Plants dying overnight

issack · Aug 4, 2017

mushroombrew said:
Yeah It's ODD. I had fusarium in the 1.5" rockwool block the clones started in.

Ok let's do a quick Chemistry lesson.

Bleach is Sodium, Chloride, and an extra oxygen molecule.

It's an oxidiser.

NaCLO in water it splits into Sodium and CLO (hypochlorite)
The hypochlorite kills bacteria with the extra O an turns into Cl (chloride) instantly

Plants can use the Cl it is "food".

The only negative aspect is the sodium forms sodium hydroxide which is toxic to plants in high levels. But this will not be significant in a 10% solution. And we are not drenching any roots. Just the part where it stinks.

I sprayed the top of the media and stem 3 times daily. There were no ill effects. No salt stress(naOH). A 10% solution is a sanitizer not a poison.

Stop thinking of bleach as bleach. Think of it as something that kills bacteria micro organism. While not hurting the macro organism(plant).

This is science. Not bro science. I have a bio chemistry background. And was a pool contractor for 12 years. So I am very familiar with sanitizers. And plants. Nobody wants a wasteland around their pool.

After a couple days with no stress from bleach solution I got quite brave and sprayed every plant in the house. Small clones were fine too. It's a remedy not an everyday thing...

Have you calibrated the temp gauge on the chiller? I find it hard to believe its that cold. Fusarium loves warmth.

There is a product called clear rez. It is Hypochlorous acid. Has the same CLO molecule.

It's $60/gallon but comes with a "put me on plants" Label.

Bleach is $4/gallon. Works the same. But only has my endorsement!!

Thanks for the info man. I'm absorbing this. New stuff here to me.

My chiller is a pond chiller. It's a big boy and it's digital. It's like 2800 bucks. It's reading the right temp definitely. My water is cold and my res tank sweats with condensation. I just went and checked with my blue lab pH pen and the temp is 64.. this Fusarium is probably due to the fact that it gets so hot in my room right now as well as humid when lights are on. And also have to take in consideration I live in Hawaii so everything here is just magnified x 100 with mold and anything. we have mold everywhere. it just got finished raining here for 3 months straight.. also as dunhavinfun mentioned my air movement under the pots which i have fixed. I will have a better grasp on this next run from the beginning.

Honestly I think it's the solution that sits in my pvc lines when lights are out for 12 hours and just accumulates mold inside there. Then inoculating the Spore and fungus into my soil when my lights come on and my timer kicks on my feed. So using preventives like the stuff I'm going to get, and just be diligent and making sure I add them every time will help I believe as well as air movement and the things I'm changing right now for the next run

gaiusmarius · Aug 4, 2017

the bleach thing is an old trick and its known to work, as the french guy said it's all about the amount. imo doing a flush after and with bleach is not needed, but bleach will kill beneficial s as well as the fusarium aka stem rot. thanks for explaining your environmental extremes etc.

anyway with only 10 days to go, i would do nothing and just let them finish normally, specially if you have no further plants showing symptoms. but for the future you should consider watering a bit less, specially the plant under the ac. btw how cold does it get when you say cold?

issack · Aug 4, 2017

gaiusmarius said:
the bleach thing is an old trick and its known to work, as the french guy said it's all about the amount. imo doing a flush after and with bleach is not needed, but bleach will kill beneficial s as well as the fusarium aka stem rot. thanks for explaining your environmental extremes etc.

anyway with only 10 days to go, i would do nothing and just let them finish normally, specially if you have no further plants showing symptoms. but for the future you should consider watering a bit less, specially the plant under the ac. btw how cold does it get when you say cold?

Thank you and I absolutely agree with you.. only thing I'm going to do is add pro tekt and up my rate of sm90 to 5 mills.

Well the plant was under the a/c so when lights are out the blower fans turn off ( oscillating fans stay on though ) and the ac has a direct flow path through the middle. So the ice cold air will hit the tops of the middle row on the left and right beds.

Yes my environment is extreme jungle action. I have had to fight every pest and extreme with my grows in side and outside. This is just adding a notch on my belt as another battle I have to endure.. Lol seriously. I have to really keep up my game here. I'm 2200ft elevation. It can be sunny and beautiful Down Below on ocean level nice beaches and everything, take five minute trip up to my house and it's raining usually it's serious tropical weather here.. but thispast week has been sun for the first time in months.

issack · Aug 4, 2017

Just took these pics.. So far so good.!! I did dig down under the stalks on some of them and noticed the Fusarium growing though. So they are ticking time bombs .. praying I don't loose anymore. Down to like 8 days.. !! Arggg.

