Extracting THCA, avoiding decarboxylation

Bennyweed1 · Apr 24, 2014

As the title suggests, I'm seeking a method to do so.

I am familiar with oil extractions using solvents but I want to avoid the introduction of heat to circumvent the chemical change of thca into thc.

Someone I know is suffering from Alzheimer's and over the course of one year I have witnessed this great man loose his quality of life and I am prepared to do anything it takes to help him, even if it means persecution.

I have done enough self studies to confirm cannabis in fact helps facilitate the creation of neuron Ach which is low and prevented from transmitting in patients suffering from Alzheimer's.

I want to make a pure form of THCa to ensure this man feels no psychoactive effects of THC and go from there.

If no positive results are obtained after a sustained period of time, then different methods of decarboxylation will be considered.

For all intents and purposes I would like input as to how to cold extract THCa.

Thank you.

JointOperation · Apr 24, 2014

i really think you should look into higher cbd strains.. with lower thc levels.. it will allow him to medicate.. but not get stoned or anything.. im not really positive as to what you need thc or cbd wise to help with Alzheimers but when i look it up.. it seems like the high cbd strains with some thc in there are helping people..

Bennyweed1 · Apr 24, 2014

JointOperation said:
i really think you should look into higher cbd strains.. with lower thc levels.. it will allow him to medicate.. but not get stoned or anything.. im not really positive as to what you need thc or cbd wise to help with Alzheimers but when i look it up.. it seems like the high cbd strains with some thc in there are helping people..

Thank you for your input. I sit here at 4am because I woke up from a dream where he was better. It brakes my heart to watch him and his family. It's like loosing someone to death while they are still alive.

Again thanks for your input.

Bennyweed1 · Apr 24, 2014

The cholinergic system - the nerve cell system in the brain that uses acetylcholine (Ach) as a neurotransmitter - is the most dramatic of the neurotransmitter systems affected by Alzheimer's disease. Levels of acetylcholine, which was first identified in 1914, are abnormally low in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. Currently, there are four FDA-approved drugs that treat the symptoms of Alzheimer's disease by inhibiting the active site of acetylcholinesterase, the enzyme responsible for the degradation of acetylcholine.

"When we investigated the power of Cannabis to inhibit the aggregation of beta-amyloid," Janda said, "we found that THCa was a very effective inhibitor of acetylcholinesterase. In addition to propidium, we also found that THCa was considerably more effective than two of the approved drugs for Alzheimer's disease treatment, donepezil (Aricept ®) and tacrine (Cognex ®), which reduced amyloid aggregation by only 22 percent and 7 percent, respectively, at twice the concentration used in our studies. Our results are conclusive enough to warrant further investigation."

The study was supported by the Skaggs Institute for Chemical Biology at Scripps Research and the National Institutes of Health.

RulaTone · Apr 24, 2014

G.O. Joe has a complete guide with pics on his profile page of how he extracted pure THCA from flowers.

you dont really need pure THCA anyway
As the plant cannabinoids are produced in their acid form, you can simple grow a high THC drug strain and extract its resin in the way you prefer.
If the plant is not over-mature, the buds were stored in a cold and dark place for not too long as they dry and you never reach high temps during purge or better you extract with cold water or even better drysift, your extract will be THCA mostly.
Decarboxylation doesnt take significantly place under 100°c/212F.

G.O. Joe · Apr 25, 2014

IDK how pure it was exactly. It was just classical carboxylic acid extraction from organic solvent, without chromatography.

Although chromatography with alumina
www.google.com/patents/US6730519
has appeal, and uses solvents and alumina instead of acids and bases, I've been planning to try the method in the Hazekamp thesis next time. It's a slick, outside-the-box way to do the classical extraction, and would be good for non-chemists. Although Hazekamp goes further with the purification than I'm posting here, the HPLC of what follows was pretty clean as is.

A glass-filter (mesh size 2) of about 5 cm in diameter and 7 cm in height was filled for 2/3 with acid-washed see-sand (Sigma) and topped with glass pearls (±1 mm diameter). Before use the sand was sequentially washed with 200 ml of hexane, ethanol and water. Cannabis hexane extract was concentrated to about 5 ml of hexane, placed drop-wise on top of the sandfilter and evaporated by using a warm air blower. The sandfilter was then placed onto a suction Erlenmeyer and acidic cannabinoids were eluted by washing the sandfilter under vacuum with a 0.1 M NaOH solution. The elution was continued until the eluate turned from deep-orange to colorless. Neutral cannabinoids and other compounds were then eluted with ethanol (200 ml), followed by hexane (200 ml). Acidic cannabinoids were precipitated in the aqueous eluate by adding HCl until the pH reached 2 and then filtered through the (dried) sandfilter. The precipitate that remained on top of the sandfilter was finally eluted with ethanol (200 ml).

