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Old 08-16-2016, 11:42 PM #1
slownickel
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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

A great video to watch. Personally, I agree a bit more with Albrecht and Tiedjens.... closer to 85% Ca.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-aO...e_gdata_player
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:45 PM #2
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The Hefty brothers do a real good job in that video.
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:29 PM #3
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At 85% ca what percentages do you like to see the other base cations at?
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:04 AM #4
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GHands,

The idea of managing an annual (cannabis) is to start with high calcium and in a form that we know the plant has a chance to pick it up.

This number 85% Ca has to vary on the basis of the medium/soil that you are in. The problem is that the mix, even if it is a specific one like Coots, will always be different chemically depending where you are. This is because compost, manure and worm castings will vary chemically greatly depending on the geography and chemistry of where it came from. If you are in a soil in an area with high K, no P and lots of iron and no manganese, the organic material, whether manure, compost or worm castings, will have a chemical profile in very near proportions, high K, little P, lots of iron and no manganese.

If the soil is very sandy and has a low CEC, 85% Ca will be too much Ca. The number will be closer to 80-82% Ca, needing more K and more Mg. The Mg will make the sand drain less and hold both more water and build up more fertilizers. This would call for a 10-12% Mg and 6 to 8% K. This CEC would probably range from say 4 to 12 meq..

In a soil or mixed medium (no one I have seen so far runs a real medium) where there is a large donation of charges coming from the organic material, say 14 and above, one would start pushing Ca a little higher, 82-84%, 8-10% Mg, 5 to 6% K. If the soil has a charge of 20 meq and above, that is a soil that will respond better to more airspace and need to maintained open, 85-87% Ca or even more., 7-8% Mg, 4 to 5% K.

Note that I am not mentioning Na. I want the least possible. When folks say they get better results adding Na, they needed more K. Not Na.

This would be to start your crop and get a great root system. Once the plant has established well, only maintenance applications of K, Mg and Ca will need to be applied. At the end, to beef things up a bit, I would then push more potassium, not much, but more at the end to bulk up. You never want to have a K deficiency, ever. But with high enough Ca, you will have so many roots, that K uptake is not an issue, even when borderline low, say 3 or 4%.

If one looks at the guys from Nectar of the Gods, their line relies on calcium, all the way to the end.

As well, they are running a 2-5-2 relationship for NPK and adding back lots of Ca and P on a constant basis. No one is pushing K above P at the Oregan Nectar company and folks rave about their results. It isn't the foo foo in their line, they are using amino acids, good seaweed, etc.. but it is the high P constantly that makes that line so good along with constant Ca. It is the attention to running more K than P along with Ca constantly that is setting them apart.

That idea will only work well where P is not already dominating K, but from everything I have seen so far, everyone has high K compared to their P.
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Old 08-21-2016, 04:38 AM #5
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So put me down for super stoner move...somehow I erased the email. Can you resend it or give me the info here? I blame redthumb's kush.

And I am in for a pot first and then we will see. I got an indoor down for about a month so I should have time for the analysis and amending. I will get something off to Spectrum Monday.
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:29 PM #6
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https://www.growersmineral.com/about is Tiedjens old company right.

From about us...

The three main points of the Growers Program are:

1.provide a good growing medium by insuring adequate calcium in the soil


2.supply necessary nutrients to the plant by applying balanced high quality soluble plant nutrients at the correct time


3.and put in comparison plots and yield check to verify profitable results.

So is "making room for" about leaving stuff other than Ca on the low side so you can add those soluble nutrients...kinda like using Pro Mix in a greenhouse? It is the one concept I am still fuzzy on after talking
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Old 08-21-2016, 10:39 PM #7
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Click image for larger version

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So lets take the KQ mix as an example. Obviously it is low on Ca and I get it is probably lower than that on an AA 8.2 mix. There is definitely Ca in there that has not released yet.

In your method I should have added a bunch of available Ca at the start of the yr...is that correct. Maybe CaNO3 early and gypsum a little later?

I get the concept of starting the plant with enough Ca. And over the years as the Ca is made available to the cec sites I will probably need less.

Maybe even some gypsum right now that they are setting buds?
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Old 08-21-2016, 11:16 PM #8
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Not my crop, but the first couple of weeks of switch, I would push calcium. Then I would bring K up. I would also be pushing P at this time in general
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:42 PM #9
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Awesome thread Slownickel. Tagged. You even have Milky (aka jidoka) changing labs and concepts. Impressed.
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:46 PM #10
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The video says:

Cal 65-80
Mg 12-25
k 4-8
Na less than 1%
hydrogen less than 10%

I have been taught the Mg is way too high here, and the Na less than 1% is strange to me also.

Your thoughts?
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