't buy their extraction technology as it is not really clear what they do. The extraction and the denaturation does not make sense to me so if you or anyone else can find something that explains their process I would appreciate it. Want to learn more before I try it..
I picked up a sample bag of that Dirt M.D. at the SF Garden Expo also (maybe 2-4 ounces) and haven't been able to try it yet. I honestly don't think I have enough to make an informed decision either way but I plan to give it a go next round anyway.
I have used a myriad of Humic/Fulvic products over the last few years and haven't really settled yet. I liked FlavorFul from Humboldt nutrients, but it's really dark and contains more than Fulvic. G.O. Diamond Black really let me down, so did Botanicare Fulvex and Organicare Humega. Mad Farmer N.U.T.S. did work fine for me, I saw noticeable results, but I want to continue to experiment and the Bio-Ag Ful-Power is next in line to test based on what I am seeing here.
I am going to contact BioAg and see what they say about the refining process. When I get a response I will let you all know what they do and maybe some insight as to why.
O
OptionDork
OK so looked at Dirt M.D. stuff and...
...one thing I'll say is at least their claim of humic acid content is reasonable compared to many other companies in the retail market. I don't know how they can claim a 'balanced formulation of humic and fulvic acids' and then not say what their fulvic acid content is. The reason they are not saying what their fulvic acid content is there is currently NO AOAC approved method to determine fulvic acid content!
This thread is in some ways intertwined with this IC Mag thread about the 'best' humic acid product so there's a bit of redundancy:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=238985
After looking a bit more at the Dirt M.D. stuff it rang a bell regarding SumaGrow and wonder if there's a connection and seems to be. Appears the Dirt M.D. stuff is almost the substrate or basis for SumaGrow.
As for BioAg I did visit the company and spend time in person with Dr. Faust. I was working on helping to develop a main stream agriculture product and treaded into humic/fulvic territory.
If you want to see what I'm saying about fulvic acid call A&L Western Agriculture Lab in Cali. I've dealt with them. I've also dealt a lot with Lawrence Mayhew who headed an industry group specifically focused on getting an AOAC approved fulvic acid test method implemented. They should be done by now. I've also spent a lot of time dealing with John Kempf of Advancing Eco-Agriculture who developed Huma-Carb which seems to have some correlations to Dirt M.D. yet Huma-Carb will test well above 20% humic acid, not humic salt, content. If you can separate the humic suspension content in Huma-Carb the resultant liquid is just as gold as Ful-Power Humic from Bio-Ag.
The thing is large scale agriculture peeps determine product efficacy by field testing, plant tissue testing, sap analysis, product quality and yield. Canna growers depend on what they 'think' is happening or what they think they 'see' is happening or what their friends think/see what is happening as most grow on a closet scale and not open acreage and buy into a lot of what retail product companies advertise. There's a world of difference.
squatcrayon
New member
When I picked up the sample of Dirt M.D., one of the guys mentioned the FA conc was 2%. They said it was tested by a lab recommended by IHSS (http://www.humicsubstances.org/).
My understanding is the IHSS testing is sort of the gold standard. I think even BioAg's FAQ have mentioned this particular group. The only other humic group I am aware of is the HPTA (http://www.humictrade.org/), this is the industry group associated with humic substance manufacturers.
I am unaware of the AOAC and an industry organization that is trying get the fulvic acid testing standardized.. Do you have some info that I can read up on? I went to the AOAC website and could not find the fulvic testing part.
I am not sure about the SumaGrow and other comparisons but after reading the respective websites, kinda see what you are saying. Sort of a mix bag of things under a title name compared to straight humic/fulvic as advertised/provided by BioAg?
I agree on the Ag/Canna comparison. Large Ag has a lot more tools and money to figure out what is what. That's why we have such forums to help us transfer knowledge along with share experiences to help everyone.
My understanding is the IHSS testing is sort of the gold standard. I think even BioAg's FAQ have mentioned this particular group. The only other humic group I am aware of is the HPTA (http://www.humictrade.org/), this is the industry group associated with humic substance manufacturers.
I am unaware of the AOAC and an industry organization that is trying get the fulvic acid testing standardized.. Do you have some info that I can read up on? I went to the AOAC website and could not find the fulvic testing part.
