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Legalization is not even close to what they said it would be, they lied. Vote no!

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
They said it would be grand but they lied.
I am glad to see some conversation about this issue, I am not seeing much talk about the reality of what has actually happened, vs what all the proponents said would/not happen. I would like to share my personal experience since California passage of Prop 64.

“”Legalization” will eliminate & reduce crimes (minimize harm), & prevent people from going to jail.”-
Wrong! While it’s now legal to carry an ounce and grow a 6 plants per owned,(not rented dwelling, with owners permission) residence, cops are busting more people than ever for everything from, operating business with out a license, possession of over an ounce, concretes, growing to many plants, or growing in the wrong place, for driving, “under influence,” & for public toking, (good luck finding a place to use anywhere in public).

“”Legalization” will effectively end the War on Drugs”-
It has actually created new groups/kind of “criminals.” Some advocates have the idea, we should never reject ANY measure that moves us forward toward ANY type of marijuana legalization, at any cost! The idea that some recreational legalization, may actually be not worth losing medical rights over, is considered, “Purist” & “ Idealistic” by some. Tell that to the people who now find themselves, ”Criminalized” by “Legalization”!

“It will protect medical marijuana patients rights”.-
Some counties have placed growing restrictions & bans that make it illegal to even grow medical marijuana outside! Requiring patients additional $ for lighting, increasing utility costs, cost of purchasing licenses, greenhouses, etc. The state appears to be following Washington & Oregon move, to merge Recreational & Medical into one, that we have seen would result in eliminating more medical patients rights!

“Will not create “monopolies”-
Prop 64 specifically prohibits licenses for large growers (over 22,000 square feet)until 2020. This law was written for, and by, big corporations, who have ensured the high costs involved in becoming licensed, during the 5 year period, will guarantee most small & medium-size growers are forced out of business by then. Leaving the playing field wide open for “Big Corporate Marijuana.” This is not about supporting mom-and-pop growers or stores; it’s about, in the words of one “Ganjapreneur,” creating “the Wal-Marts of Marijuana.”

The law also allows for vertical integration. The five year cap is supposed to help small business survive, but the law will also allow enormous corporations to also vertically integrate. So Monsanto is just as free to create, produce & test each stage of their own product in five years!

“Will lead to lower prices and put an end to the black market.” -
Nothing could be further than the truth. The combination of over taxation & regulation is creating a perfect storm that drastically increases the, “Black Market.”
Many patients have had the cost of their medication double since first of the year! There is a bottle neck in permits, testing and licensing that will likely get even worse as the year goes on. People attempting to go legitimate, are now being targeted in some areas. Patients with higher than average medical needs, who can’t grow enough to get through the entire year, can no longer afford to purchase their medication in bulk from dispensaries. Many patients are being forced to choose, whether to loose a significant amount of their medication to taxation, or turning to frightening options like Craig’s List, ********* or Facebook!

“”Legalization” will protect consumers with safety tests, standardize dosage and labeling of cannabis.” -
Prop 64 does not require that cultivators send their product to independent or 3rd party testing or, “distributors”. They have arbitrary restrictions on edibles dosing, possession limits, that doesn’t consider diverse patients medical needs. There’s no specific protocol for how labs will gather samples from growers to perform state-required testing. It actually weakened the MMRSA testing requirements! This is clearly NOT a priority of, “Legalization”.

“Will allow for worry free home grows” -This is NOT the case! Prop 64 Allowed local cities & counties to set local growing & use restrictions. This has created many, “Dry” areas. As of this writing, one in seven California cities allow recreational marijuana stores!

“It will legitimize marijuana”
it’s still easier & cheaper to buy alcohol & tobacco than medical marijuana! “Legalization” has not addressed the issue of workplace drug testing, doesn’t even allow medical patients to use it at work or school. This was written to benefit a few fortune groups & individuals, not the patients or recreational users! Where the hell are all these legitimate places to use it? We would be foolish to ignore what has happened in Washington & Oregon since they have, Legalized Recreational Marijuana. The sales tax is now as extreme & Washington citizens can no longer even home-grow!

“Will Create more Jobs”-
Medical Marijuana was already creating jobs. This is killing people’s jobs & life’s work. Issues of workplace drug testing, banking, exportation, etc. have not been addressed by, “Legalization” and will continue to be problematic for the foreseeable future. It appears most small & medium sized family business /Growers, will be wiped out in entire regions of the state. While allowing, “Big business” with big $$, to buy up acres of failed agricultural business land in Central Valley.

WTF are we going to do about it is my question? I think we need a new generation of marijuana activism, post Legalization! To continue to fight for the medical rights, recreational legalization advocates are so willing to give away. Why aren’t more people out there, talking about these issues?
I ask the same question:
Why aren’t more people out there, talking about these issues?
 

soil margin

Active member
Veteran
They said it would be grand but they lied.

I ask the same question:
Why aren’t more people out there, talking about these issues?