Amaalza · Aug 4, 2017

Sorry to hear about the Rot your setup is stunning.

mushroombrew · Aug 4, 2017

issack said:
Thanks for the info man. I'm absorbing this. New stuff here to me.

My chiller is a pond chiller. It's a big boy and it's digital. It's like 2800 bucks. It's reading the right temp definitely. My water is cold and my res tank sweats with condensation. I just went and checked with my blue lab pH pen and the temp is 64.. this Fusarium is probably due to the fact that it gets so hot in my room right now as well as humid when lights are on. And also have to take in consideration I live in Hawaii so everything here is just magnified x 100 with mold and anything. we have mold everywhere. it just got finished raining here for 3 months straight.. also as dunhavinfun mentioned my air movement under the pots which i have fixed. I will have a better grasp on this next run from the beginning.

Honestly I think it's the solution that sits in my pvc lines when lights are out for 12 hours and just accumulates mold inside there. Then inoculating the Spore and fungus into my soil when my lights come on and my timer kicks on my feed. So using preventives like the stuff I'm going to get, and just be diligent and making sure I add them every time will help I believe as well as air movement and the things I'm changing right now for the next run

Ok I get it. I just moved from Kauai. How long between feedings? The nutrient probably warms up in the lines. Maybe run a fat mainline so it dont heat up as much. Also keep drippers away from the stem. So its dry right there.
You would have better nute temps if you recirc. Then all the media stays cold. Big chiller can handle
I ran a sealed room in hawaii. Choke AC huge bills.
Power in Oregon in only 7 cents/kwh!!
I dont miss the humidity one bit!!

mushroombrew · Aug 4, 2017

100ml bleach in 900ml water. 1/10th
Top spray. Will not harm plants. Just dont drench.
I used 125ml Protekt in 50gallons.

gaiusmarius · Aug 4, 2017

100ml of bleach per 900ml of water seems high to me. make sure you look it up before you try it and try it on 1 plant only. i still think not doing anything for these last 8 days is your best bet. just your normal end run schedule.

mushroombrew · Aug 4, 2017

gaiusmarius said:
100ml of bleach per 900ml of water seems high to me. make sure you look it up before you try it and try it on 1 plant only. i still think not doing anything for these last 8 days is your best bet. just your normal end run schedule.

I used double that without issues. Takes an awful lot to damage a stem. The CLO turns into CL in minutes. I have test kits. This is not a guess...

I am talking about applying 5-10cc on the top. Not enough to get into the roots.

And there is nothing to look up. I am the only "book" on this bleach subject.

Anyway they will likely survive to harvest.

issack · Aug 4, 2017

Ah so you know the Hawaii struggles.! I lived in Oregon for 10 years before moving here in 2000. We have the highest electricity in the nation here. It's insane ridiculous. But fortunately I don't pay for the room electrical if ya catch my drift.

I just moved my feedings to every 2 hours instead of hour and a half, and yes I thought about that. making sure the drip line is not right directly under the stock and every one of them are. So the next run I'm going to make a loop on the end of my drippers.. So it's even dispersed in a circle around the stalk. If I move them now with the root ball and all I think I will starve part of my root system . But yes you are totally right and I'm on the same with that.

I can't really think about running a fat main line in my system it would still warm up on the 12 hours the lights are off. But maybe that's a better idea. I'm using half inch right now. Hmmmm... and my system is not recirc it's strictly DTW. I don't know how it would be possible to do a recirculating system with drippers drain to waste.. how would I control it from not dripping in my plants while it recirculates.

I have an ozone generator too. I was wondering maybe I could use that and have it kick on about 15 minutes every hour during my whole grow.. I don't know thoughts on that?

And yes I'm not going to use any bleach solution right now . I'm just going to use the pro tekt and higher dose of sm90 and Silica Blast and hope for the best..

issack · Aug 4, 2017

mushroombrew said:
I used double that without issues. Takes an awful lot to damage a stem. The CLO turns into CL in minutes. I have test kits. This is not a guess...

I am talking about applying 5-10cc on the top. Not enough to get into the roots.

And there is nothing to look up. I am the only "book" on this bleach subject.

Anyway they will likely survive to harvest.

