Dudding / Perpetual Sick Plants

Greetings.

I'm arguing with a perpetual war against lots of different symptoms for a year with having no clue about what was happening with girls and i tried everything from changing nutes, soil, pots, ph range, bulbs and all the setup. Last run was fucked up because of this, ended with half of the crop without any smell or resin...

2 months ago i started a new run with three different strains. One tray for strain. Each tray has like 20 plants from the same mom. Same light, same nutes, same temps same everything. A week before changing photoperiod to 12/12, I started to notice some stunted grow and different leaf shape in some of the plants from one table. A week after this, some plants started to yellow, and some not, some plants showed lack of sulphur, other ones like iron, other ones like N...
Here was when I understood that what was happening to my plants was something systemic, and they possible carried a disease. Started to search stuff and found the HpLvd and dudded/stunted plants and Cannabis disease Syndrome...

I have been changing clones and popping so many stuff, thinking about it, i remembered that i got one plant from seed in 2018 that made weird things and some stems flowered like hay, other normal...

1 month ago a friend told me to send them to a lab for testing, they ended testing negative for HpLvd, but we just send 10 leaves as sample and we got no clue wich part of the plant is best to send. Because even testing negative, the disease is still present and plants in my flower room are showing difference between them, some are fluffy and crispy like hay, with no resin and no smell. Others looks good as normal...

Those are some pics, im gonna post some of the symptoms i experienced, any help, experience or opinion is welcome.

*edit: Pics from day 58

This is the normal one. Lemon Lotus from Bodhi seed.





This is the dud.

Sorry for Hps pic and bad light, my camera is shit/half broke and i cant access easily to the buds to take pics.

*edit: Some interesting reads and videos for understanding this problem if any is interested.

https://manicbotanix.com/viruses-and-viroids-in-cannabis-and-hemp/

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.c...ns-the-threat-of-viral-cannabis-diseases-cds/


[YOUTUBEIF]https://youtu.be/n-9k3WSWwP0[/YOUTUBEIF]

[YOUTUBEIF]https://youtu.be/Y2_e9_TDfHM[/YOUTUBEIF]



Regards.

Symptoms on veg, wich can be different depending on the plant.

- Abnormal apical growth: Smaller than usual and some times deep serration.

- Lateral growth and lack of vigor on the apical stem.

- Bad nutrient absorption.

- Bad water absorption.

- Stunted root developement.

- Once plants are 1 month or so in a pot with regular feeding they start to show yellowing or chloriosis, wich could look like:
*lack of iron
*lack of sulfur
*lack of N
*lack of P
*interveinal chloriosis.

-If you let it go for some time looks like plants are locked out and has something to do with PH.

- When you take clones from the same mom, sometimes looks like there is some kind of phenotypical expression change, but i think this really is that some branches are more infected than others, then you are taking infected and not infected clones.

- They take so many time to root.


Symptoms in flowering.

- The infected plants and the ones that are really fucked up stop developing resin and flowers at some point close to week 3 - 5 and then you finnish harvesting a shitty quality product wich has no smell and no resin nor yield.

Regards.

Hi everyone, here Fakir's buddy.

These are also plants in the same grow room, also dudding.

GG4 dudding.



Wedding Cake dudding



As Fakir says, the lab tell us that the test it's negative to HpLVd.

Anyways, despite what the lab says, there is something weird on the plants.

What do you think about?

Is it just that the lab doesn't realize to identify the viroid or just there is not HpLVd but some other CDS?

Vibes

Muad' Dib said:

Hi everyone, here Fakir's buddy.

These are also plants in the same grow room, also dudding.

Vibes

Click to expand...

Thanks Muad' for posting the pics.

Some more pics of the duds in the room.

Lemon Lotus dud





Triangle Octane dud

Over watering can cause these symptoms . The fact it is varying plant to plant makes me lean towards this . How are you watering ?

What size potters ?
How often are you watering ?
How much water ?
Where does your water come from ?
How does your water source test ?

How saturated the soil is can effect pH /ppm/tds

Some pics from the girls that are performing nicely in the same room.

Lemon Lotus



Sour Mandarina aka Mandarina Biker.
Didn't found duds on this tray atm in this run, but last run half of the Mandarinas were duds...



As you can see this girls are doing super good, with a good and thick trichome coverage, hard buds, flowers are super meaty and smell like they are supossed to. I hold my clones because they always flower like this, even stressed. The dud thing is weird af.

Regards.

What are your room temps?
What is your humidity ?
How close are lights ?

Dankwolf said:

Over watering can cause these symptoms . The fact it is varying plant to plant makes me lean towards this . How are you watering ?

What size potters ?
How often are you watering ?
How much water ?
Where does your water come from ?
How does your water source test ?

How saturated the soil is can effect pH /ppm/tds

Click to expand...

Hey Dankwolf thanks for coming by here. I know what you saying, i've been trying everything also from underwatering my plants till overwatering to see if there is any difference in the veg plants and they keep doing this.