Because the huge majority of people out there don't know any of the specifics about the cannabis industry. It's a tiny minority of people who are really involved/educated on the details of it. I also think the huge majority of people just don't care about rights/freedoms of cannabis users and cannabis entrepreneurs. They think if there is any legal route to purchase it then everything is fine and dandy. Nuances are too complex and time consuming for the average person.


Frankly I'm not even really interested in talking about how much the system sucks, I acknowledge that it sucks and that I have no power to change it. What I am interested in talking about is potential avenues for circumventing shitty laws and regulation. Ideas like cannabis churches and co-ops. Weed farmers markets. Community supported agriculture for cannabis. Etc. Finding loopholes and ways to get around the challenges that "legalization" has brought.
 

ion

Active member
if it's tied to the us guv in any form, it's tainted.

'it' being whatever/anything/everything

drug wars aint over, they just got a facelift
 
No one is talking about it because anyone who cares still has their old connections. Unless you're an idiot like me who moved acrossed the country just assuming I'd be able to find somone who understands why my weed is worth more than 100/oz.

99.9% of people who smoke pot don't give a shit about anything you do. Just how it is
 

Sticky Sat

Active member
Man will be man... That's why I'm always high...
Expecting anything good from politicians is only exposing ourselves to deception.
I'd rather discover new strains or crosses... ;-)
 

brendon420

Member
my take is

the govt will continue to push the boundaries of that which the citizens do not hold them against.

but cannabis is like alcohol.you take that away, thems fightin words.

i do not take the average american for a revolutionary
but we have been talking about the opioid crisis,
and alcohol is nothing new, many families bare the scares

you cannot put the endocannbanoid genie back in the bottle
the knowledge is spreading...
my 86 year old granda wont be quiet about how neat dope is.

so my stoned rant will conclude this way... i will do my part, to spread the information you have presented here....i have heard whispers of this from my more outspoken friends.

over grow the government
 

EasyGoing

Member
As somebody who has spent hundreds of hours in a city and county hall this year..... Stoners are very hard to motivate. As my local personal medical rights are being taken away, NOBODY shows up to the meetings. It is hopeless. I guess people are too stoned to care, till it's too late.
 

St. Phatty

Active member
Just harvested the rest of my winter plants.

So I don't have to depend on "Official Legal" cannabis dispensaries when I'm waiting for the summer crop to finish.

One too many follow the Shylock business model.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
As somebody who has spent hundreds of hours in a city and county hall this year..... Stoners are very hard to motivate. As my local personal medical rights are being taken away, NOBODY shows up to the meetings. It is hopeless. I guess people are too stoned to care, till it's too late.

Recall living in CO in 2014 and the election between Gardner and Tom Udall, who basically favored cannabis.

"Gardner and Udall were asked about pot this week in their final debate.

“I opposed it when it happened,” Gardner said of the 2012 marijuana vote. “But the founders always intended the states to be laboratories of democracy, and right now we are deep in the heart of the laboratory.”

Udall agreed. “We need to work together as a delegation to make sure the federal government butts out and lets us continue this experiment,” Udall said at the Denver debate."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/marijuana-playing-bigger-role-colorado-races

Gardner wasn't in favor.

He's with the Flip/Flop leader, Trump, so it's going to be interesting how this plays out.
 

ion

Active member
new drug war example;

ive been offered a gig as a consultant on a hemp/cdb grow, i know nothing about the current state of hemp so i start my research. this is basically growing female plants like you would for buds, large with high quality right? i figure i can do that with the right genetic.

during my research i come across an article about GW pharma and their new epilepsy drug based on cbd thats nearing fda approval. if/when that approval goes through, and there's no opposition to it, cbd will de classified as a drug and yer gonna need to shell out a five-digit buy-in$$ to get your cbd project pushed thru the anals of the fda. in other words, you cant market your cbd product, even if cbd is legal federally, as a supplement or homeopathic or anything because it has been classified as a drug by the fda.

i may be off on my assessment, but i think it's on. all available online.

hot and cold wars are the extreme wings of the always existent economical war that is full-on right under the surface.
 

EasyGoing

Member
Recall living in CO in 2014 and the election between Gardner and Tom Udall, who basically favored cannabis.

"Gardner and Udall were asked about pot this week in their final debate.

“I opposed it when it happened,” Gardner said of the 2012 marijuana vote. “But the founders always intended the states to be laboratories of democracy, and right now we are deep in the heart of the laboratory.”

Udall agreed. “We need to work together as a delegation to make sure the federal government butts out and lets us continue this experiment,” Udall said at the Denver debate."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/marijuana-playing-bigger-role-colorado-races

Gardner wasn't in favor.

He's with the Flip/Flop leader, Trump, so it's going to be interesting how this plays out.