Okay so how long do I hold my sprayer over the top of the pot with this solution?.. and by the time my feed water comes on with lights on will it mix down into my roots? Obviously not since you have done this many times seems like a good idea.

issack · Aug 4, 2017

gaiusmarius said:
100ml of bleach per 900ml of water seems high to me. make sure you look it up before you try it and try it on 1 plant only. i still think not doing anything for these last 8 days is your best bet. just your normal end run schedule.

I'm thinking the bleach solution sprayed on the top of the pots is kind of a good idea right now as this guy has done it many times with no ill effects. I was talking about the bleach in the res water feeding the plants is what I'm freaked out about and would not do at the moment at all. The top spray seems okay though

gaiusmarius · Aug 4, 2017

fair enough, im a great believer in practical info, so if you done it and it never harmed but helped, go for it. i still don't really see the need if there is really only 8 days to go. but i understand wanting to do something and bleach will sterilize, a spray won't drench the coco. i know ive read a few folks who swear by bleach in the rez and by using it for aero cloning water. just can't remember the dosage. thankfully i've never had to use it, it really is contra productive in a normal healthy coco grow as it fucks all the cool beneficial micro organisms you get in coco. yes they come back fast, but still...use it in emergency by all means, but in future you ideally need to find a way to solve this without needing to add bleach to your tank imo.

mushroombrew · Aug 4, 2017

gaiusmarius said:
fair enough, im a great believer in practical info, so if you done it and it never harmed but helped, go for it. i still don't really see the need if there is really only 8 days to go. but i understand wanting to do something and bleach will sterilize, a spray won't drench the coco. i know ive read a few folks who swear by bleach in the rez and by using it for aero cloning water. just can't remember the dosage. thankfully i've never had to use it, it really is contra productive in a normal healthy coco grow as it fucks all the cool beneficial micro organisms you get in coco. yes they come back fast, but still...use it in emergency by all means, but in future you ideally need to find a way to solve this without needing to add bleach to your tank imo.

Yeah bleach in the res is another story. Hypochlorus is much better for that. But expensive.
The problem with Fusarium is it comes on so fast. You may go in there tomorrow and they are wilted. So I would consider a topical on any plants with the rot. It will not contribute to plant fert content so you will still flush fine. And will stop fusarium progression.
And if you didn't know smoking fusarium contaminated flower is not a good Idea. Consider tossing infected plants. Buds and all. Not fun.

microbe · Aug 4, 2017

Pardon has all for my english deplorable but google translation is not very good ... to come back to the bleach, I do not force anyone but it is a means by others to curb a bacterial disease even if I think the evil Is done and that some plants are already condemned .... but will stop its propagation. Retained that the addition of beneficial bacteria will no longer serve any purpose. Well, I said fusarium or pythium, but it can be anything else because the bacterial diseases are so numerous that the fool of the time, we do not know what it is ..... the main thing is to act Quickly and well to control the situation, ie "THE DISEASE"

mushroombrew · Aug 4, 2017

Good point Microbe. Who cares about beneficials when your plants are dying. The balance of beneficials vs pathogens is already wrong. And a sanitizer will kill the bad stuff which is killing your plants.

issack · Aug 5, 2017

So we are looking at about 300 mils of bleach per gallon of water .? And top spray for like 2 seconds.? I just got home from grabbing pro tekt and silicablast. I'm about to mix this up.. making sure the ratio first

issack · Aug 5, 2017

400 mils actually. That's converting from 100 mils to 900 mil of water

mushroombrew · Aug 5, 2017

issack said:
400 mils actually. That's converting from 100 mils to 900 mil of water

380 mils in one gallon. I used close to 20% so dont worry. I used a pump sprayer. High pressure/fine mist. One circle on top. Like one two seconds. Then I put the tip directly on the base for one second.
I cant emphasize what a tiny amout of CLO is involved. It will not harm plants when feeding starts up. I regularly spray the top of rockwool blocks with it now. Tiny clones even. As i found no ill effects when treating fusarium. Kills algae on the blocks. Plants dont even blink.

issack · Aug 5, 2017

mushroombrew said:
380 mils in one gallon. I used close to 20% so dont worry. I used a pump sprayer. High pressure/fine mist. One circle on top. Like one two seconds. Then I put the tip directly on the base for one second.
I cant emphasize what a tiny amout of CLO is involved. It will not harm plants when feeding starts up. I regularly spray the top of rockwool blocks with it now. Tiny clones even. As i found no ill effects when treating fusarium. Kills algae on the blocks. Plants dont even blink.

Right on man.. filling up my pump sprayer now.. thanks for replying fast.

Plants dying overnight

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