"what the hell are those things?!"

Fresh Start · Mar 27, 2009

It all started when I fed my guano tea to my plant one fine afternoon, which requires me to water until a run off appears. Then I saw them..

These little white almost microscopic maggot looking bugs in the water. just floating around and twitching about. I thought that maybe the bugs were small flies that were there becuase I had left some run off water in the bottom tray since the last feeding.

Now I fed her today and the little fuckers are everywhere in the soil! shit. crawling and multiplying! I knew this wasn't going to be easy..

Its alright. i have a plan. Rather, an oil. And its called neem. i got it at my local health foods store and i hope it makes my lady healthy and eradicates those bastards. I would just like to know if any one here can identify the description i have given as a certain bug. It would help me treat my Mum plant better. thanks guys! :fsu:

Homegrow3r · Mar 27, 2009

They sound like a nematode, possibly blackfly larvae? Any chance you could get a pic?
Do you have any flys in the room? Stick up some sticky yellow pads to tell, I can't remember the name of them.

Core · Mar 27, 2009

springtails ..check my link

Blunted22 · Mar 27, 2009

if they aint spring tails they may be symphilids

Symphilids
Small pests that are tan to white colored and look like centipedes. They are very deadly to the plants, because they burrow down into the roots and damage them by feeding of them. Your plants leaves will begin to die off. They are found mostly in soil composites that have not been cleaned, like soil that has additives in them such as animal manure.
(I know it will smell funny but sterilizing the soil in the oven for 30 min can kill any pests in the soil, heat to 350 for 30 min.) They are easy to tell if you have them, because they come to the top soil when your plant is being watered, if you find you do have them, use Fungus Gnat Killer (“B.T." a non chemical,biological control) in the powdered form. One application should kill it, just to be safe repeat every 7 days to kill off the larvae. Tobacco juice kills them as well! And nematodes.

ive had them for over a year still trying to kill them they are deadly you better hope for springtails.....

Fresh Start · Mar 27, 2009

I saw another post on here. They are spring tails! They jump, and voraciously move in the water! Looking for organic solutions. does'nt look like neem will help me out.

Deft · Mar 28, 2009

You sure they are not mosquito larvae or another fly larvae? Fly larvae like fungus gnats can be easy to manage till you can clean the grow space for real and get rid of contaminated stuff.

Fresh Start · Mar 28, 2009

getting home on sunday

getting home on sunday

I don't think so. they are every where in the soil. Not really sure how they got there but, they are also in my house plants.. I talked some one about fungus gnats and once I told him that I can see the spring tails in the water that I flush out of the plant then he said that they were not fungus gnats. Besides that, they can jump in the water and out of the soil very efficiently. Which fits the description of spring tails.

Any how, I'm coming up with a recipe to kill them organically with neem oil, rosemary oil, cinnamon oil, clove oil, and some biodegradeable soaps. Going to flush it with that solution when I get home on sunday. Till then, please keep posting any knowledge you might have on these little guys. THanks -fresh

N707 · Mar 28, 2009

Fresh Start said:
It all started when I fed my guano tea to my plant one fine afternoon, which requires me to water until a run off appears. Then I saw them..

These little white almost microscopic maggot looking bugs in the water. just floating around and twitching about. I thought that maybe the bugs were small flies that were there becuase I had left some run off water in the bottom tray since the last feeding.

Now I fed her today and the little fuckers are everywhere in the soil! shit. crawling and multiplying! I knew this wasn't going to be easy..

Its alright. i have a plan. Rather, an oil. And its called neem. i got it at my local health foods store and i hope it makes my lady healthy and eradicates those bastards. I would just like to know if any one here can identify the description i have given as a certain bug. It would help me treat my Mum plant better. thanks guys!

