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Plants 'can think and remember'

VerdantGreen

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this has a lot of implications for growers - interesting article

we could really do with a 'botany' section but until then this is probably the best place for it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10598926

Plants are able to "remember" and "react" to information contained in light, according to researchers.

Plants, scientists say, transmit information about light intensity and quality from leaf to leaf in a very similar way to our own nervous systems.

These "electro-chemical signals" are carried by cells that act as "nerves" of the plants

In their experiment, the scientists showed that light shone on to one leaf caused the whole plant to respond.

And the response, which took the form of light-induced chemical reactions in the leaves, continued in the dark.

This showed, they said, that the plant "remembered" the information encoded in light.....
Click to expand...

EDIT 25/11 - here is a link to the actual paper that the bbc is reporting - many thanks to spurr
(html) http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/content/full/22/7/2201
(pdf) http://www.plantcell.org/cgi/reprint/22/7/2201.pdf
 
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sallyforthDeleted member 75382

Amazing information....good find and thanks for sharing.
 
G

greentrich

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ibjamming said:
It's a HUGE stretch to call it "thinking and remembering".
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My thoughts exactly. Seems more like conditioning...Sammy Jenkis (if anyone has seen Memento) style.

It is a good read though VG...thanks for posting.
To me though, it seems these scientists are making more out of something than need be. The first part they talk about showing light on one leaf has direct results not only on that leaf, but the whole plant. Ok, isn't this basic biology? Cell communication? Doesn't every living thing on this planet have cells that communicate with each other?

Then in the "Thinking Plants" sections, they talk about
plants' responses changed depending on the colour of the light that was being shone on them.
Click to expand...
. Maybe I'm missing something. Isn't this why I change from a blue MH to a red HPS? To provoke a particular response?

I think the most interesting thing is the immunity after having light, and the lack of before having light. But I do not think this denotes a "Thinking" organism over a conditioned, predetermined response that can be attributed to evolution and DNA.

IMO...thinking means a consciousness, and awareness of self and critical decision making, among other characteristics that I've never seen a plant posses. I don't see any plant doing this.

I could be wrong. This is a very interesting hypothesis and hopefully it will be discussed more here...constructively, as I am curious about it and other thoughts on this.

My .2
 
hoosierdaddy

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Auxins and their triggers are also very intriguing. To me these sorts of hormonal actions are more akin to "thinking". Amazing to me how the plant can sense the top of one branch being just an inch higher than the other, and causing the higher one to take the lead, where as if they were simply caused to be the same height they would share growth pattern. Clearly demonstrating that the plant can sense gravity and level.

Good read, VG.
 
darwinsbulldog

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hoosierdaddy said:
Auxins and their triggers are also very intriguing. To me these sorts of hormonal actions are more akin to "thinking". Amazing to me how the plant can sense the top of one branch being just an inch higher than the other, and causing the higher one to take the lead, where as if they were simply caused to be the same height they would share growth pattern. Clearly demonstrating that the plant can sense gravity and level.

Good read, VG.
Click to expand...

that's it mate, evolution kicks as and selects for some seemingly "smart" organisms when they're just doing what they need to to survive better than those that couldn't/didn't evolve those capabilities. lol and of course they can sense gravity, how do you think seeds germed in soil know which way is up before they're in the light?

what would be interesting is growing plants in 0 gravity. they've done experiments with young mammals etc that are born on earth, and in space (no gravity). they did it with mice and dropped both mice that had been born on earth and those in space into containers of water (they hold their breath don't worry) the mice that were born on earth oriented themselves so they landed on the bottom of the container on their feet, those that were born in space had know idea which way was up or down and just kept twisting around and around. interesting stuff, so it showed that embryos learn about gravity in the womb before they're even born, so when they are they can move around properly. i wonder what would happen to plants in space compared to ones here, as well as if you took ones that were grown in space back to earth and let them keep growing. would this affect their growth? their fibre % and structuring? even if leaves still oriented themselves towards the light could the plant grow up properly?