The acidic cannabinoids fraction, resulting from the sandfilter separation, was the preferred starting material for the isolation of cannabinoids, because it is free of interfering compounds such as lipids or terpenoids, and it contains the highest yield of extracted cannabinoids. About 2/3 of the weight of the total hexane extract was recovered in the acidic cannabinoids fraction.

Infinitesimal · May 3, 2014

hey bennyweed,

have you looked into juicing... if you get the right juicer it makes quite a bit of juice that is surprisingly easy to drink and full of acidic cannabinoids... but I think most conditions benefit from full spectrum cannabis raw and decarbed THC and CBD.

Gert Lush · May 3, 2014

Bennyweed1 said:
I have done enough self studies to confirm cannabis in fact helps facilitate the creation of neuron Ach which is low and prevented from transmitting in patients suffering from Alzheimer's.

I admire your motivation, but are you not merely guessing re the acetylcholine?

I want to make a pure form of THCa to ensure this man feels no psychoactive effects of THC and go from there.

Why not? I'd have imagined that it's the psychoactive effects that will be the main beneficial factor. But then again, that's just me guessing

CBD Guru · May 3, 2014

Volume 1 of the Epsilon Essentials Guide Series covers a novice approach to the creation of three special supplements: tincture extract of cannabis (ToC), essential extract of cannabis (EoC), and supplemental extract of cannabis (SoC). Readers can learn how to create therapeutic grade supplements at home, following in the footsteps of Epsilon's decade long track record of success in a wide array of cases.

CBD Guru · May 3, 2014

CBD is indicated for treating Dementia/Alzheimers.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/cannabis-may-help-reverse-dementia-study-20130206-2dxsk.html

Bennyweed1 said:
The cholinergic system - the nerve cell system in the brain that uses acetylcholine (Ach) as a neurotransmitter - is the most dramatic of the neurotransmitter systems affected by Alzheimer's disease. Levels of acetylcholine, which was first identified in 1914, are abnormally low in the brains of Alzheimer's patients. Currently, there are four FDA-approved drugs that treat the symptoms of Alzheimer's disease by inhibiting the active site of acetylcholinesterase, the enzyme responsible for the degradation of acetylcholine.

"When we investigated the power of Cannabis to inhibit the aggregation of beta-amyloid," Janda said, "we found that THCa was a very effective inhibitor of acetylcholinesterase. In addition to propidium, we also found that THCa was considerably more effective than two of the approved drugs for Alzheimer's disease treatment, donepezil (Aricept ®) and tacrine (Cognex ®), which reduced amyloid aggregation by only 22 percent and 7 percent, respectively, at twice the concentration used in our studies. Our results are conclusive enough to warrant further investigation."

The study was supported by the Skaggs Institute for Chemical Biology at Scripps Research and the National Institutes of Health.

Sadhu Sciences · May 11, 2014

A method of extracting live oils from resinous plants/flowers is definitely possible. I have been vapeing it here in CO recently. Live oil means the THC is extracted from live plant material, and under certain environmental conditions ( temp), can be obtained using high end solvent-extraction systems. Obviously it will start to decarboxylate from the air over time . If stored properly and sealed, it is the closest thing to live concentrated resin. This can be used for various applications depending on ratios of cannabinoids , or strain specific situations.

Namaste---

meadowman · May 11, 2014

i'm with infinitesimal, juice the fresh buds.

InjectTruth · May 11, 2014

Im not going to get into the CBD/THC thing but dont discount either. It's not about either or, its about both and.

If you look at lab reports of different extracts and flower samples, you will see they are largely THCA even with no special care.

Id say bubble hash as a volume reduction method from your trim/bud, then extract that further with 'frozen' ethanol if desired would help you keep things as 'carbed' as possible.

justpassnthru · May 12, 2014

Google this:
"Uncle Bill's No Nonsense Pain Reliever And Mystical Cure All"

"Me My Dad and Alzheimers"

Both those threads should give you plenty of information.

Bennyweed1: Me My Dad is rather encouraging and Best of luck in treating your friend. I know how you feel and hope you've been able to help your friend????

Update? jpt

Sam_Skunkman · May 12, 2014

Sadhu Sciences said:
A method of extracting live oils from resinous plants/flowers is definitely possible. I have been vapeing it here in CO recently. Live oil means the THC is extracted from live plant material, and under certain environmental conditions ( temp), can be obtained using high end solvent-extraction systems. Obviously it will start to decarboxylate from the air over time . If stored properly and sealed, it is the closest thing to live concentrated resin. This can be used for various applications depending on ratios of cannabinoids , or strain specific situations.

