HELP.. IC.. The Claw

Garbage info? Id love to see how amazing your setup is if you think adding calmag to a root zone constitues an improper balance. Macros and micros both get absorbed in the root zone. Ive never fed micros in my life. Im used to around a g per watt. Before you talk about ec, look up what calcium and magnesium mean to a plant. What is it used for? Ca strengthens plant cell walls, such as stems and branches. It also directly helps root growth. If i remember correctly newer root growth. It concentrates in root zones and enhances the consistent uptake of K. A freakin macro. Mag directly aids in new leaf growth directly needed to produce chlorophyll and break down enzymes. Look that up and challenge my knowledge. Adding 5ml per gallon(very safe) you can add up to 10mls per gallon with calmag+ from botanicare, is a great idea virtually at all times other than flushing when running ro. Thanks for your attitude and stupid opinion though.

He already flushed, the root zone has been cleansed, the plants need to eat now. Or more deficiency could arise. Im not saying im an expert but ive been working with plants my whole life. So im not full of "garbage info".

If I thought for a second you would listen or learn what I could teach you, you'd be getting schooled in this post.

But, cling to your inferior knowledge of hydroponic science, as I don't find your post with discrediting, anyone who doesnt see your advice is bad deserves whatever they get.

Cal mag causes more problems than good? Thats pretty general and extremely untrue. I don't know anyone who doesn't supplement calmag if they run RO.

Dude, im not attacking you, id love to learn or be "schooled" or whatever phrase makes you feel good. Educate me, please!

I don't, I run reverse osmosis.

But then I'm not much into getting but raped by hydro store for a product that can be made at home for pennies.

Crooked8 said:

Dude, im not attacking you, id love to learn or be "schooled" or whatever phrase makes you feel good. Educate me, please!

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Ideal ca:mg ratio is about 1.5-1.75, meaning at 100 ppms ca you want 50-75ppm.

Calmag is not in that ratio I dont think.

Now, having cleared that up, if the op has flushed them, why would he add back camg in a ratio or concentration that is improper.

The proper avenue, would be to, after the flush, water with half or quarter strength nutrients until you see a response, then go from there.


And I apologize if I'm a bit rough around the edges, but to many people this is a livelihood and bad advice could cost a guy a harvest and income. I'd be pissed if somebody online gave me the advice that cost me a grow.


Here's my garden, since you wanted to see.

That my friend, is a pretty nice freaking setup...

That setup looks very inefficient to me. Clean, but what kind of footprint do you get out of that? And adding cal mag to any nute regimen or ro would NEVER cost someone a harvest. Thats just plain false.

Adding 5mls a gallon? Costing a harvest? Or even effecting it that dramatically if it wasnt added? Sounds very inaccurate to me but again im not an expert. I dunno ill just keep up with my setup and enjoy my 2 per 1k.

Architect, you grow nice herb, no challenge there.

id like to try coco one day so I am trying to learn some here.
my understanding is when you get fresh coco you have to charge it with cal/mag.
if the coco was thoroughly flushed would it need to be recharged again?
or will feeding it the micro's do it til the plants get back on their feet do the trick?

not taking sides here, just a curious spectator.

Crooked8 said:

That setup looks very inefficient to me. Clean, but what kind of footprint do you get out of that? And adding cal mag to any nute regimen or ro would NEVER cost someone a harvest. Thats just plain false.

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Inefficient?

there is 130-40 square feet of canopy in a room that is only 100 square feet.

If I put 6k horizontal I wouldn't be able to move in the room, and I'd have 30% less canopy.

Crooked8 said:

Adding 5mls a gallon? Costing a harvest? Or even effecting it that dramatically if it wasnt added? Sounds very inaccurate to me but again im not an expert. I dunno ill just keep up with my setup and enjoy my 2 per 1k.

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Your right, maybe it won't kill plants, in fact it's highly unlikely, but that doesn't detract from the fact that bad advice could diminish or delay a harvest, which was my point.

Diminish or delay i could see. I still don't agree but thats far from being "cost a harvest". With that vert setup what do you pull per 1k? I run flood and drain rockwool. When i only add 5ml per gallon through their entire cycle i have seen slight cal and mag deficiency by mid to late harvest. Ever since upping the dose of cal mag with the nutes each week, then steadily bringing it back down after week 5, i rarely see any deficiency. Like i said, not an expert, so id love to know why countless strains respond this way? If you were to run a 9 week cycle, how many mls per gal would you add each week with a standard nute regimen? I run house and garden which is supposed to have enough cal mag in it already. When running ro, thats not accurate and the plants have shown me countless times. Og, cheese, gdp, strawberry cough, wifi, cookies , you name it, they all respond the same way. Not enough cal mag has cost me! So i feel personally that telling someone who runs Ro to supplement cal mag could not only increase yield but reduce plant deficiency. In which case you would be the one costing someone yield. This is all relative and theres info on the internet to discredit almost anything. Im always here to learn but i like to share my experience and what has worked for me. I would tell someone their advice i doesnt seem accurate to me but calling mine "garbage"? Damn bro. Im pretty sure im not even wrong about this advice but ill back off and let you take over.

the gnome said:

id like to try coco one day so I am trying to learn some here.
my understanding is when you get fresh coco you have to charge it with cal/mag.
if the coco was thoroughly flushed would it need to be recharged again?
or will feeding it the micro's do it til the plants get back on their feet do the trick?

not taking sides here, just a curious spectator.

