Anybody here into self-sufficent food growing/Sustainable growing?

HortProOrganics

What's your opinion about John Jeavons' work down in California?

I've done several workshops at his garden and while I disagree with 'some' of his methods, i.e. double-dig vs. the work noted in "The One Straw Revolution' I still hold that Jeavon's work has validity.

I would appreciate your input.

CC

As a whole, he has it going on. Never been to his workshop, just read some articles and technical journals, and, I do have some disagreements, but that is what makes sustainable farming focused on individual needs and self reliance through this.

One of the things I don't agree on is his corn and certain grains thing. I personally don't believe corn should play a huge role in our diet, but that is just me. You can't always agree on everything, but one thing is for sure- when the shit hits the fan, the sustainable living and agriculture is going to be the drive to pick up the pieces-as utilize the shit that the fan spread about.

Corn makes a nice companion plant when growing multi-crops in the same space. In the least corn makes a good wind break / natural barrier. We use (pop) corn as natural support for legume and squash crops using the '3 Sisters' method

Hope this helps

If I had more room I could get closer to being self-sufficient. I try to do as much as I can, but we still buy a good amount of stuff at the grocery.

bump

awesome i love this thread... having been raised in agriculture (commercial and family not sustainable by method but by need) my entire life ive been witness to alot of systems and techniques from crop farming to high intensity commercial feedlots and i can say that small sustainable or "hobby" farming as some of the big boys would call it is going to be the only way we can maintain ourselves here on earth... i was until just a few weeks ago working on a 16,000 head sow farm that bred and weined 2500 feeder pigs a week until i just couldnt take it any more and not only quit but turned down a chance to manage the farm... as far as creating a farm or farmette to achieve sustainability Hortpro is leading you in the right direction... the raising of crops suitable to youre environment will be your biggest worry and hes also 100% right in pointing you to your county extension agency (imma long time 4H'er whoop whoop haha) for info and help...as far as the livestock are concerned there are so many ways to raise fresh meat/ protein without using any traditional or commercial style...ive made my living off of raising meat rabbits and selling them to packers in jersey and new york who sell to ethnic markets, showing purebred hogs (yorkshires,hampshires and spotted polland chinas) purebred meat goats (Boers and Spanish Meat goats) and raising bottle fed vealers (i know im a monster ha)... its all about your personal situation, your local agro-economy and the amount of space and time you have to put into it (oh yea and $$$$$$ ha)... the raising of poultry is by far has the least impact on the land and also on your wallet..i noticed you saying you wanted to build extensive chicken runs and while i wont try to talk you out of it i just want to put out there that ive raised chickens, ducks, geese, and guineas (i hate these loud annoying ass birds but they taste so good ha) and always kept them free range ( no cages or fenches at all just a coup where they are fed and lay their eggs and can come and go as they please)... i raise broiler turkeys that i do nothing with other than throw them in the pasture with my boer goats and let them pick up the scraps the goats leave behind and i always have more turkey than i know what to do with...rabbits are also very cheap and easy way to raise meat if you can handle skinning em haha ( i can clean one in about 3 to 4 minutes )... rabbits also require more housing and rigorous feeding schedule but if you only have a few and not a couple hundred or thousand you should be fine... also rabbit is the healthiest meat and they have a much better manure than poultry...now as you stray away from the small meat animals and move into the large ones the amount of money, time, space all increase with the size of the animal... i saw you were talking about Boer goats which i raise and show... these guys can be a wonderful investment and theyre just amazing little goofy creatures ( i have a 350 pound south african billy so i guess their not that little are they haha) but they are harder to house as theyre great escape artists ( i keep mine in expensive ass 12 foot american fencing that i originally setup for buffalo and elk that i used to toy with)... hogs will provide you with a lot of fresh meat with minimal work as well its just they require more intensive housing (yes you can raise them on grass if you like chasing hogs around all the time but i dont as ive witnessed them root their way out of fencing that was buried three feet deep) and also butchering and processing of the larger animals is more intense but in the same right you also get alot more out of it...you can raise your own beef too although this will cost you the most in feed/ the cost of purchasing the animal/ and probably also housing... your best bet here as well with most of the other species i mentioned earlier is to go to a local livestock auction and try to get animals that are healthy and thrifty while still selling cheaply... you wont be able to get livestock at a cheaper price than this and if you know the seasonal meat markets you can buy when the price is low and sell your excess when its high... i love raising brown swiss cattle for meat even though they are specifically bred for milk production... their carcass is a much higher quality than other dairy breeds and you can usually pick up young weanlings for under a 100 dollars... bottle feed him till hes eating only grain adn roughage with no problems then put him out to pasture and give him a light supply of grain wait till hes about 1100 or 1200 (this is a generality and depends on each individual animal as to what weight they finish out at ) pounds and boom you got yourself over 500 pounds of fresh beef... overall if you got the time money and space along with a little bit of brains, balls and ingenuity you can go pull off what you want no problem