Namaste---

I understand you want the THC to all be in the THCA form.
To get THCA you can used plants dried for a few weeks, all the THC is still THCA, and after you have dried most of the water from the resin before you do a water sift for bubble hash, dry again at low temps and make the final THCA extract from this.
But the terpene levels will not be the same as dry sift resin, so it is not really the same.
What is "live concentrated resin" to you? live resin will have a high moisture content and should not be stored and sealed unless frozen. And still maybe not a good idea, unless you want or need it that way for a reason.
-SamS

GoonSaibot · May 24, 2014

Infinitesimal said:
hey bennyweed,

have you looked into juicing... if you get the right juicer it makes quite a bit of juice that is surprisingly easy to drink and full of acidic cannabinoids... but I think most conditions benefit from full spectrum cannabis raw and decarbed THC and CBD.

View Image

This is the correct answer... juice it...

also a crap load of omega 369 will help (they are cannabinoids btw)

johnhughmcfadde · Aug 8, 2015

I wrote, How to Make Medical Cannabis That Won't Make You High. I'm a former technical writer who worked with a producer to create this detailed, apparently fool-proof recipe. Heat, light, age, and acid work to convert THCA

Sam_Skunkman · Aug 9, 2015

So where is it? I looked and could not find it.
You forgot that Oxygen also will decarboxylate THCA to THC, I suspect more then light, or heat. Age alone is not the culprit, put the THC in a dark glass bottle, keep frozen at -30C and in a nitrogen flushed atmosphere to remove all Oxygen and keep it for years frozen with little change if any.
I want to read what you wrote.
I have decades of experience working with these compounds in my lab.
-SamS

johnhughmcfadde said:
I wrote, How to Make Medical Cannabis That Won't Make You High. I'm a former technical writer who worked with a producer to create this detailed, apparently fool-proof recipe. Heat, light, age, and acid work to convert THCA

Sam_Skunkman · Aug 9, 2015

GoonSaibot said:
This is the correct answer... juice it...

also a crap load of omega 369 will help (they are cannabinoids btw)

Omega 3-6-9 are Cannabinoids? Do you happen to have a reference that shows this? I think you are mistaken. There are some 80+ Cannabinoids found in Cannabis, the omega-3 fatty acids, α-linolenic acid (ALA), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) are not one of the Cannabinoids.

With Omega 6 EFA's you get:
Linoleic acid (LA) all-cis-9,12-octadecadienoic acid
Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA)all-cis-6,9,12-octadecatrienoic acid
Calendic acid 8E,10E,12Z-octadecatrienoic acid
Eicosadienoic acid all-cis-11,14-eicosadienoic acid
Dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid (DGLA) all-cis-8,11,14-eicosatrienoic acid
Arachidonic acid (AA) all-cis-5,8,11,14-eicosatetraenoic acid
Docosadienoic acid) all-cis-13,16-docosadienoic acid
Adrenic acid all-cis-7,10,13,16-docosatetraenoic acid
Docosapentaenoic acid all-cis-4,7,10,13,16-docosapentaenoic acid
Tetracosatetraenoic acid all-cis-9,12,15,18-tetracosatetraenoic acid
Tetracosapentaenoic acid all-cis-6,9,12,15,18-tetracosapentaenoic acid.
They are not Cannabinoids.

The same is true for the Omega 9 EFA's none are Cannabinoids.
oleic acid 9-octadecenoic acid
elaidic acid (E)-octadec-9-enoic acid
gondoic acid 11-eicosenoic acid
mead acid 5,8,11-eicosatrienoic acid
erucic acid 13-docosenoic acid
nervonic acid 15-tetracosenoic acid

-SamS

Radic · Aug 9, 2015

greetnz
Put simply, omega 6 is used by the body to make chemical signals which have a pro-inflammatory action, this is necessary to ward off pathogens and assist wound healing.
Omega 3 produces chemical messengers which damp down inflammation.
When the intake of omega 3 and 6 is about 1:3 the system is in balance, with just enough inflammation, but appropriately damped.

With omega 3 deficiency the body is in a state of chronic inflammation.

Omega 3 and omega 6 are essential for the construction of functional cannabinoid receptor sites.
Every time a cell divides, whether it is a brain cell, or a body cell, it needs to make new skin to grow back to its full size, and that involves making a whole bunch of new receptors.

And this is where the cutting edge of science starts - to make functional CB1 receptors, you absolutely need Omega-3 in "Nutritional Omega-3 deficiency abolishes endocannabinoid-mediated neuronal functions.” Omega 6 is related to functional CB2 receptor sites.

Hempseed oil is produced inside the hemp seed.
Hempseed Oil is 80% essential fatty acids, mostly omegas 6 and 3

Hash oil is produces on the surface of the flowers, leaf and stems of the cannabis plant.
Hash Oil is rich in THC, CBD and other cannabinoids

Extracting THCA, avoiding decarboxylation

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