3 gal soil geotextile pots
every 3 for days, sometimes 4.
1 litre and a half per plant aprox
r/o water that sources at 5ppm, buffer it up till 10ppm and calg mag till 20ppm.
I hand water with a water pump and a one of those hose that has different watering modes. Always clean it when i end watering.
First i water a lil of plain water to moisturize dry soil and after 30 minutes when the soil is moist i water with the fertilizer solution till i get some drain.

Dankwolf said:

What are your room temps?
What is your humidity ?
How close are lights ?

Click to expand...

25 Celsius lights on and 15 lights off

At this point week 8 around 55 humidity

1 meter from canopy the 1000w DE.

too much temperature fluctuation, 15c is a bit cold, also a bit dry, try only dropping to 20c and 60-65 humidity

mexweed said:

too much temperature fluctuation, 15c is a bit cold, also a bit dry, try only dropping to 20c and 60-65 humidity

Click to expand...

Makes sense, but if it was temp and humidity related, then it would affect the whole crop at everything is from clone from same moms, had the same problems whole year in all conditions... :/

Never seen this before, last run was in different parts of same plant. I grew my strains for several years and they perform nicely when too hot or too cold, never like this, always smokeable product. This make your crop taste like shit.

regards.

Okey these are a couple veg plants wich are from the same mom, same age, same nutes same everything. Notice how they are different shaped, its pretty difficult to see, but you can notice mostly in the fan leaves.

Left is dudded, right is normal.

.

Dudded plant



Normal plant.

Dud



Normal plant



Regards.

Fakir710 said:

25 Celsius lights on and 15 lights off

Click to expand...

There’s your problem @ 15*C growth stops, your root zone is getting daily set backs

Are the good plants in the middle of the others?

Stable temperature in soil is really important

The dud plants look like they’ve been pushed along with the healthy ones

Bush Dr said:

There’s your problem @ 15*C growth stops, your root zone is getting daily set backs

Are the good plants in the middle of the others?

Stable temperature in soil is really important

The dud plants look like they’ve been pushed along with the healthy ones

Click to expand...

Thanks for your time and answer, i know what you mean, and i'm agree with you, but i had the same problems in summer, with extra heat, and in autumn and spring with normal temps. 15 C is the mins and they have been like this for the last 3 days because it was so cold, sorry i didn't explained it right, i'm not dialed btw. And the problem comes from before...

its nothing to due with temps or watering... toss everything ... stop bringing cuts in ... start over from seed..... I saw this shit a decade ago and everyone thought I was full of shit

BTW this is just the beginning of the tidal waves of issues that are stemming from everyone sharing cuts around the country and world now....chasing hype flavors thru bringing in new cuts will do u in every time...

Storm Shadow said:

its nothing to due with temps or watering... toss everything ... stop bringing cuts in ... start over from seed..... I saw this shit a decade ago and everyone thought I was full of shit

BTW this is just the beginning of the tidal waves of issues that are stemming from everyone sharing cuts around the country and world now....chasing hype flavors thru bringing in new cuts will do u in every time...

Click to expand...

Hey Storm Shadow, thanks for the answer. That's what i'm seeing and what the directions point at. Apparently it can be transfered to seeds, so even some carry it, i had a dud from seed a couple years ago...

I have a nice collection of mother plants and also very old stuff that looks infected... Thinking about quarantine them and start again from seed in other room, but i dont know if plants will get worse with time even replacing them monthly, also im aware of getting the infection to the new stuff i need to pop even keeping duds apart...

Regards.

Dudding is a virus also known as Hop Latent Viroid. Once you got it you cant do much. If you have genetics that you cant lose send cuts for meristem culture. People got lazy and did not quarantine incoming cuts, keep tools clean. Once you use your tools on an infected cut and do not clean it your passing it to every plant that touched that tool.

[youtubeif]W8B9Vp0anKE[/youtubeif]

Fakir710 said:

Hey Storm Shadow, thanks for the answer. That's what i'm seeing and what the directions point at. Apparently it can be transfered to seeds, so even some carry it, i had a dud from seed a couple years ago...

I have a nice collection of mother plants and also very old stuff that looks infected... Thinking about quarantine them and start again from seed in other room, but i dont know if plants will get worse with time even replacing them monthly, also im aware of getting the infection to the new stuff i need to pop even keeping duds apart...

Regards.

Click to expand...

Ive seen it pass from seed as well bro.... Mine came from a plant who was displaying symptoms... This was almost 10 years ago and haven't seen it since... its a nothing to play around with ...it spreads as easy as water drops hitting leaves and Bam...It's good you've become good at identifying it so easy now.. that's how u really start eliminating it from your rooms

I've harvested so many pounds of Hay because of this shit... I mean honestly you get more lit smoking pure Ditch Hemp... It changed my life forever and never looked at clones the same again.... to me everything is a walking petri dish full of problems... paranoia x10...Id take every visible enemy all at once over this issue...

Where Im at in SoCal....the Cuts are just str8 up nasty nasty nasty ....never worth it... seed game is where its anyways... if your looking for these Stupid Exotics everyone wants to throw their money at.....