Make sure they arent springtails....its almost comical how many take drastic measures to kill off beneficial critters.
Heres some shots of them...hope you figure out what they are before you try to erradicate them.
http://attra.ncat.org/images/suelos/colembola.gif
another good pic
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.cann/articles/pics/springtails2.jpg
When you blow on them they will twitch and can jump. They congregate in the soil just under the surface and on it. I cant count how many people from this hppby, to dartfrogs and other critter keepers take unesassary measures for these. They help breakdown organics and are good for your soil, they also consume fungus and all sorts of baddies. Good luck bro.

tenotoge · Mar 28, 2009

invite the chatroom crowd over - I'm sure even the bugs will leave.
There's always Cayenne if you haven't already tried that, sounds like u have. COld kills bugs....

Core · Mar 28, 2009

N707 said:
Make sure they arent springtails....its almost comical how many take drastic measures to kill off beneficial critters.
Heres some shots of them...hope you figure out what they are before you try to erradicate them.
http://attra.ncat.org/images/suelos/colembola.gif
another good pic
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.cann/articles/pics/springtails2.jpg
When you blow on them they will twitch and can jump. They congregate in the soil just under the surface and on it. I cant count how many people from this hppby, to dartfrogs and other critter keepers take unesassary measures for these. They help breakdown organics and are good for your soil, they also consume fungus and all sorts of baddies. Good luck bro.

may i ask if 'you' ever had them ? maybe not?......i woz just discussing it in my thread.....i 've had them for over a year now and they do harm my crop...they cause ph troubles and that results in a demize of crop....shure everone says that they are good for the soil...but maybe not for cannabis..ever come to think of that?...here's a small piece i found on the net....and i for one believe what i xp'd...not flaming just sharing ...

ohw and not to BS you ...i do find damages on leaves from time to time....and i did't encouter any other bug for like 5 or 6 grows.....

Springtails feed bacteria, fungi, lichens, algae and decaying vegetation. Some species feed on carrion, and a few carnivorous species eat other springtails and small invertebrates. In addition, some species feed on plant roots or on tender young plants, occasionally damaging potted or greenhouse plants. However, they are harmless to man and animals.

Fresh Start · Mar 29, 2009

No bugs are good bugs.

No bugs are good bugs.

There are many variables to growing cannabis. I don't need another one to understand amongst my existing equation.

I have a healthy soil going already. They might do good, but I'd rather not have them. They eat bacteria, so I'm guessing that they also eat my beneficial ones also from the organic teas I brew. Which would explain my plant going through some minor discoloration. Oh,and they like cold tempertures.

If this operation fails to kill them. I'm going to have to isolate my mother plant outside, and destroy my house plants. :wallbash:

I have clones that need pest free space.

N707 · Mar 29, 2009

Core said:
may i ask if 'you' ever had them ? maybe not?......i woz just discussing it in my thread.....i 've had them for over a year now and they do harm my crop...they cause ph troubles and that results in a demize of crop....shure everone says that they are good for the soil...but maybe not for cannabis..ever come to think of that?...here's a small piece i found on the net....and i for one believe what i xp'd...not flaming just sharing ...

ohw and not to BS you ...i do find damages on leaves from time to time....and i did't encouter any other bug for like 5 or 6 grows.....

If your finding damage on leaves then it is definatley not from springtails, so that would be alot different.

Actually yes I do have them, I actually culture them in containers for my vivariums and baby critters as they really help them, a they are subsequently in all of my plants including my grows. They donot have the physical capability to harm plants, there mouth structure is wrong so you probably have other things going on there.

Just trying to help bro. You shouild read into thier physilogy and role in the enviorment, they are pretty cool at what they do.

PH swings are from soil chemistry reacting with variables such as your nutes, and instability of your sump, theres no way springtail have anythign to do with that.

I find it interesting how few people here take steps to achieve the proper DKH to help stabalise the ph in a sump or the water source. This is an aquarium trick but works equaly well in a res, simply a measurement of the waters ability to bufer against ph shifts. Keeping it in range even roughly makes a big difference.
Your far more likley to cause more damage than most bugs can by fliddleing with the system and trying to rid them completley,unless of course you have something really nasty. In which case simply killing them will leave your dank covered in dead bug corpses...mmmmmm I love smoking bug bodies.....lol. The microfauna in your soil is the basis for a healthy root system and reduced risk of an infestation of bad critters or illness, simply by keeping the plant less stressed let alone from direct benifits. A good balance can keep one type of invert from making a monoculture and throwing everything out of whack.

