Questions about Motors for Mid 20th Century Re-builds

I could have titled that "Questions about Motors for Sustainable Energy" but I think "Sustainable" is sometimes used to glamorize what is basically a re-spin of Mid 20th Century technology. Electric motors & alternators.

I just ordered an alternator for an 84 GM truck, which is a good example of the V-belt kind of alternator, and a good candidate for any "3000 rpm in, 14 volts out" type of projects.

I was looking for an alternator to, for example, pull some electricity off the creek. To make that work I need a paddle-wheel and a transmission to increase the paddle-wheel speed. The alternator I bought needs 3000 rpm to make it happy. A paddle-wheel ... 30 rpm maybe.

The alternator is about 70 Amps out, so it's a 1 kilowatt device (14 volts x 70 amps).

So that's all well and good except for, the creek is way down, no rain, on our way to a drought.

The creek doesn't have the elbow grease to spin the transmission that gives the alternator its 3000 rpm.

So that set me out looking for lower power devices. I called motorcycle dealers and asked about motorcycle alternators, but motorcycles mostly or all use stators and regulators. The stator is build into the engine. It's not something you can bolt down, attach a belt and some wires to.

There is this thing called a diesel mule, which I guess is about a 1/2 size car alternator.

https://www.discountstarterandalter...950-kaf-950-mule-2510-diesel-all-year-models/

That is 12 volts and 40 amps, 480 watts, so exactly 1/2 of the car size alternator.



Since there's a fair number of mechanical geniuses & cumulative mechanical know-how etc among IC Mag members, I figured this would be a good place to ask.

So I'm basically looking for an alternator that takes a little less elbow grease (power) than the Kawasaki diesel mule. Like a quarter-size or tenth size alternator.

Anybody know where to get one of them ?

Anything from 100 watts to 300 watts. 12 volts, 8 amps to 25 amps.

Some motors can perform a similar function, when you turn the gear by hand. You turn it, and it puts out a voltage and some current.

ANYTHING THAT WORKS

It doesn't even have to be DC. A drier motor can be very useful, you turn it and it puts out, I think, an AC voltage.

Since I'm looking for something that is 1/2 the size of a motorcycle motor alternator stator, I thought maybe there is some existing thing. Like an ATV part.

Something that if it works, I can buy a second one.


I asked one shop I buy motors from and they had about a 10 kilowatt 300 pound ferris wheel motor for sale.

Well 30A was pretty typical for many years. The Lucas 101 was 30 I think. It has a low moving mass. Easy to spin, but getting harder the more you ask of it. Perhaps you could look at a different method of voltage regulation. I think using permanent magnets fitted to the rotor is common, with a cheap power board aimed at 3 phase wind generators. Or you could just use a single phase, you don't have to use all 3.

Might be worth looking at you water wheel choice. If it won't turn a gearbox then you might be pissing in the wind

f-e said:

Well 30A was pretty typical for many years. The Lucas 101 was 30 I think. It has a low moving mass. Easy to spin, but getting harder the more you ask of it. Perhaps you could look at a different method of voltage regulation. I think using permanent magnets fitted to the rotor is common, with a cheap power board aimed at 3 phase wind generators. Or you could just use a single phase, you don't have to use all 3.

Might be worth looking at you water wheel choice. If it won't turn a gearbox then you might be pissing in the wind

Click to expand...

The creek isn't the only power source I'd like to hitch up. It's just an example that I thought people could relate to.

I also have about 100,000 pounds of wood to move down the hill on an old logging road. I wanted to build a cart to load the wood on.

A typical load there being 500 pounds.

That has enough power to move an automotive regulator, on the way down the hill.

The 2 main problems -
what do you use for a transmission ?
how do you deal with smaller power sources ?

The transmission is a whole different subject.

But the motor ... actually I found out about the mule, a 1/2 power car alternator basically, from a motor junkie/ afficionado.

Those motors/alternators/ generators that can be used as a 1/4 or 1/10 kilowatt generator - that's what I thought you guys would know about.

One possible example is the old DC generator we used to use for a bicycle light. The motor rubbed on the tire, and simply generated electricity for the light. No transmission !

Completely useless, but all I can think of is one of those little generators we used to put on the front wheel of our bikes to run a lamp so we could see on our bikes at night.

God I'm old.


After a little thinking (my brain hurts now), you could build your own "transmission" out of a couple sheaves and use an axle on the cart to power your alternator.

Hell with a few sheaves, you could spin that regulator alternator.

Use two different sized, keyed sheaves on a single axle to increase your output speed. A small and a large. Your large sheave is your "output', and the smaller is your "input", if that makes sense. Use two to 4 of those to increase the output to sufficient speed.

This website can help. Once you figure out what size sheaves to use, then you just need to assemble something to hold everything securely in place.

Think a generator is the right way to look for this. "Alternator" is too specific. Searched for 'generator for small water wheel' and all sorts of options came up.

GOT_BUD? said:

Completely useless, but all I can think of is one of those little generators we used to put on the front wheel of our bikes to run a lamp so we could see on our bikes at night.

God I'm old.


After a little thinking (my brain hurts now), you could build your own "transmission" out of a couple sheaves and use an axle on the cart to power your alternator.

Hell with a few sheaves, you could spin that regulator alternator.

Use two different sized, keyed sheaves on a single axle to increase your output speed.

Click to expand...

Are you English or Australian ?

Glad to learn a new word. Had to look it up. Americans usually call them pulleys.

I am definitely shopping for sheaves & pulleys.

I have one quality transmission. It's an antique 100 year old American made chain hoist in perfect condition.

The teeth of the gears are made to exactly match the chain.

It's labelled at 1000 pounds but I think it will do more.

You pull with about 20 pounds of force to get it lifting, so the gearing is very roughly 50 to 1.

St. Phatty said:

The creek isn't the only power source I'd like to hitch up. It's just an example that I thought people could relate to.

I also have about 100,000 pounds of wood to move down the hill on an old logging road. I wanted to build a cart to load the wood on.

A typical load there being 500 pounds.

That has enough power to move an automotive regulator, on the way down the hill.

The 2 main problems -
what do you use for a transmission ?
how do you deal with smaller power sources ?

The transmission is a whole different subject.

But the motor ... actually I found out about the mule, a 1/2 power car alternator basically, from a motor junkie/ afficionado.

Those motors/alternators/ generators that can be used as a 1/4 or 1/10 kilowatt generator - that's what I thought you guys would know about.

One possible example is the old DC generator we used to use for a bicycle light. The motor rubbed on the tire, and simply generated electricity for the light. No transmission !

Click to expand...

I'm red blooded 'Murican! I've spent the better part of my life arranging very heavy items over people's heads safely, in addition to electrocuting myself every now and then for the good of humanity.

A pulley is a sheave that already has an axle. The sheave is the round disc that the rope/belt lives in the groove of that is a part of the pulley. Small technicality, but the grammar nazi as well as the former head rigger in me knows the difference. And now you do too.

I used to use a sled, sort of like in the picture.

I could put 400 pounds of wood or dirt on it and it would mostly slide across the leaves.

Worked good on snow & ice, never had a problem.

THEN ONE DAY ... I put a few bags of dirt on it. Some absolute PREMIUM soil from a creek bed filled with Madrone tree parts.

The sled was sitting on dry Madrone leaves.

Which it turns out, are more slippery than snow & ice sometimes.

Soon it was a 2 piece sled, and getting that soil downhill involved a lot more dragging than sliding.

Now I have piles of wood dotting the hillside. About all I can do in the short term is wire them together & try and get them off the ground.