Spotted what I think are russet mites...what do I do now?

gsxr97 said:

What’s your exact recipe for grandevo/venerate mix? Conserve SC recipe ?
How often you rotate ? Sorry if you already answered this.


I’ve got all these , but ratios for cannabis seem different when I’ve talked to supplier,

Thanks

Click to expand...

Edit:read below the correct/updated application rate ( sorry I incorrect , but that’s what it was at the time and labeled on my bottles and so forth )


Grandevo 1-3 tablespoons per gal
THAN switch to
Venerate 2-5 tablespoons per gal
And back and forth. Benefit is you can go to harvest and nothing gains resistance, spinosad and many other things can’t be used in flower and are limited in indoors or how many times you use it.




Conserve sc for mites 5.9 ml ( can be mixed with ethier )

Rotate based on pest issue

Organilush said:

What does "CG" stand for? What is the "non-CG version"?






Cool!

I do have a bottle of "Captain Jacks" Spinosad on hand. Are you saying this stuff is the same as "conserve sc" just much less concentrated? (actually I just looked on the labels of both products and just saw that's exactly the case, both are the same but Captain Jacks is just less concentrated). Thanks for giving me a heads up about this!

So I'll just be making and using a more concentrated solution of the Captain Jacks than I have been.



In simple/basic terms, what are the differences between spinosad, grandevo, & venerate? Do any of them kill on contact? Or does the mite/pest die after they've ate plant matter that has one of those miticides on it?

I understand the basics of spinosad & BT....I know they are a bacterium of sorts and when a pest eats plant material that has spinosad or BT on it they eventually die. Is this how grandevo/venerate work as well or do they have some sort of impact on the soft body of the mite that kills it on contact?



Thanks ExoticsRus!....Thanks for replying to my question and thanks a lot for the info and suggestions you've given me, I very much appreciate it! I've been stressing about this the past couple days and you've helped me feel a bit better about the situation lol.

Thanks to everyone else that's offered some advice & info as well....I just don't have the time to reply to everything I want to right now.





.

Click to expand...

1. cg stands for “ Cultivated garden” but it really means indoor hydro garden store version instead of big ag version , I’ve talked to the reps and looked at the %, same exact % / if it was me I would save the cash and not pay for a stupid label that means nothing on safety .

2. yes captain jacks is just a over priced version of conserve sc ( big ag uses that ) the way spinosad attacks a pest is makes their muscles retract and makes them into a zombie in till they die , wouldn’t that be fun? it’s super safe ( key is to not kill the bees since they are a insect too )

3. how does Grandevo /venerate against pest? It’s a dead fungi (the terp the pest they are attracted ) and then once they eat it, it kills them. I have you a full tour of the company and they explain everything thing in full detail and every product. Very cool!

4. conserve sc/spinosad = the “knockout” but the down fall is you can’t use it after 3/4th week of bloom and has limit on sprays ( like many )


Story on spinosad :
https://youtu.be/7866pqzY0jY

Grandevo

https://marronebio.com/products/grandevo/

venerate xc
https://marronebio.com/products/venerate/

Oops they ethier adjusted/edited the amounts since I talked to the reps and looked at the pdf’s/manuals because I just rechecked myself on the application rate for Grandevo and venerate and regalia .

Regalia CG for plant health, botrytis, powdery mildew
Dip: Dip immediately prior to transplant. Solution of 1 tbsp/gal.
Drench: 1-2 tbsp/gal solution. 7 day intervals.
Foliar: 1.28 – 2.56 tbsp/gallon. Apply at 7 day intervals.

Grandevo CG for whitefly, russet mites, mealybug, thrips, aphids
Foliar: 0.62-1.85 tbsp/gal of water. Apply at 7 day intervals.
Alternate with Venerate CG.
Venerate CG for whitefly, russet mites, mealybug, thrips, aphids
Foliar: 2-5 tbsp/gal of water. Apply at 7 day intervals. Alternate with Grandevo CG.
Drench: 2.5-5 tbsp/gal solution. 10–14 day intervals.

I was putting 3-4 tablespoons of Grandevo ( and I have 5 gal spraying +) that def saves, thing is just shows this stuff def is for big ag cause I still have my last years bag and it on;y cost me 115 bucks and I bought a 2nd bag and I thought I would of wiped my first one out the beg of the year . Very concentrated and very compatible with to mix with other stuff ( everything from this brand is and I love it) makes it is so I can use for example seagreen and tru bloom/terp gerp and my plants go crazy for it like crackheads ( those bennies and organic pgr’s )


https://primordialsolutions.com/

I applied some spinosad last night, much more concentrated than I usually do. Sprayed it on very thick & thoroughly on every plant.

I am seeing no difference today, only more leaves with their edges curling.