Sorry for the rant....happens @ night. Ild get a positive ID on the culprits before making choices...but thats just my opinion. Ive yet to hear much detailed info on here regaurding invertebrate identification and classification, a really good place to get consise info is from scientific forums specialising in inverts snd there are tons of them.

Core · Mar 29, 2009

i see we disagree....totally cool ...but you should't say i need to study them and read up on them.....i did for over a year, and still.....seems you missed the last quote that i posted....it came out of a university study....every time i've had them i had problems...and it ain't my nutes.....nor is it a other bug ...After 3 or 4 roombleaches and more stuff i did....
i even compiled a bug thread to recognise bugs faster....granted i can still learn things on that lvl, but not in this case ...

Fresh Start · Mar 29, 2009

N707 said:
I'd get a positive ID on the culprits before making choices...but thats just my opinion. Ive yet to hear much detailed info on here regaurding invertebrate identification and classification, a really good place to get consise info is from scientific forums specialising in inverts snd there are tons of them.

I've been reading about them. There are many species of springtails, some good, some bad. Some have mouth parts that are cabale of biting others don't. They are known for preying on seedlings and cuttings in nurserys, and are also responsible (in some species) to cause leaf damage.

I have no Idea what species I have. Nor do I care.

I would take a picture of them, but they are so tiny it's damn impossible with my digi camera. My biggest clue to what they are is from the way they move. In water they look like they are "jumping" in short bursts an inch at a time. When I first saw it happening, I was like " how the hell are they moving so fast?" It is difficult to identify them. I can't see any antennae or their tails. Again, they are fuckin tiny. Like larva tiny. But when they get on dry land, they crawl and make small jumps from here to there. Almost like a flea. Which is interesting that I make that description, because in australia they have become known mistakingly as fleas.

hypoaspis miles That is the name of the commercially available invertabrate that is used to control spring tails through bio-control. They also prey on fungus gnats! A dozen to every 12 dozen of pests is reccomended. Only thing is I don't know where the hell to get them ... yet.

If they were beneficial enough, people would reccomend that you manually place them in your grows. I never heard of that shit. :noway:

Not to be a naysayer...

I also can't understand why there isn't a thread about handling these guys. Hope I added helpful info. -Fresh

Core · Mar 29, 2009

i rest my case..... :joint:

Fresh Start · Mar 30, 2009

Eureka! Organicide!

Eureka! Organicide!

I believe I've created an organic insecticide using essential oils and Dr. Bronners soap. And it's effective on spring tails!

My recipe is as follows for an all organic DIY insecticide:
mix 3 drops of each into 1/2 gallon of water:
-Clove essentail
-cinnamon essential
-rosemary essential
Add 8 drops of Neem extract
Then add 1/2 ounce of Dr. Bronners eucalyptus soap to it all. Shake.

First damn thing i did when I got home was flush the Mum plant with plain water. After I saw that I had enough of the little bugs floating on top of the water I brought out the big guns. (the recipe noted above)

From here I collected a small sample of specimen and transplanted them into a small glass bowl with little water to conduct my study. I'd say 2 tbsp. of water including spring tails. When exposed in excess to the recipe the specimen reflected instant results. The vibrant "jumping" behavior had ceased and the specimen crunched into tiny balls. A few moments later, all movement had ceased. When compared to the control specimen in the flushed tray, the experiment specimen was a graveyard. (hence eureka)

I then applied a much more diluted version to the tray and the left over spring tails. The solution was half strength at eye ball figure. The following results were similar although not as dramatic as the first test. They had stopped moving almost instantly, but they did not curl into balls and twitch.

So. I have the weapon needed. But I'm at a point where I'm not sure how much to apply to my plant. I know it is all organic, but I can't help but fore-see some adverse reactions from my plant. Just to be safe, I have taken some more cuttings from her and added to my bubble cloner.