(im sorry bout rambling but i went to school for large animal sciences and can talk about meat production all day haha)

ribsauce, Im looking to buy a few piglets(is that the right term?) to house and feed and my buddy's farm to get me some meat for the freezer. (i love pork steak. so fucking good) what should I be looking to purchase? any specific breed of pig?

hey john i got a couple tips for ya that i hope can help ya out... first i guess it depends on what you want em for and how big ya want em... if you're into the organic deal or tryin to get a purebred (more expensive) you would do better by contacting a local producer which you could find by doing a search for "Your Location pork producers" and browsing some of the websites you may find... im assuming that the pedigree doesnt matter if these are only gonna be market animals used for meat... if this is the case i would suggest tryin to go to a local livestock auction as this will be your cheapest route...you might as well just get a crossbred because they will generally out pace purebreds based on hybrid vigor in a market situation and they cost a fraction of their purebred brothers...ok now assuming you go to an auction what you should try to do is get there a little early and do a walk around in the back of the cat walks where the animals are held prior to the sale...now what you want to look for depends on where your gonna be keeping them and what your looking to get out of them...what i would do is try to get a couple smaller weanling pigs or shoats that weigh between 25 and 50 pounds... pigs at this size are just being weined from their mothers milk and transitioning over to solid feed so it is a stressful and crucial time period for them...these small pigs (id at least get two so they dont get lonely) you can then feed out till they are between 250 and 300 pounds which is their peak weight and meat maturity...ok so now back to the livestock auction and what to actually look for... youre gonna want animals that are gonna produce the most quality meat you can and you need to keep this in mind when selecting the animal...frist you need to make sure the animal isnt sick or injured in any way...identify sick pigs by looking for ones that are listless, have a hairy face or aged look that doesnt match the rest of the body, ones that ears are drooped down unnaturally (alot of pigs have floppy ears and this is normal but if a pig has erect ears and the tips are hanging down and its head is held low it is definitely sick)... the sick pigs will be the ones who dont even care or seem to notice your presence...a healthy pig will either see you and turn and run or be playing or fighting with the other pigs... you must also make sure these pigs arent lame or have a defect in their gait as this will prevent them from ever producing you anything...for this just try to get them up in the pens and watch them walk around for a couple seconds....now if youre looking at a couple of pigs that youve identified to be healthy then the easiest method of livestock judging is to just pick the biggest haha... look for the one thats the widest across the back (loin), has a nice robust side (pork belly/bacon) and have no ribs showing, and have a wide deep and long ham (ass haha) and any muscling or definition you can see in the ham or butt ha is good as it expresses muscling in the meat...youre not tryin to win any competitions or anything so the major part of it is just making sure you get healthy pigs...as far as breeds go as ive stated before id go with a crossbred over purebred because of cost and purpose... id look for pigs that are either all white with erect ears (yorkshires and crosses), all black except for a white band around front shoulders (hampshire), or reddish-brown pigs with floopy ears (durocs) or the most common crossbred a blue butt which is a white (york) X black (hamp ) cross which either will be all white with a few black or blue dots or white with a blue butt haha basically id look for anythign that has white and black in it with erect ears...if you have any questions about how to feed them out or anything at all just PM me and id be more than glad to help you and i can hopefully stop hijacking this thread haha

sorry for the rambling again i cant get high and talk about pork i got a problem

hey i forgot something about picking an animal that is kinda important... sex of the animal... you can go with either gilts (females who havent had a litter yet) or barrows (castrated males) but not boars(intact males) as they will not produce meat that you will want to eat unless you only like pepperoni ha...just make sure there isnt a pair of testicles on the pig and your pretty much good hahaha...

well i am definatly hanging on your every word so please instead of pm could you tell us here how to feed them? i am finding what you are saying quite fascinating and you sound like you really know what you are talking about. right now for me raising critters isnt a possibility but i am definatly planning on it as soon as the opportunity presents itself so i am just eating up what you are saying and locking it up in my stoner memory for future reference. much thanks!

not sure if this was covered but for Christmas I got a book titled "The Backyard Homestead" and I have to say it covers alot of good stuff.....mainly how to pack as much useful grows into your area to get the most........

