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Old 11-03-2016, 09:24 PM #11
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Originally Posted by kanzzzz View Post
Im wonddering has anyone seen any good tests or tried this before to see if theres a magic middle ground of removing some fan leaves for better light , but not butchering the plant?

The plant does a lot of work to make the leaves, and the energy in the leaves is in a form that the plant can most readily use.

The energy for the plants is to feed today's photosynthesis. I wonder if timing wise, it is best to remove fan leaves right before lights off.


I think part of the trick is finding good tools that allow you to deal with the problem of fan leaves shading internodes, quickly.

Cutting the leaves is only one way. I find those things with the wire in them, that the supermarket uses to tie up produce with ... that's one example of a tool that can move bud sites into the light.

I've moved leaves behind bud sites ... so the plant can "drink from the milk shake" (use the energy from the leaf to grow bud) AND still get light.


Another option is using LED spotlights on lower bud sites that might be suffering from too much fan leaf shade.
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Old 11-03-2016, 09:54 PM #12
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When growing indoors there is little need to keep fans along the mainstem very long. Aside from blocking light to buds they also store nitrogen that is not needed later in flowering and only adds to your cure time.
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:27 AM #13
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So trimming during flower stage doesn't stress the plant? I'm curious what energy is used when healing from injury vs bud development.
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:17 AM #14
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In both veg and flower I will pluck the misc fan leaves and the fan leaves of internodes that are larger than 1/2" +/-.
I take a break when I initiate flower and pick back up after the stretch has stopped. I don't do many leaves on a plant each day.
This works for me and I am very happy with the speed, quality and yield of my garden.

Re-reading post 2 in this thread regarding the plant priortizing reproduction. I think that the amount of energy it takes to seal off the broken stem of a fan leaf is relatively small when weighed against the importance of self preservation.
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:28 AM #15
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It's better to do as much training, pruning, etc. in the vegetative period as plants are less likely to suffer stress then.
Try to minimize what you do to a plant in the flowering period.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:47 AM #16
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So big question here is do buds need direct light? I agree big fan leaves can stole nutrients from buds but fan leaves is good indicator what happening with your plant and feeding regime especially when you are noob and strain isn't dealed. Even when leaves is removed i can't see how light will hit bottom branches on main stems if your light stay above plants, top buds will shade bottom buds on same branch with this small sugar leaves. Do you need to remove this small leaves? Even if you remove them branch grow straight up to the lights will shade everything to the bottom unless you supercrop or lst this branch its only way to provide lights to the bottom.
So do buds need direct light?
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:35 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maimunji View Post
So big question here is do buds need direct light? I agree big fan leaves can stole nutrients from buds but fan leaves is good indicator what happening with your plant and feeding regime especially when you are noob and strain isn't dealed. Even when leaves is removed i can't see how light will hit bottom branches on main stems if your light stay above plants, top buds will shade bottom buds on same branch with this small sugar leaves. Do you need to remove this small leaves? Even if you remove them branch grow straight up to the lights will shade everything to the bottom unless you supercrop or lst this branch its only way to provide lights to the bottom.
So do buds need direct light?
Depends, yes and no. It is strain dependant. Kush's will grow solid nice buds with no direct light, at least the ones I've grown. Almost all other strains if the bud sight wasn't getting direct light, the buds were no where near as big or dense or resinous as those beside it getting direct light.
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:24 AM #18
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From what I've seen shade leaves exist to bring height, side branch leaves grow the branches they're on and the bud leaves grow the buds next to them. The plant doesn't share it's energy so that the branches all grow at the same rate, buds get to the same size, etc. so I tuck and fold all the shade leaves until they start blocking light from hitting the side branch ones and I do the same with them to the bud ones as well. I try to leave them on for as long as possible because every leaf that gets light provides the plant with energy but I prioritize the buds over trim, trim over shade leaf, etc. so I make sure that the plant gets light in that order too.
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:32 PM #19
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A couple of experiences that I have had--

1. Removing leaves will cause the plant to produce replacement leaves (but smaller sized).
2. Do not remove more than 25% of any plant's foliage (unless you like playing Nurse Florence Nightingale).
3. Do not remove fan leaves in or just before flowering...a plant's leaf is a storehouses of nutrients, including potassium--which is needed for bud and bloom development.
4. Removing leaves will increase the Plant Available Si--but only temporary, as the plant tissues of defoliated plants will usually have less Si concentrations than "non-defoliated" plants.
5. Strain specific--I have an Afghan that behaves better when the large fan leaves are removed at each node a few weeks before flipping to 12/12. If the leaves are not removed, then about 4-5 weeks in flower I will need to fish out the "retired" yellow leaves (this plant requires almost twice the veg time too). BTW, the remaining leaves are just fine--all green....and the leaf removal has nothing to do with "blocking light" or "providing energy", pure housekeeping.
6. Improved lighting arrangements will overcome concerns of large fan leaves shadowing bud sites. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west--but our indoor lights are usually stuck at "high noon" (no angular light in the morning or afternoon). So, two lamps instead of one will help--instead of a single 1k lamp, think about using two 600k lamps (1.2k total). Two lamps that overlap have a greater light penetration capability than a single lamp with twice the wattage.
7. The harshest smoke I ever had, was from grower that stripped his plants clean while in flower--and he was an "organic fanatic" hippy.
8. Do a side-by-side test...same strain, same pot size, cloned the same day, transplanted the same day, harvested the same day--then compare. What works for me might not work for you...and vice versa.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:44 PM #20
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Fan leaves are there for a reason. They provide nutrition to the plant and all it's buds. Sun light goes right through fan leaves! When they yellow, get rid of them. Small plants have buds all the way to the bottom because they are so small. The whole small plant is a top, which have the biggest buds: budsickles. Vertical lighting pretty much eliminates the problem of not as much light getting to the bottoms. Distance from the light source is the issue, not leaves "blocking" the sun.
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