I am not sure about the SumaGrow and other comparisons but after reading the respective websites, kinda see what you are saying. Sort of a mix bag of things under a title name compared to straight humic/fulvic as advertised/provided by BioAg?
I agree on the Ag/Canna comparison. Large Ag has a lot more tools and money to figure out what is what. That's why we have such forums to help us transfer knowledge along with share experiences to help everyone.
I've been using BioAg for awhile now and love it, but decided to pick up a small 2 oz. package of dried fulvic acid soluble powder from RAW to just try it out.
Any experiences out there? BioAg Ful-power is the shit, but because its basically water it's so bulky and expensive as well. I'm looking to see if soluble powders can do the same job or better. Thanks!
Any experiences out there? BioAg Ful-power is the shit, but because its basically water it's so bulky and expensive as well. I'm looking to see if soluble powders can do the same job or better. Thanks!
BioAg is great but very expensive to use for root drench, I only use it as a foliar application and ful humix in soil.
Kelp4less fulvic is total crap, plants didn't respond, product smells horrible, I hated mixing it up more than any other product I have used.
I tested by adding it to round up and spraying weeds in rockbed and also spraying a strip without fulvic added. There was no difference between the 2 tests.
Save your money..
Kelp4less fulvic is total crap, plants didn't respond, product smells horrible, I hated mixing it up more than any other product I have used.
I tested by adding it to round up and spraying weeds in rockbed and also spraying a strip without fulvic added. There was no difference between the 2 tests.
Save your money..
http://micromaxx.ca/fluvic-acid/
They are re bottled by several companies I believe. Same cost as Diamond Nectar.
They are re bottled by several companies I believe. Same cost as Diamond Nectar.
I too have heard of BioAg Ful Power it seems to be a high quality product, but pricey.
I think Krap4Less fulvic acid is junk for anything but soil and not even the best choice there either.
Look for a cheap quality powder, not dark!
my 2 pence
shag
I think Krap4Less fulvic acid is junk for anything but soil and not even the best choice there either.
Look for a cheap quality powder, not dark!
my 2 pence
shag
The American Association Of Plant Food Chemist Officials (AAPFCO) has approved a method to determine the fulvic acid fraction of plant and soil amendments for the purposes of labeling.
Humic Substance Label Claims for Agricultural Crop Production Consistent with AAPFCO Guidelines
If your fulvic acid product does not have the fulvic acid fraction quantified by this method, contact the manufacturer and urge them to do so.
AAPFCO definitions:
Fulvic Acid Fraction - the portion of humic substances that are soluble in both alkali and acid aqueous solutions.
Hydrophobic Fulvic Acids - are the portions of humic substances that are soluble in both alkali and acidic aqueous solutions that are separated from non-humic aqueous substances in the fulvic acid fraction by selective adsorption onto a nonionic macroporous acrylic ester resin of moderate polarity i.e. DAX-8 resin, at low pH.
Humic Substances - the major organic constituents of soil organic matter and the aquatic environment, consisting of complex heterogeneous mixtures of carbon-based substances formed by biochemical reactions during the decay and transformation of plant and microbial remains. They are primarily composed of three main fractions, called humic acids, fulvic acids, and humin, which are operationally defined by their solubility in dilute alkali and acid solutions. High concentrations of humic substances are commercially harvested from terrestrial deposits of Leonardite, oxidized lignite, oxidized sub-bituminous coals, humalite, carbonaceous shales, peat, and sapropel.
A New Standardized Method for Quantification of Humic and Fulvic Acids in Humic Ores and Commercial ProductsLawrence Mayhew said:
Humic Substance Label Claims for Agricultural Crop Production Consistent with AAPFCO Guidelines
If your fulvic acid product does not have the fulvic acid fraction quantified by this method, contact the manufacturer and urge them to do so.
AAPFCO definitions:
Fulvic Acid Fraction - the portion of humic substances that are soluble in both alkali and acid aqueous solutions.
Hydrophobic Fulvic Acids - are the portions of humic substances that are soluble in both alkali and acidic aqueous solutions that are separated from non-humic aqueous substances in the fulvic acid fraction by selective adsorption onto a nonionic macroporous acrylic ester resin of moderate polarity i.e. DAX-8 resin, at low pH.
