help with starting indoor then moving outdoor

general_war · Dec 16, 2017

hello everybody, long time lurker here, also growing outdoors for the last 7 years. NO experience indoor.
that's where the problem lies. in the last two years, my seedlings got f***** by low temps, even though placed in pots in a greenhouse. they died. 100%.

so, for the coming season i'm planning to make a growroom, just for starting the seedlings until late may or so. i'm looking for a setup for 25 pots (15x15x20cm) - that means i have to provide light for approx 0,6 - 0,7 m2.

my questions are:
1. one 250W mh vs. multiple (10-12, even more?) 20W cfls (6500k), equally distributed?
2. in late may, i get approx. 15 hours of daylight (16 hours between civil twilights). what light cycle should i grow them on? 18/6, 16/8, 15/9, so they dont star flowering early when moved out?
3. when should i start them (especially if i have to use 15/9 cycle)? a month /two months prior to moving them out?

Please help, i don't want to just browse growing forums all summer because my girls got killed again :watchplant:

BOMBAYCAT · Dec 16, 2017

I normally start my seeds (600 watt HPS) in late March indoors, then move them outside in late May. This gives me a chance to presex before they go outside. The plants also get a chance for vegging that way and are a decent size before the bugs chew on them and etc. It takes up to 6 months to get a run that way. I am doing a quick run now (fall/winter) to get some F2 seeds and go treasure hunting for Phenos. I am planning on this run to last 3-4 months in this climate as I live near the mountains so the growing season is shorter.

general_war · Dec 16, 2017

BOMBAYCAT said:
I normally start my seeds (600 watt HPS) in late March indoors, then move them outside in late May. This gives me a chance to presex before they go outside. The plants also get a chance for vegging that way and are a decent size before the bugs chew on them and etc. It takes up to 6 months to get a run that way. I am doing a quick run now (fall/winter) to get some F2 seeds and go treasure hunting for Phenos. I am planning on this run to last 3-4 months in this climate as I live near the mountains so the growing season is shorter.

what is your light cycle? i think it has to be more or less syncronised with daytime whe you put them outdoors.

thejact55 · Dec 16, 2017

I just veg 24 hrs light, then toss em out middle of may. I normally start march also. No issues, hermies or anything. Bombay cat is bang on in his comment too.
Id go with the 250, but hell add some extra lighting cfls, why not?
Once the plant is a foot or so tall and presexed you should be fine in most occasions.
Those T5 cfl panels work good for veg too. If your not flowering, that would work too. Bigger is better though

I dont worry one bit about syncing with outside light. Do all indoor growers mimic the outdoor light cycle? Rarely, only those with a dope timer/ballast. They go 24 hrs or 18/6, then boom 12/12 or less. Kinda the same concept. Ive never had a plant flower on me in may. If it was , it would simply reveg in june or july.

Edit- missed the amount of pots. for 25 pots, i personally think you need a 600 at least. Lets say you put them in one gallon pots. I can cram i think 16 pots in my 3x3 tent. You would need like a 4x4 coverage, a 250 isnt much light for that.

BOMBAYCAT · Dec 16, 2017

The light cycle is the standard 18 for vegging indoors. When I put them outside they might get a little confused because of the short daylight (try to go into flower) but they come out of it in a week or two and go back into veg the way they are supposed to with no problems. I have used the "daylight hours explorer" before. You need to know the Lat/Long of where your are growing and it gives the exact hours of daylight at a certain calendar date. You then try to match the outside hours of daylight by putting the plants outside a little bit later. It seems to work for me if I just put out the plants at the end of May. Another thing is the plants can actually get sunburn. I just shade them with a piece of board for a couple days to harden off. That URL I have for the daylight hours explorer doesn't work or I would pass it on. It is fun to play with.

~star~crash~ · Dec 16, 2017

BOMBAYCAT said:
I normally start my seeds (600 watt HPS) in late March indoors, then move them outside in late May. This gives me a chance to presex before they go outside. The plants also get a chance for vegging that way and are a decent size before the bugs chew on them and etc. It takes up to 6 months to get a run that way. I am doing a quick run now (fall/winter) to get some F2 seeds and go treasure hunting for Phenos. I am planning on this run to last 3-4 months in this climate as I live near the mountains so the growing season is shorter.