but yeah re: "thinking and remembering", science articles and stories etc will often sensationalise stuff to get you to read it even if it's not literally true, and most of the time those stories in the paper or mags aren't written by scientists. lol you can't think or remember without an advanced nervous system (not all animals can think and remember, lol gold fish can!) but yeah as hoosier says it's definitely akin to it. thanks for posting! :D very interesting stuff
 
VerdantGreen

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hmm i think that the 'thinking' and 'remembering' claim is actually pretty justified (as well as being a snappy headline ), we already knew about the flow of hormones through plants but this is an electro chemical response which is much more akin to the way our brains and nervous systems work - information is transmitted with electricity, and if the reaction continues after the stimulus is taken away then that is a memory of sorts.

one thing that crossed my mind in relevence to mj was that, if you are using UV light to stimulate more trics, it could mean that you may not need to expose the whole plant to the same level of UV light, just a part of the plant close to the bulb may create the desired effect in the whole plant if the reaction to the light is relayed through the bundle sheath cells.

VG
 
G

greentrich

Member
one thing that crossed my mind in relevence to mj was that, if you are using UV light to stimulate more trics, it could mean that you may not need to expose the whole plant to the same level of UV light, just a part of the plant close to the bulb may create the desired effect in the whole plant if the reaction to the light is relayed through the bundle sheath cells.
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That's a great thought VG. One I hadn't thought of, and one I wish could be tested as it sounds like [from the article] could be true.

The whole time I was reading that I'm thinking..."I'm missing the point here somehow." It seemed they were just regurgitating things we already knew, only with different wording.
Thanks for clearing it up for me, NOW I see the point.
(Maybe I just had to smoke first??? ;))
 
englishrick

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sounds like epigenetics,,,,


imo,,,epigenetic silencing is responcable for a genotype not reaching its full expressive potential
 
Mr. Greengenes

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I was thinking that, for the purposes of this discussion, we need to define thinking. ;) People who study animal behavior have been redefining the line between humans and other animals like crazy in recent times. Used to be that animals couldn't practice deceit let alone have anything like what we humans call culture. BTW, "The Ape and the Sushi Master" by Franz de Waal is a good read on animal culture. And so, we keep drawing the line closer, and closer. Pretty soon, it will turn out that the only thing that separates H. sapiens from other species is that we're a different species! It was always obvious, but it took a tough guy like Chuck Darwin to stand up to incorrect popular opinion. To define thinking as something unique only to humans would be doomed from the start. I think it would be better to try to widen the definition than narrow it.
 
ibjamming

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Good point Mr G!

I say the same thing all the time...there's something going on in their head.

The problem is...people don't want to think...that their food...thinks.
 
O

olsmokey

Member
but in that case people wouldn't have trouble with the shade buds.

VerdantGreen said:
one thing that crossed my mind in relevence to mj was that, if you are using UV light to stimulate more trics, it could mean that you may not need to expose the whole plant to the same level of UV light, just a part of the plant close to the bulb may create the desired effect in the whole plant if the reaction to the light is relayed through the bundle sheath cells.

VG
Click to expand...
 
localman

localman

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Find me a plant that does the OPPOSITE of what is typical behavoir and I might say it could "think" only if the choice was made over a reaction in form but CHOICE....

Plants DONT CHOOSE
so
Plants Cant Think....
 
VerdantGreen

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olsmokey if you are talking about small shade buds then that is due to the lack of photosynthesis by the leaves that feed that bud. the leaf that is attached to the bud is what primarily feeds it, as well as a small amount of photosynthesis by the bud itself.

what i was theorising about is a defense mechanism being triggered across the whole plant by a proportion of the plant that recieved the stimulus - in this case UV light.

as for the definition of thought, that is a whole other philosophical discussion :D. as i said i can feel the comparison they have used due to the electronic nature of the message as opposed to hormonal. its a pretty amazing discovery imo whatever you want to call it. i just reproduced the tag line as it was already written.
 
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