At this point I am seeing signs of mites on all of my plants, and from this morning until now this evening I can notice a lot more leaves with their edges curling even in that short amount of time.

I can't find grandevo or venerate at local grow shops and I also can't spare 7 to 14 days for the stuff to be shipped to me.

I really don't know wtf to do. I'm trying to stay hopeful and trying to find something local that will work but I expect to lose everything seeing how they're spreading and seeing how I don't have a single bud that's developing properly on any plant and it's already getting into late Aug (my plants are usually starting to smell good and get frosted/sparkly with trichomes at this point, but there's zero trichomes and zero aroma on any of them).

I'm going to apply the last of my spinosad tonight and/or in the morning.





.

Organilush said:

I applied some spinosad last night, much more concentrated than I usually do. Sprayed it on very thick & thoroughly on every plant.

I am seeing no difference today, only more leaves with their edges curling.

At this point I am seeing signs of mites on all of my plants, and from this morning until now this evening I can notice a lot more leaves with their edges curling even in that short amount of time.

I can't find grandevo or venerate at local grow shops and I also can't spare 7 to 14 days for the stuff to be shipped to me.

I really don't know wtf to do. I'm trying to stay hopeful and trying to find something local that will work but I expect to lose everything seeing how they're spreading and seeing how I don't have a single bud that's developing properly on any plant and it's already getting into late Aug (my plants are usually starting to smell good and get frosted/sparkly with trichomes at this point, but there's zero trichomes and zero aroma on any of them).

I'm going to apply the last of my spinosad tonight and/or in the morning.





.

Click to expand...

You could contact the reps for closest local, you would be suprised on big ag place or places that are non cannabis related . worth a try

1.https://marronebio.com/territories/

2. There’s tons of online wholesalers , if it’s cheaper online and save ya cash ( use the saint and do a 1-2 day ship and rock and roll)

there’s so many websites that sell it , find the best price and it will be there within a week. you complained on why the spinosad didn’t “kill off “ you russets, no shit, it’s not a silver bullet ( hints why I suggested use it ( mite rate and use Grandevo or venerate xc mixed together ) biocontrol + knockout will be better result than just knockout cause any of 100% not killed if they are attracted to your biocontrol - they would die, that’s the benefit . it’s about reapplication and keeping the fight cause outdoors and when you have a “jungle”. Don’t ever think you will be clean, the key is to kill enough to have clean bud and have a good yield Nd not use nasty pesticides to do it


thing is even floramite and many unregulated Miticides do not instantly kill off your problem , you have to use multiple action and be pro active

An update on my situation with mites.....



A day or two after my last reply, a bit over a week ago, I made a mixture of rosemary essential oil, lavender essential oil, castile soap, and iso-alcohol all diluted in water. (15ml oils, 5ml castile soap, 15ml 70% alcohol...all mixed with about 50oz of water).

I applied this after sunset and the following morning I'd give the plants a thorough rinse down with water from the hose, I did this two days in a row.

On the third day I gave the plants a foliar of aloe with a small amount of lavender oil (the last bit of what I had).

The 4th day I didn't do anything. At this point I was no longer seeing an increase in the amount of leaves with their edges curling spreading through my plants, I wasn't spotting any new leaves or portions of branches that had new leaves curling. The situation wasn't looking any "better" but it certainly wasn't looking worse either. I feel like I wiped out a large portion of the mites at this point.

The 5th day I used a small sample of some enzyme/citric acid based pesticide/fungicide that I was told works for mites and read some good things about ("Dr. Zymes"). I only had enough for one application and barely enough to cover all of my plants thoroughly.

The 6th day...This is the day where I actually started to notice an improvement. The tops of the plants had more of a green glow to them again. White pistils were starting to emerge from buds that previously had pistils that were dead on arrival/brown & shriveled, the buds are starting to swell up & develop and have a green glow to them again, and trichomes were starting to form & the buds have some aroma to them. I didn't apply anything to my plants.

On the 8th day I got an actual bottle of that enzyme/citric acid based stuff and was able to give my plants a thorough application of it.


It's been 2 days since then, so the 10th day since I started this battle......Buds are swelling up on all of my plants, they're pushing out white pistils, trichomes are forming, and I'm not seeing any signs of mites.


The mixture of oils/soap/alcohol did cause some phytotoxic damage on a couple of my plants but nothing that I'd consider too severe (speckled burn marks on some of the leaves and some early developing buds were burnt), the rest of my plants weren't impacted by it.



So it's looking like I just might have a bit of something to harvest after all, but my overall weight will def be a bit less and I feel my plants/buds missed out on a solid 14 days of proper un-inhibited growth/development as the "life" was essentially being sucked out of them by the mites so the quality may be impacted as well.

