I need help, I can't figure this one out!

slownickel · Aug 8, 2016

If you raise your calcium with milk instead of calcium sulfate (your report shows you drown in S compared to your P) that would be better.

I figure the equivalent of 16 oz or so of milk, diluted with 6 times more water first would be the best.

The problem is you have no drainage. Make the french drains. Or drive metal spikes into the soil. Ideally you would just turn on the water and leach the salts away.

A good seaweed helps against salts. Read up on the concept of SAR in water. If you get calcium up high enough, it dilutes the effect of high conductivity on plant roots, which is your problem.

Your real problem is drainage. Everything is accumulating and you have no way to get rid of it.

Milk and seaweed will help. You can spray foliar P on in the meantime.

cbcool · Aug 8, 2016

slownickel said:
CB,

What is the pH of your water?

Add phosphoric acid very slowly to your water and take it to pH of 6.3 to 6.4, tell us how much does it take to get there per gallon. Ideally you would calculate everything in ml, grams and liters. The math is a zillion times easier....

Drench it through the whole pot.

I don't currently have phos acid, I've been using citric at 0.3g/gal, I'll try to get some phos acid. Water pH out of the well has been 7.8-8.0

slownickel · Aug 8, 2016

Get a water analysis including Ca, Mg, Na, Fe, Mn, bicarbonates, carbonates and Na. They probably have a package.

Do you see white buildups from this water?

How deep is the well?

corky1968 · Aug 8, 2016

I hope you like reading some more. LOLZ

Building Soils for Better Crops

Managing Cover Crops Profitably

cbcool · Aug 8, 2016

slownickel said:
If you raise your calcium with milk instead of calcium sulfate (your report shows you drown in S compared to your P) that would be better.

I figure the equivalent of 16 oz or so of milk, diluted with 6 times more water first would be the best.

The problem is you have no drainage. Make the french drains. Or drive metal spikes into the soil. Ideally you would just turn on the water and leach the salts away.

A good seaweed helps against salts. Read up on the concept of SAR in water. If you get calcium up high enough, it dilutes the effect of high conductivity on plant roots, which is your problem.

Your real problem is drainage. Everything is accumulating and you have no way to get rid of it.

Would that be 16oz of milk/gal? So 5gal of milk for 400gal of water?Milk and seaweed will help. You can spray foliar P on in the meantime.

Could you expand on how to install the French drain? I know how they work against a house or through a field I'm just unsure how to do it next to a living plant?

What is SAR in water, I think it means search and rescue but unsure.?

cbcool · Aug 8, 2016

slownickel said:
Get a water analysis including Ca, Mg, Na, Fe, Mn, bicarbonates, carbonates and Na. They probably have a package.

Do you see white buildups from this water?

How deep is the well?

Technically it's a piped spring, so depth unknown, haven't seen any build ups.

I was going to send a water sample to spectrum when I send the soil in.

cbcool · Aug 8, 2016

corky1968 said:
I hope you like reading some more. LOLZ

Building Soils for Better Crops

Managing Cover Crops Profitably

Love it, been reading through the last links all day, trying to learn what I can, thank you for the resources and the help!

Between you, slow , and FF I have a lot of work and a lot to learn. You guys have opened my eyes to a serious soil chemistry world, I love it but stressful at the same time.

I'm sure it will get easier with time and knowledge.

slownickel · Aug 8, 2016

SAR

SAR

http://www.salinitymanagement.org/Salinity Management Guide/ls/ls_4b.html

Shortened URL just in case. http://goo.gl/Gqhf03

This explains the concept and calculation for Sodium vs Ca and Mg.

And don't ever even think about using magnesium to push the SAR. It is calcium that needs to be pushed.

cbcool · Aug 8, 2016

Ok, thanks for the links, I love research ask my wife, I know it sounds facetious , but I really do love research and learning.

cbcool · Aug 8, 2016

cbcool said:
What is SAR in water, I think it means search and rescue but unsure.?

Sodium absorption ratio, I don't know whether to feel dumber or smarter at this point.

slownickel · Aug 8, 2016

It basically means that one can neutralize the effect of sodium and conductivity provided there is enough calcium.

I use the example of coffee and sugar. If you like your coffee with only 1 tsp of sugar and someone dumps in 5 tsp of sugar, you won't like it. You can't take the sugar out, all you can do is dilute the sugared coffee with a bunch on non-sugared coffee.

Right now your soil is so sweet with fertilizers that they can't handle it. What is missing? Coffee (calcium) in this case. That is what the SAR is all about. The same concept of SAR in water works for soil. That is where the distribution of bases came from originally....

cbcool · Aug 9, 2016

The cup is drainage and soil texture, the coffee is soil and water, and the sugar is nutrients and amendments, and I'm the plant!? I don't want the coffee cause it has more sugar then I normally want, but I can't dilute my coffee to where I want it cause the cups already full, bad drainage and high salt content.

I like your analogy it puts it into perfect perspective.

I have some holocal from AEA , can I use that as a source of calcium to flush the soil?

corky1968 · Aug 9, 2016

This link may help.

Happy reading.

Salt-Affected Soils and their Management

cbcool · Aug 9, 2016

Thanks corky, I have read several similar sites today, the question is do I have saline, saline-sodic, or sodic soil!? From what I can see based on pH and EC I believe I have saline soil and from what I can tell is the lesser of the three evils.

I'm still trying digest everything I read today, kind of in information overload.

slownickel · Aug 9, 2016

Holocal is calcium carbonate along with boron and some woooojjoooo (water).

Not sure what pH the stuff is at. Try it... can't hurt.

Powdered milk has 5000 ppm of P and 10,000 ppm of Ca. 10,000 ppm = 1%

Holocal has 7% but in carbonate form.

What does Holocal cost and what does cheap powdered milk cost you?

I would argue you are better with the powdered milk, especially for the P.

cbcool · Aug 9, 2016

Valid point as always, I did not know that milk had P in it. I'm sure as shit powdered milk is way cheaper and if it has that much P in it that's two birds with one stone.

slownickel · Aug 9, 2016

Got milk?

How bout some milk with da coffee?

cbcool · Aug 9, 2016

So I would need about 25 boxes to make a 6:1 in 400gal H2O, one box makes two gallons, what about the sodium? The box I'm looking at has 125mg per serving that's 4g of sodium a box or 4000 mg, will that affect the salt content of the soil?

slownickel · Aug 9, 2016

Read the numbers completely. Is that mg/100 gr? mg/per what?

What are you reading, what box? Box of dried milk? What does the box weigh?

I have a bag in front of me, it says 96 grams of powder makes 4 glasses of milk. Basically 24 gr/glass.

If you were to give 2 glasses, 48 grams per plant. You have a small diameter, cut it back to 1 glass or 24 grams/plant.

The Peruvians don't put sodium on the label. Give me your whole label or take a photo and post it.

cbcool · Aug 9, 2016

This is the powdered milk I was looking at.

I need help, I can't figure this one out!

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