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Old 10-21-2017, 02:08 PM #3201
EasyGoing
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So.................

Wouldn't that mean that feeding your plants will provide the soil the energy (EC) that water only will never accomplish? My soil is loaded, and most people would say overloaded. If I just watered, believe me, bugs would happen. Giving a balanced feed almost over rides my slightly out of balance soil. So that must mean something. It can work the other way too. Good soil doesn't mean healthy plant, as you can feed the wrong elements at the wrong time of year. Balance, balance, balance.

However, wouldn't one assume that balanced soil, with a balanced feed is the answer?


Also, Jidoka. When I say zero, I mean zero. I have a soil probe from Germany that does a great job. However, not sure why but soil tests always display the EC about double what my meter says. Must be some conversion rate that the labs use. It was amazing sticking my probe in hundreds of........... soil pots............... and finding how many people are growing with zero conductivity. All of them were in light weight soil.

The EC I shot for all year was to stay above .5 and below 1.3. It was a roller coaster ride though. Feed and top dress, probe the next day and the ec was up to 1.3. I would test exactly the same amount of time after the same amounts of water volumes applied ensuring mostly even saturation levels for accurate EC testing. The next day the EC would dip. A week later the EC would need to be raised again. I would be able to bring her back up with some liquids, but after about 2 - 3 weeks, it would need another top dress. Which also lead me to believe a conversation with GreenHands was accurate, about the N cycle being burned up in about 3 weeks. This conversation was about "flushing" before harvest, but correlates to this conversation as well. N drives EC.


As for top dresses, the main ratio's are easy. 1-2-1. It's the micros that need attention. I really want to find a company that will make a custom blend, that I can adjust the micros with sulfates. Then add a shit ton of gypsum, lol. The main problem with top dresses are too high Fe in our organic world. Need to find a way to leach Fe.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:28 PM #3202
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Wouldn't the ultimate goal for the season be to see no change in your soil test numbers?

If you fertigate multiple times a week (ala mr. nickel) with a dialed amount, your soil numbers would never change.

That is dialed farming.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:59 PM #3203
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I disagree. For example, take K. You want low K in veg, but that has to raise in flower. So your base saturation % must change right? However, there should be something said about getting nutes to the root tips. You can get nutes to the tips without changing the saturation %. I can attest to that. Last year I was void of Ca, but the constant top dressing of gypsum kept my root tips taking up the needed amount of Ca.
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:30 PM #3204
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I disagree. For example, take K. You want low K in veg, but that has to raise in flower. So your base saturation % must change right? However, there should be something said about getting nutes to the root tips. You can get nutes to the tips without changing the saturation %. I can attest to that. Last year I was void of Ca, but the constant top dressing of gypsum kept my root tips taking up the needed amount of Ca.
Yes you would have some swing in base %. I guess I should have said very little change instead of none.

If we know the daily plant use of nutrients we can make micro doses daily that don't sway the base or profile of the mix,much. All the while making adjustments based on growth stage.

When we talk about the swing of Ca and K we are talking about fairly small amounts here, are we not?

I am sick as a dog, sorry if I am not making sense!
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:47 PM #3205
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This is why we need SAP or tissue testing. My little secret, but soon, here in my county, after permits, builds, ext ext. There might be a lab willing to do those tests. Can't wait.


Here is a mind fuck, and maybe just an anomaly in my grows..... However....... When I get a soil test back and I am in excess in one element, in the past I would tend to not feed that element anymore till the excess would minimize. However, I would actually get better results keeping up with the feed that included the element in excess. This all comes down to what's available to the plant. P being the biggest. If you have 5x the amount of P in the soil, but only 15% of that is available, your still deficient.

We need tissue and sap testing.

For me, soil tests three times a year. Spring, month before flower and two weeks into flower. Then sap or tissue testing in between to see what the actual plant needs. Now if there was a meter that would do all this in the field, I would pay ANYTHING for it! Get on it tech nerds!
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:56 PM #3206
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I would love to hear others opinions on some grow "facts" that don't seem to apply to this paradigm of growing. I will take these one by one, and others can feel free to add their own tidbits.

Excess P causes low microbial activity (fact)

Well, I find that hard to believe and here is my theroy as to why. With calcium levels in the mid 70's and above, the soil is able to breath. Ca molecules are large, which creates more air space between molecules. With Ca that high, Mg is low. Mg has small particles, and will clog up your soil in excess.

What do microbes need to survive? Air.(among other things) So the question I pose......... With higher levels of Ca, causing more airspace in the soil, does higher levels of P still cause microbe death? I say no.

What evidence do I have to this? My top dressing all season long would disappear quickly. That and healthy plants. I will post up my test results when I get around to them, but I am willing to bet my P levels are off the charts, and my microbes should be dead.

Can anybody tell me a better way to measure the microbe activity in the soil? Under a scope it looks poppin, but I don't know soil microbes all that well. Did a fair amount of study on microbes in teas, which I am sure has a huge amount of carry over.
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Old 10-21-2017, 04:58 PM #3207
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I think what happens when you feed heavy you shut down the microbes so you get no contribution from any of your non soluble soil amendments. You are essentially feeding hydroponically at that point. The thing to watch for is which way does your organic % move yr over yr
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:06 PM #3209
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I think what happens when you feed heavy you shut down the microbes so you get no contribution from any of your non soluble soil amendments. You are essentially feeding hydroponically at that point. The thing to watch for is which way does your organic % move yr over yr
So, you guys have been asking how to get high levels of Ca into a hydroponic type set up......... Do we have an answer?
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:14 PM #3210
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Topdressing is the easiest way for soil. It would be hard to get as much as you want fertigating cause injectors won't work.

Beyond that we would need to move the conversation cause I promised
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