My plan from here on out is to apply this enzyme/citric acid based stuff every 4 days or so then to only once a week if I'm not noticing any signs of mites at all at that point. I feel that my mixture of oils/soap/alcohol definitely helped to wipe out the mites but it's a little harsh on some of the plants so I won't be using it from here on out, I do feel it helped tho!

I was considering getting some Beauveria bassiana as well (an entomopathogenic fungi ), but I'm trying to spend as little $ as possible right now and feel like this enzyme/citric acid based stuff I got should help my plants make it to harvest.



This was a lesson learned though. Next time around I'll definitely have a better pest management regimen in place. Next year I plan on using one or two microbial and/or fungi based bio-insecticides, and likely this enzyme/citric acid based stuff if it proves to be effective over the next few weeks.

I'll pop back in here for another update in a week or so and let ya'll know how things are going.

No longer seeing leaves with curled edges and seeing my buds developing as they should with white pistils & trichomes has me feeling some relief for sure though!




And thanks again to ExoticsRus and everyone else for offering me some advice & help, I appreciate it.







.

Just keep up the spraying every 3-4 days to break the adult-larvae life cycle and keep your fingers crossed.


Next year, I highly recommend spraying your plants with wettable sulfur a few weeks before flowering starts and it should give you a clean head start for flowering. It will only set you back $10 and they will be dead within 24 hours. As a bonus it helps keep PM at bay as well.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jen.12684

https://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjb/v76n3/1519-6984-bjb-76-3-629.pdf

Than a general link:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/beauveria


Botanigard is the commercial name of B. bassiania. Its super effective against all soft body insects. I've gotten 100% control of two spotted spider mite multiple times with this product, but you have to do certain things:

1. Spray 100% of the surfaces. Think its impossible, its not. Just time consuming.
2. Double the recommended dose. Its not toxic, but effectiveness is highly dependent on concentration. May be the difference between 75% elimination and over 90% elimination.
3. Spray every other day for 10-20 days. Its ineffective against eggs. This way you get them after they hatch.

Downside to botaniguard is that its expensive.

That’s my plan next year , sulfur thru veg. Wish I would have this year . Live and learn .

Trying out pyganic for them aphids,

kalopatchkid said:

Just keep up the spraying every 3-4 days to break the adult-larvae life cycle and keep your fingers crossed.


Next year, I highly recommend spraying your plants with wettable sulfur a few weeks before flowering starts and it should give you a clean head start for flowering. It will only set you back $10 and they will be dead within 24 hours. As a bonus it helps keep PM at bay as well.

Click to expand...

kalopatchkid said:

Just keep up the spraying every 3-4 days to break the adult-larvae life cycle and keep your fingers crossed.


Next year, I highly recommend spraying your plants with wettable sulfur a few weeks before flowering starts and it should give you a clean head start for flowering. It will only set you back $10 and they will be dead within 24 hours. As a bonus it helps keep PM at bay as well.

Click to expand...

I'll probably end up using some microbial & fungi based bio-insecticides as my pest management regimen next time around. Things like grandevo and/or venerate and/or Beauveria bassiana .

But if this enzyme/citric acid based stuff I'm using right now proves to be effective then I will definitely have it on hand next year using it once every 10 days or so through out the grow. (it also helps with mold/mildew/fungi issues, but it's quite hot & dry in my area so I'm not at a big risk)

Sulfur does seem like a good cheap option for when plants are still in veg tho. If I ever encounter an infestation while in veg I'll likely give it a try as a knock out. With the regimen I want to have next time around I hope to never deal with any sort of pest issue again.

These mites are the first "real" pest issue I've had to deal with where I could have potentially lost pretty much all of my plants and ended with no harvest. I had some caterpillars take out a few of my colas two years ago but I still had plenty to harvest, these hemp/russet mites were totally preventing my buds from developing at all. Nasty things.




My plants are still looking good today, I may even say great!...continuing to swell up in size and become more frosted with trichomes each day. I'm not seeing any curled leaves anywhere. I'm going to do a spray down this evening with that "Dr. Zymes" stuff but with a bit milder of a mixture, it's been 4 days since the last time, then after that I'll probably wait 5 to 7 days before I do so again if everything keeps looking good.







.

I've been meaning to try citric acid as its used in a lot of newer products like Athena Ag's IPM.

ExoticsRus said:

Oops they ethier adjusted/edited the amounts since I talked to the reps and looked at the pdf’s/manuals because I just rechecked myself on the application rate for Grandevo and venerate and regalia .

Regalia CG for plant health, botrytis, powdery mildew
Dip: Dip immediately prior to transplant. Solution of 1 tbsp/gal.
Drench: 1-2 tbsp/gal solution. 7 day intervals.
Foliar: 1.28 – 2.56 tbsp/gallon. Apply at 7 day intervals.