Try to find a copy of Grow It on Amazon. It's out of print but usually available used. Great homesteading book, gives you solid practical advice on most everything rural. Five Acres and Independence is another homesteading classic which has been coming in and out of print for 70 years. Timeless advice.
Where do you find feeder pigs ? Craigs' list usually has them , obviously not the Manhattan CL, but the ones in Bumfuck routinely have feeders, layers, goats, calves, most everything needed for a back to the land lifestyle. Pennysavers out in the sticks as well.
Where do you find hog feed ? Your local feed mill, or Tractor Supply are 2 easy places to start. Want only organic ? I've never found a mill selling organic feeds, although I do buy sides of beef from a guy who grows his own feeds pretty naturally but not organic. Better know what you're doing first before you buy your own ingredients and start mixing them up. The above books have feed recipes for most everything, but organic grain ain't easy to find, and growing your own isn't easy either. I would suggest starting with a commercial blend until you know which end is up. I don't like antibiotics in my livestock either, but it's not pretty to find out that your less than stellar husbandry practices caused pneumonia or whatever to wipe out your whole herd/flock/sty while you were getting the hang of things.
Good luck to anybody trying this. It's not easy, there are bumps in the road, but it is a great road .

I am very much into self sufficiency. I can up everything I can grow, make all of our own bread, pizza.... I have some chickens for our eggs and will be adding honey bees and goats to the mix. I want to goats for milk, cheese, ice cream and butter. When we have more land I will get into market gardening to help pay the feed costs.

i dunno making hog feed is about as easy as a peanut butter and jelly sandwich

the ribs j master mix is as follows hahaha

corn
soybeans
hog vitamin and mineral premix (found at any feed mill)
(amounts vary based on your situation and the protein levels you want to achieve)

I dont raise enough beef to make my own chop for them but they can easily be fed out on alot of different things... ive found that adding brewers wastes makes an amazing filler(a filler that also provides normal flora important in digestion) for ruminants (cows, sheep, goats, horses) especially if you breed your own livestock for feeding open (unbred) stock...make sure no copper is used though if your feeding it to sheep cause they will be dead as a doornail the next morning... pretty much you can feed out most ruminants (EXCEPT SHEEP) on any horse, or cattle feed although you may need to supplement with mineral blocks and of course all ruminants need an equal amount of roughage (hay, grass, legumes) or more roughage than grain in order for proper digestion... on the same note you can also get general "livestock feed" pellets at stores like tractor supply and farm and family which will work for all ruminants and hogs although i wouldnt suggest it...this stuff is expensive and mostly just molasses to make it palatable and low in protein/fiber/fats when compared to a species specific formula

that being said i go mad scientist styleee when formulating my owns feeds... gotta try out everything and see what works best for you just as with anything... my boer goats which i show get fed a mixture of like 20 different bags of grains and supplements but with a base mixture of blue seal caprine challenger(blue seal all the way baby haha) and purina meat goat pellet... although ive found it best for my purebred hogs which are also show animals to be fed much more simply using ingredients almost entirely grown myself

What type hogs do you raise Ribsauce?

uhh yorkshires, hampshires and alot of spots and then also crossbreds consisting mostly of those three breeds with some PIC cambourgh line crossed with pietran cause im crazy ha

small scale fish farming is somthing im experimenting with this season, any experience would be greatly appriciated.

planted1-I don't know what you would consider small, but i have a neighbor (10mi) who has a fish farm...he's got three ponds (approx. 5 acres worth) and they cost him around $75k to build. In the state where I live...it costs more in taxes then it does for the fish market to purchase it from the Orient. Now this is just to let you know what something of that size costs (ballpark).
Now, I understand this is a thread about self sufficiency, and I am trying like heck to achieve that status too. We were running a nice amount of chickens this year and then the other day our dogs killed and ate all but one. I was so upset b/c I loved our chickens and what they meant to our ability to do our own thing.
I too want to get into pigs & goats. Our cows are on the way...we'll be starting with two cows to raise and eat (to feed 10 people for one year).
rib-how many pigs does it take to feed a family of four for a year? Thanks!

Rib is being quiet, but if i can remember - been a long time. Wife said if I got pigs again she'd leave - I think a 220 pound market hog gives about half of that ? in meat of various cuts. I fed a lot of bakery salvage from the Wonder Bread outlet. After it got too old to sell to humans things like stale bread, cake, about any kind of bread product went for $10 for a full sized pickup truck worth. We didn't have chickens then but I know folks used bakery salvage for them too. Friend of mine fed old bread to his cows. It is grain. If you think about it, nothing fattens you up like a few donuts.

The longer I live, the more I feel that is almost a duty for those with land to grow some food crops. The world is just to crazy to not have some hedge against food insecurity.



peace

fishheadbob-thanks for the information! We're supposed to be getting some cows very soon. The pigs or goats will be up next.