Read my signature.......
 

mowood3479

Active member
Veteran
new drug war example;

ive been offered a gig as a consultant on a hemp/cdb grow, i know nothing about the current state of hemp so i start my research. this is basically growing female plants like you would for buds, large with high quality right? i figure i can do that with the right genetic.

during my research i come across an article about GW pharma and their new epilepsy drug based on cbd thats nearing fda approval. if/when that approval goes through, and there's no opposition to it, cbd will de classified as a drug and yer gonna need to shell out a five-digit buy-in$$ to get your cbd project pushed thru the anals of the fda. in other words, you cant market your cbd product, even if cbd is legal federally, as a supplement or homeopathic or anything because it has been classified as a drug by the fda.

i may be off on my assessment, but i think it's on. all available online.

hot and cold wars are the extreme wings of the always existent economical war that is full-on right under the surface.


Sadly, I don’t think ur wrong.
 

soil margin

Active member
Veteran
in other words, you cant market your cbd product, even if cbd is legal federally, as a supplement or homeopathic or anything because it has been classified as a drug by the fda.

It's not the perfect solution but frankly I think this is a good thing. Allowing people to market CBD as a "supplement" or homeopathic remedy means they can make bullshit claims about their CBD products that aren't necessarily supported by science or facts. It damages the reputation of CBD and the credibility of those who prescribe/promote/sell it based on real evidence. I'm no fan of the FDA and I think too much regulation is a horrible thing, but allowing snake oil salesman freedom to run rampant isn't any better.
 

Easy7

Active member
Veteran
Public perception and opinion go a long way in a democracy regarding legality.

It would take some effort to get all the details for changes YOU DESIRE. Did you know it's only legal to brew 200 gallons of beer a year per person? That's about 2 beers a day. Of course people brew more and nobody is the wiser.

I see lot's of selfish opinions as would be expected ln a cannabis forum. I'd be happy to have much of anything, living in Ohio. Of course some logistics are difficult the way gardens are limited.

Do we really need 10,000 home growers that all sell out of their back door? Because that's what mmj was in cali. That's what people expect from legal cannabis. I understand not wanting to put your hard earned money into getting corporate fat cats rich. But we can't have a million bedroom and back yard growers all trying to make a living off cannabis.

Some legal framework is for consumer protection. Both alcohol and tobacco, or even over the counter meds, all have consumer protections. Cannabis isn't going to be treated like a supplement herb. Yes, even those the FDA wants under their authority.

Without federal laws there will be chaos and not a lot of respect for the cannabis industry. We are all sure that federal laws will favor corperations. If you want a voice for the little people, you must organize and be herd, respectfully. Bitching gets nothing done.

Legal cannabis isn't just for anarchist hippies.
 

Easy7

Active member
Veteran
Cannabis isn't even legal yet. When it's federally legal, it's going to be machine grown. States that grow nothing but corn and soy, are going to have a lot more produced than micro-farm states.

People won't care either. Those that do, will have a niche market to choose from. Your average wino or beer drinking drinks cheap stuff. Cause they aren't rich and have a high consumption habit. So they are more budget minded than going for something higher end. It's what gets the job done.

I understand your concerns. You've invested life into something illegal, that's slowly and painfully becoming legal. There just won't be much money as when it was illegal, in cannabis.

Big differences between growing cannabis, and farming cannabis. Laws passed by people that are experts in social control and not at all cannabis. Paid for by the rich, that want to get richer.

It won't be like any other industry.
 

Easy7

Active member
Veteran
As much as there is a push to legalize, there will be opponents. They'll look into and promote all the 'harmful' changes cannabis will do. There would be a lot of industry that wants sober workers, drug testing. Lot's of industry that makes money off cannabis being illegal. Mom's that hate the devils lettuce, grannies up in arms.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
Cannabis isn't even legal yet. When it's federally legal, it's going to be machine grown. Well your not as in touch as you think you are it is already in Canada.States that grow nothing but corn and soy, are going to have a lot more produced than micro-farm states. And this is good for the consumer how??
You see you are saying the same things I see as negatives like they are a positive thing??

People won't care either. you think you speak for the people?
I don't think the people want this.Those that do, will have a niche market to choose from.
Not if that is eliminated like is currently being done in Canada. Your average wino or beer drinking drinks cheap stuff. Cause they aren't rich and have a high consumption habit. So they are more budget minded than going for something higher end. It's what gets the job done.
Yea, but dude mid-grade don't get the job done like top shelf so you see it is not the same thing.

I understand your concerns. You've invested life into something illegal, that's slowly and painfully becoming legal. There just won't be much money as when it was illegal, in cannabis.
Really you think you know me, how presuptuous and full of yourself you are.:biggrin:

It would seem acording to you a good legalization plan will include machine grown weed, packaged by machine and sent out through the mail.
Customers recieve swag and are not happy but will accept crap weed cause it is the only game in town.
Cant buy good seed, cause you have to buy them from the government stock of low grade genetics.
Cant even grow enough to self suppiy due to plant count or total restriction.

Well I just described current legalization in Canada.
The govenment sees tax dollars, this is not for the people at all.
 

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