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How to make shatter/amber glass

Daub Marley

Daub Marley

Member
Like you said the terpenes are volatile and very difficult to retain while still effectively purging your solvent. You will lose more terpenes and flavors by winterizing but its the price we pay to make it easy to handle. I honestly believe that as soon as you hit the trichome with a solvent you lose a majority of your terpenes anyway, but that is another discussion. I would say just focus on getting rid of your solvent as it's much more important than saving terpenes.
CaliGabe said:
In reading your post it seems the waxes, removed through winterizing, play a big role in the 'softness' of the material either directly through their characteristics or less likely their hygroscopic tendencies? Can't see waxes being hygroscopic lol.
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Bingo. I don't know why it is exactly that the wax does this, but it does. My best guess is that both THC-A and the waxes are polar and love to mingle but the wax is amorphic (no structure) while the THC-A has a crystalline structure and the wax molecules are impeding the ability for the THC-A molecules to form a lattice with each other, but again it is just an educated guess.

CaliGabe said:
Another thing with shatter might the best thing be something like nitrogen purging, vacuum packaging and storing in a cold enviro be best for long term viability?
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Absolutely! Nitrogen and cold storage will greatly improve your ability to store it for a long time with minimal chemical degradation.
 
C

CaliGabe

Daub Marley said:
I honestly believe that as soon as you hit the trichome with a solvent you lose a majority of your terpenes anyway, but that is another discussion. I would say just focus on getting rid of your solvent as it's much more important than saving terpenes.
Click to expand...
That makes total sense. I'm just a fragrance/flavor whore :biggrin:
 
C

CaliGabe

Daub Marley said:
Like you said the terpenes are volatile and very difficult to retain while still effectively purging your solvent.
Click to expand...
In thinking about this more wondering if there is a way to capture those terpenes during processing. I did spend a decent amount of time dealing with essential oils in the health food industry and they do have value. Very powerful anti viral/fungal/bacterial agents. I could only see this being practical when facilities are processing large volumes of material for concentration. I was thinking about doing a little experimentation with fresh canna flowers and some essential oil extraction. Thx for the response...helpful.
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
Zombie

Zombie

Hello everyone.

I apologize if this is redundant but I have been reading a LOT on this the past few weeks and I can't seem to resolve one primary question I have.

With butane extraction, I have seen individuals suggest what appears to me to be a QWET process to further process/purify the finished product.

Doesn't this in effect suggest that the Butane stage could be eliminated, altogether, and the work just start straight away with the QWET?
It occurs to me that maybe this is to eliminate the bulk before the QWET process but then, doesn't it still essentially eliminate the inherent danger and added cost of using the Butane, anyway?

Thank you for accommodating what I feel has already been asked, somewhere! ;)
 
Gray Wolf

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
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Veteran
OG_TGR said:
Hello everyone.

I apologize if this is redundant but I have been reading a LOT on this the past few weeks and I can't seem to resolve one primary question I have.

With butane extraction, I have seen individuals suggest what appears to me to be a QWET process to further process/purify the finished product.

Doesn't this in effect suggest that the Butane stage could be eliminated, altogether, and the work just start straight away with the QWET?
It occurs to me that maybe this is to eliminate the bulk before the QWET process but then, doesn't it still essentially eliminate the inherent danger and added cost of using the Butane, anyway?

Thank you for accommodating what I feel has already been asked, somewhere! ;)
Click to expand...

There are certainly brothers and sisters who prefer QWET, and would agree with you.

Both QWET extraction and winterizing a non polar extraction with ethanol to remove non polar plant waxes, ends up removing a high percentage of the monoterpenes, when the alcohol is removed.

Winterizing works, but is old technology. Better to extract both at subzero temperatures, so that the plant waxes are not extracted in the first place, or to inline dewax them.

You can retain the monoterpenes purging the butane, far easier than purging ethanol, for a tastier, more aromatic concentrate.
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
Gray Wolf said:
You can retain the monoterpenes purging the butane, far easier than purging ethanol, for a tastier, more aromatic concentrate.
Click to expand...

Thank you for getting back to my question so quickly.

Interesting concept. So I gather that this implies that through vacuum purging, the butane can be even more thoroughly extracted than the Ethanol, presumably so much more so as to offset what seems to be a higher potential exposure to detrimental elements in the reagent itself?

I just have this impression that ethanol has the potential to contain far less adulterants, but maybe that is just me succumbing the the marketing juggernaut that is the Ethanol-for-human-consumption industry! ;)

I feel very fortunate to have this communication with you in particular, as your name or work in these areas is omnipresent in any relevant search.

Thank you, sir!
 
O

OG_TGR

Member
Would it be possible to make a "mold" for a pour method? Or is is possible to reform/combine pieces of shatter without damaging the chemical composition of it?

Seems it would be very beneficial to be able to pour into a mold and be left with more consistent/uniform "units".
 
J

Jurred

New member
Ever since I got my vac I've produced nothing but shatter or sappy near shatter. I've run good weed, old weed, new weed, bad weed trim, all shatter or shattery sap. Blast through 4 coffee filters, warm water bath till no reaction, scrape and vac at ~105-109 till no reaction flipping a few times. (usually takes 24-48+ hr in vac.)
 
R

Rotel

Member
I've had dry ice / etoh winterized patties wax up in late stage vac purge, due to what I believe to extreme terpene content.
 
S

stevewinthrop

Member
So I am about to run my first batch of BHO using a shatter vac to purge. Should I or should I not winterize before purging in the vac? Seems like some people think it tastes worse and some people feel it keeps more terpenes. I've never winterized before and have only blasted and heat purged before. Never wound up with shatter, more like a super thick sap, was hoping the vacuum chamber would help me get it to a glass like consistency without having to winterize.
 
A

Aidsmoney

New member
Sounds like you and I are in the same boat, Stevewinthrop. I'm in CA, where 190 proof Everclear is not available. I have a patient in TX sending me some this weekend. For the time being, I'm using 91% Isopropyl to winterize. We can assume that the other 9% is H2O, which is going to be a bear to evaporate. But you, like me, might as well experiment. My first run turned out dark and sappy. I vacuumed my slab for 2+ days at -29.5ish (analog dial) at 100 F, turning it twice. It stopped bubbling but it still looks as bad as it did when I put it in the oven. What I've deducted is this: I did not use high enough temps ( I have 2 grams of that run in the oven, as I'm typing this, and it is bubbling at 110 F) and I poured too thick, causing N-tane to get trapped in my slab. I have 2 grams winterizing in 100mL of the 91% Isopropyl (It's at 24 hours, and I can clearly see the lipids coagulating). However, the winterization isn't done yet. I can still see ribbons/streams of lipids throughout the liquid. From what I've read and I've been told, the majority of those fats should settle at the bottom of the mason jar (the deep freeze is around -9 F, the mason jar seems to be holding at 13 F). Gray Wolf mentioned that winterization is an archaic method, while inline dewaxing is the more efficient method. I don't know what you are using for your apparatus. Closed loop or tubes?
 
S

stevewinthrop

Member
Tubes bro, the closed loop stuff just too pricey for a little solo med grower like me. I have heard that a gentle heat around 120 is good while purging in the vacuum, i'm just not sure how long to do it, I don't want to make wax.
 
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