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I don't run coco but if did i would still run some form of additional cal mag. As far as "charging" it with cal mag, the coco growers i know haven't mentioned it. They run botanicare cal mag+ at 5 ml per gallon or more depending on what week. I run it too. I never see deficiency and the plants stack hard as hell.

the gnome said:

id like to try coco one day so I am trying to learn some here.
my understanding is when you get fresh coco you have to charge it with cal/mag.
if the coco was thoroughly flushed would it need to be recharged again?
or will feeding it the micro's do it til the plants get back on their feet do the trick?

not taking sides here, just a curious spectator.

Click to expand...

I think there is some lingo confusion going on here. GH's "flora micro" is a bottle in their 3 part fertilizer line which incidentally does contain Micro elements but it also contains Macro elements as well- namely Nitrogen and Ca (Honestly the Calcium in flora micro is abundant- it has the same concentration as nitrogen)

To take an excerpt from another ICmag post about coco:
"Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen."

This entire article is available to read here.

So to pick up the topic on coco, over fertilization, and flushing- Gnome you are completely right about having to "charge" the medium with calcium and magnesium. Calcium is one of the biggest positively charged cations(+) in fertilizer and coco coir(-) with its inherent negative charge will naturally hold those cations in a matrix. Some coco brands say to water with a "low strength" fertilizer before planting- IF you use a PURE coco medium I would take it a step further and add "also add in a comparative concentration of cal/mag supplement". Nowadays, coco blends are more popular which contain things like "Organic compounds" and "perlite" that buffer the medium against calcium deficiencies and add drainage so salts don't build up. Haromaru is using pure coco.

After flushing with plain water, Haromaru is now fertilizing a 1/2 to 1/4 concentrated fertilizer. As I said above GH's "Floramicro" has a lot of calcium in it and he is also foliar spraying with it as well. The plant will absorb calcium soon enough through its roots after the calcium/magnesium anion threshold is met within the coco and then it will start to grow healthily again. Until the threshold is met, it will be readily absorbed through it's leaves

Stay Fresh

Fresh Start said:

I think there is some lingo confusion going on here. GH's "flora micro" is a bottle in their 3 part fertilizer line which incidentally does contain Micro elements but it also contains Macro elements as well- namely Nitrogen and Ca (Honestly the Calcium in flora micro is abundant- it has the same concentration as nitrogen)

To take an excerpt from another ICmag post about coco:
"Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen."

This entire article is available to read here.

So to pick up the topic on coco, over fertilization, and flushing- Gnome you are completely right about having to "charge" the medium with calcium and magnesium. Being one of the biggest positively charged anions(+) in fertilizer coco coir(-) will naturally grab hold of it. Some coco brands say to water with a "low strength" fertilizer before planting- IF you use a PURE coco medium I would take it a step further and add "also add in a comparative concentration of cal/mag supplement". Nowadays, coco blends are more popular which contain things like "Organic compounds" and "perlite" that buffer the medium against calcium deficiencies and add drainage so salts don't build up. Haromaru is using pure coco.

After flushing with plain water, Haromaru is now fertilizing a 1/2 to 1/4 concentrated fertilizer. As I said above GH's "Floramicro" has a lot of calcium in it and he is also foliar spraying with it as well. The plant will absorb calcium soon enough through its roots after the calcium/magnesium anion threshold is met within the coco and then it will start to grow healthily again. Until the threshold is met, it will be readily absorbed through it's leaves

Stay Fresh

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right on!

I thought what Gnome was talking about had something to do with cation ion exchange... but am not well versed enough to explain it to anyone...

Good Job!

issue with cal mag being the source of cal also adds N. otherwise a 3:1 ca/mg ratio is excellent. 100ppm+ ca is beneficial not detrimental. other cal products obtain this ratio fine. not using a ca/mg supplement in RO or soft tap is asking for trouble in coco. i pump my plants up with ca/mg supps and still show -ca

GET YOUR PH IN CHECK.. then give 1/4 strength nutes and they will perk up soon . if u just got them try to give them a little while.

thanks everyone for the insight,
and fresh start, thanks for taking the time to go in depth on my question.