Humic Substances - the major organic constituents of soil organic matter and the aquatic environment, consisting of complex heterogeneous mixtures of carbon-based substances formed by biochemical reactions during the decay and transformation of plant and microbial remains. They are primarily composed of three main fractions, called humic acids, fulvic acids, and humin, which are operationally defined by their solubility in dilute alkali and acid solutions. High concentrations of humic substances are commercially harvested from terrestrial deposits of Leonardite, oxidized lignite, oxidized sub-bituminous coals, humalite, carbonaceous shales, peat, and sapropel.
Fulvic Acids are the part of the family of Humic Acids which have a low molecular weight.
The lower the molecular weight, the better the fulvic acid is at being absorbed, and chelating & transporting nutrients around the plant.
The lower the molecular weight of the fulvic acid, the lighter the solution is (given like-for-like dilution rates). Therefore, the lighter the colour, the higher quality the Fulvic Acid is likely to be.
I've tried lots of brands over the years but I've never tried Bio Ag.
The best one I have tried is by Plantlife products.
I Use a high quality Fulvic all the way through my grow.
I use it at double or triple strength in the last 2 weeks. Used in this way it actually helps to transport excess nutrient back out of the plant.
It's the best finishing tactic for final quality ever!
The lower the molecular weight, the better the fulvic acid is at being absorbed, and chelating & transporting nutrients around the plant.
The lower the molecular weight of the fulvic acid, the lighter the solution is (given like-for-like dilution rates). Therefore, the lighter the colour, the higher quality the Fulvic Acid is likely to be.
I've tried lots of brands over the years but I've never tried Bio Ag.
The best one I have tried is by Plantlife products.
I Use a high quality Fulvic all the way through my grow.
I use it at double or triple strength in the last 2 weeks. Used in this way it actually helps to transport excess nutrient back out of the plant.
It's the best finishing tactic for final quality ever!
Go to Leonardite.com
The Fulvic and Humic acids are derived from Leonardite. The best Leonardite comes from North Dakota and South America. Humic plus is the liquid emulsion and is $10.50 a gallon. The source fines are $25.00 for a 35 lbd bag.
These are the highest in quality and wholesale prices. I'm doing a study using various concentrations in my greenhouse with grow bags. They are 35 and 45 gallon grow bags. You are also able to re-use your soil year after year.
This is organic growing at it's finest.
Please stop using chemicals to grow your cannabis. Your hurting yourself and others by using them. If you need more production, plant one more seed. Peace
The Fulvic and Humic acids are derived from Leonardite. The best Leonardite comes from North Dakota and South America. Humic plus is the liquid emulsion and is $10.50 a gallon. The source fines are $25.00 for a 35 lbd bag.
These are the highest in quality and wholesale prices. I'm doing a study using various concentrations in my greenhouse with grow bags. They are 35 and 45 gallon grow bags. You are also able to re-use your soil year after year.
This is organic growing at it's finest.
Please stop using chemicals to grow your cannabis. Your hurting yourself and others by using them. If you need more production, plant one more seed. Peace
different
Member
Leonardite is the cheapest form, great for drilling mud, not as effective for bioactive products. True Leonardite has a good amount of humic, but is lower in fulvic. It maxes out at 8% fulvic, where higher quality sources are 12%. Although most Leonardite sold to gardeners is waste material from coal mining/oil drilling and contains very little fulvic acid.
Are you aware that water is a chemical substance?
different
Member
State labeling laws, not the manufacturers, are currently preventing this.
different
Member
The Plantlife product isn't pure like the BioAg. It uses potassium phosphate and phosphoric acid in extraction.
Ful-Power is pretty egregious with how much water is in the bottle. 30 ml per gallon ridiculously diluted.
I found a product called Mr. Fulvic that is OMRI listed from a company in Florida. It is 1 ml/gallon. They also have a ton of other good organic acids in there because it is sourced from shale, not leonardite like most humates on the market. It's like Frank's Red Hot- I put it on everything!
I found a product called Mr. Fulvic that is OMRI listed from a company in Florida. It is 1 ml/gallon. They also have a ton of other good organic acids in there because it is sourced from shale, not leonardite like most humates on the market. It's like Frank's Red Hot- I put it on everything!