Hey Bombay :tiphat:

what is your method for pre-sexing your crop? ...peace

general_war · Dec 16, 2017

thejact55 said:
Edit- missed the amount of pots. for 25 pots, i personally think you need a 600 at least. Lets say you put them in one gallon pots. I can cram i think 16 pots in my 3x3 tent. You would need like a 4x4 coverage, a 250 isnt much light for that.

ok, thanks. i don't think i'll bother with a 600w. i thought i could veg them under a 250, but 600 is a whole other level, especially since i have no experience.
although i think if you put the pots in 5 rows with 5 pots each, one next to another, you get 2,5 x 2,5 square feet, (since pots are 6 x 6 inch). do they have to have space between them? i think in one month under a 250w mh with a couple of cfls thrown in, they won't get too big.

general_war · Dec 16, 2017

BOMBAYCAT said:
The light cycle is the standard 18 for vegging indoors. When I put them outside they might get a little confused because of the short daylight (try to go into flower) but they come out of it in a week or two and go back into veg the way they are supposed to with no problems. I have used the "daylight hours explorer" before. You need to know the Lat/Long of where your are growing and it gives the exact hours of daylight at a certain calendar date. You then try to match the outside hours of daylight by putting the plants outside a little bit later. It seems to work for me if I just put out the plants at the end of May. Another thing is the plants can actually get sunburn. I just shade them with a piece of board for a couple days to harden off. That URL I have for the daylight hours explorer doesn't work or I would pass it on. It is fun to play with.

thanks. i know you'd have to strenghten the plants before putting them outdoors.

i think this kind of online programme is usually called sun calculator or something like that

thejact55 · Dec 17, 2017

general_war said:
ok, thanks. i don't think i'll bother with a 600w. i thought i could veg them under a 250, but 600 is a whole other level, especially since i have no experience.
although i think if you put the pots in 5 rows with 5 pots each, one next to another, you get 2,5 x 2,5 square feet, (since pots are 6 x 6 inch). do they have to have space between them? i think in one month under a 250w mh with a couple of cfls thrown in, they won't get too big.

Theyll be fine, especially with cfls to supplement. If for some reason the 250 doesnt cover the area well, they could be somewhat stetchy due to lack of light. The sunlight through summer months might help, but they might be lanky when first put outdoors. No space is needed between pots really for temporary veg. Pack em in.

Fyi- presexing occurs naturally no matter what light cycle. When they are mature enough to flower they will throw a little ball and be male or pistils meaning female. No method here really.

~star~crash~ · Dec 17, 2017

you cant hold a crop long enough in small containers for them to pre sex naturally ... it takes way too long ...we need seedlings sexed is what i'm asking about ...peace

general_war · Dec 17, 2017

~star~crash~ said:
you cant hold a crop long enough in small containers for them to pre sex naturally ... it takes way too long ...we need seedlings sexed is what i'm asking about ...peace

isn't it enough if you take ''clones'', put them in a cup of water and put them under 12/12? i've only read about it, but that seems the most widely used method. it should be enough for them to show sex, they don't even need to be rooted

~star~crash~ · Dec 17, 2017

^^^that is one method i'm familiar with ...what about 12/12 the seedlings till they show & then revert them to veg? has anyone actually ever done this with good results? peace

general_war · Dec 17, 2017

~star~crash~ said:
^^^that is one method i'm familiar with ...what about 12/12 the seedlings till they show & then revert them to veg? has anyone actually ever done this with good results? peace

as i've been told, that method is not advisable, since the plants have to reveg - a process which doesn't merit them in any way and can harm/stress them up to the point where hermies occur

thejact55 · Dec 18, 2017

I think youd save like one week, maybe two going 12/12 from seed versus letting them naturally show. Strain obviously has something to do with this. Going 12/12 with a pure sativa is advisable as it is used to naturally being at 12/12, to control height and getting them to sex. An indica 12/12 from seed is gonna show sex in like 3 weeks, or 4 to 5 naturally.

ChaosCatalunya · Dec 18, 2017

Contrary to previous posters, I can tell you that here in N Spain plants vegged indoors under 18H, let alone 24h light will trigger into flowering when put out in 14.5/15h spring light, and it really compromises them, so don't do it.

Also, carefully introduce indoor plants to sunlight, an extra hour or two at a time, over the course of a week, or the UV burns them

~star~crash~ · Dec 18, 2017

this is a good topic ... i had a problem last year getting a crop sexed before it went into the ground (not trying to hijack the thread either) it takes way too long for them to sex naturally and keeping them in containers is a PITA ...i don't want to plant undetermined plants and then have take care of them untill they reveal themselves...what do the experienced growers do??? is there an easier way ??

ChaosCatalunya · Dec 19, 2017

take a labelled cut off asap and put it into flower

or, simply...only run Fem plants..

~star~crash~ · Dec 19, 2017

i'll take labled cuts from unsexed plants and force them ...i guess that's the only way to do it in quantities ...or fem seed ^^^ , but that's not what i have on hand

ChaosCatalunya · Mar 4, 2018

You can now buy a tester kit that will tell you which seedlings are Males..

~star~crash~ · Mar 4, 2018

hey Chaos ...good morning from the east coast! what information do you have? peace

help with starting indoor then moving outdoor

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