Grandevo CG for whitefly, russet mites, mealybug, thrips, aphids
Foliar: 0.62-1.85 tbsp/gal of water. Apply at 7 day intervals.
Alternate with Venerate CG.
Venerate CG for whitefly, russet mites, mealybug, thrips, aphids
Foliar: 2-5 tbsp/gal of water. Apply at 7 day intervals. Alternate with Grandevo CG.
Drench: 2.5-5 tbsp/gal solution. 10–14 day intervals.

I was putting 3-4 tablespoons of Grandevo ( and I have 5 gal spraying +) that def saves, thing is just shows this stuff def is for big ag cause I still have my last years bag and it on;y cost me 115 bucks and I bought a 2nd bag and I thought I would of wiped my first one out the beg of the year . Very concentrated and very compatible with to mix with other stuff ( everything from this brand is and I love it) makes it is so I can use for example seagreen and tru bloom/terp gerp and my plants go crazy for it like crackheads ( those bennies and organic pgr’s )


https://primordialsolutions.com/

Click to expand...

Buddy I can't thank you enough for all of your contributions here regarding Grandevo and Venerate. About 4 weeks into flower I noticed a small section of foliage that had spider mite damage. Bought some Venerate CG from the local hydro shop. Found out about a week later I was supposed to be rotating it with Grandevo so I went back and bought the Grandevo CG. I'm due for another application of Grandevo tonight and have been emailing Marrone sales reps back and forth for a couple of days regarding the clay residue that the product leaves behind on the leaves. I applied Grandevo CG @ 4TBSP/gallon. I see the recommendation you posted calling for 1.85TBSP/gallon. Thanks for reinforcing my belief that I bought the right products for the problem I'm having. I almost wasn't going to apply the Grandevo tonight, but I'm feeling more confident now with the correct application rate there won't be any issues.


Also, thank you for helping me save some money on their products for future purchases by scoring the ones without the "CG" designation. I really can't thank you enough for all the great information here. I've been scouring the web for days and this is just the thread I have been looking for!


Here's a pic of my garden.

I posted an old out of date photo by mistake. Added another 600w HPS mid cycle. No edit function

ExoticsRus said:

Oops they ethier adjusted/edited the amounts since I talked to the reps and looked at the pdf’s/manuals because I just rechecked myself on the application rate for Grandevo and venerate and regalia .

Regalia CG for plant health, botrytis, powdery mildew
Dip: Dip immediately prior to transplant. Solution of 1 tbsp/gal.
Drench: 1-2 tbsp/gal solution. 7 day intervals.
Foliar: 1.28 – 2.56 tbsp/gallon. Apply at 7 day intervals.

Grandevo CG for whitefly, russet mites, mealybug, thrips, aphids
Foliar: 0.62-1.85 tbsp/gal of water. Apply at 7 day intervals.
Alternate with Venerate CG.
Venerate CG for whitefly, russet mites, mealybug, thrips, aphids
Foliar: 2-5 tbsp/gal of water. Apply at 7 day intervals. Alternate with Grandevo CG.
Drench: 2.5-5 tbsp/gal solution. 10–14 day intervals.

I was putting 3-4 tablespoons of Grandevo ( and I have 5 gal spraying +) that def saves, thing is just shows this stuff def is for big ag cause I still have my last years bag and it on;y cost me 115 bucks and I bought a 2nd bag and I thought I would of wiped my first one out the beg of the year . Very concentrated and very compatible with to mix with other stuff ( everything from this brand is and I love it) makes it is so I can use for example seagreen and tru bloom/terp gerp and my plants go crazy for it like crackheads ( those bennies and organic pgr’s )


https://primordialsolutions.com/

Click to expand...

Useful info, would you spray throughout flower as well?

Stev3 said:

Useful info, would you spray throughout flower as well?

Click to expand...

key is if using non biocontrols like a knockoutoit or most common pesticides to stop on week 3/4 (inless manual states )

grandevo ,venerate and regalia can all safely be used till end no problem ( been doing em for years and np)

if you don’t have any visible evidence of pest population stop both grandevo and venerate xc at week 6 (but foliar regalia )if pest are still there do all bio fung/pesticide .

key is to stop both biofingicide and bio pesticide a week before harvest cause they control beyond that . No reason to add more than that even though it won’t contaminate

ExoticsRus said:

key is if using non biocontrols like a knockoutoit or most common pesticides to stop on week 3/4 (inless manual states )

grandevo ,venerate and regalia can all safely be used till end no problem ( been doing em for years and np)

if you don’t have any visible evidence of pest population stop both grandevo and venerate xc at week 6 (but foliar regalia )if pest are still there do all bio fung/pesticide .

key is to stop both biofingicide and bio pesticide a week before harvest cause they control beyond that . No reason to add more than that even though it won’t contaminate

Click to expand...

Cool, thanks brother. These things have been kicking my ass lately. Going to try Grandevo, Venerate, Regalia combo