Any suggestions of use?
The base ratio of the recipe was taken from a foliar spray that was made of essential oils. I would rather drench the soil with organicide to be certain I've rid the plant of pests. I think that I'll use the solution on a few house plants as examples. -Fresh

N707 · Mar 31, 2009

Fresh Start said:
I've been reading about them. There are many species of springtails, some good, some bad. Some have mouth parts that are cabale of biting others don't. They are known for preying on seedlings and cuttings in nurserys, and are also responsible (in some species) to cause leaf damage.

I have no Idea what species I have. Nor do I care.

I would take a picture of them, but they are so tiny it's damn impossible with my digi camera. My biggest clue to what they are is from the way they move. In water they look like they are "jumping" in short bursts an inch at a time. When I first saw it happening, I was like " how the hell are they moving so fast?" It is difficult to identify them. I can't see any antennae or their tails. Again, they are fuckin tiny. Like larva tiny. But when they get on dry land, they crawl and make small jumps from here to there. Almost like a flea. Which is interesting that I make that description, because in australia they have become known mistakingly as fleas.

hypoaspis miles That is the name of the commercially available invertabrate that is used to control spring tails through bio-control. They also prey on fungus gnats! A dozen to every 12 dozen of pests is reccomended. Only thing is I don't know where the hell to get them ... yet.

If they were beneficial enough, people would reccomend that you manually place them in your grows. I never heard of that shit. Not to be a naysayer...

I also can't understand why there isn't a thread about handling these guys. Hope I added helpful info. -Fresh

The species I pointed out does not eat vascular plants bro, if you have a different species you can tell by visual id, that is why I supplied pictures. This is the type of crap that fuels the inability to properly id things. Im not saying thats totally wrong, but really....how can you highlight the fact that some are good and some are bad and nothing more? You dont need a microscope or flashy camera to tell the difference.
I see your point but its still offbase from mine, my op was to show the good ones, which are by FAR the most common.
I still day that without a proper id its iffy, but hey jmo.
I huess I should point out that the species I listed I do culture,
I dont have my camera but the container would make most peoples skin crawl...= ). And yes, I do seed my ops..all of them. They play a critical role in cleaning the substrate regaurdless of what it is. You certainly dont need them but I perfer them and other predatory mites over no inverts, in fear of a mono culture should something actually nasty come in. I look at it like the bacteria and fungi added to roots, similar in idea not actual role. I gotta get a pic of my cultures up...lol.

N707 · Mar 31, 2009

Core said:
i see we disagree....totally cool ...but you should't say i need to study them and read up on them.....i did for over a year, and still.....seems you missed the last quote that i posted....it came out of a university study....every time i've had them i had problems...and it ain't my nutes.....nor is it a other bug ...After 3 or 4 roombleaches and more stuff i did....
i even compiled a bug thread to recognise bugs faster....granted i can still learn things on that lvl, but not in this case ...

A bloom of microfauna of any kind is an indicator of somehting being off. I see the correlation, but unfortunatley that specific type I am reffereing to is not harmfull in any way to the plants leaves or parts, just cant be..unless theres a few freakish cult springs that only dine on plants...lol (again reffereing to the species to which i reffered). If they harmful or promoted negative things of any sort I would not use them in multiple tanks loaded with plants or my ops. If there are similar pests messing with the plants then hey, Im sure they can be id and properly delt with. Im not tyring to trod on anyones ideas, it just a perspective thing I guess...wrong id perhaps. Which ever it may be Im sure it will be killed before it is figured out, which isnt a bad thing again. Im definatley from my own wierd campo on this one out here....:wink: Which is okay, as most would rather just wipe out rather than sift through pics to the same end if they are bad...so yeah. I guess I need to write more clearly.

Fresh Start · Mar 31, 2009

further analysis required

further analysis required

N707 said:
I still say that without a proper id its iffy, but hey jmo.
I guess I should point out that the species I listed I do culture,
I don't have my camera but the container would make most peoples skin crawl...= ). And yes, I do seed my ops..all of them.

Alright. you got a container of them at home, then lets see it for a proper ID. And I would also like to see some of your plants with the species in the medium also. Not to be pushy with evidence but if they are a beneficial bug, then I would like to see why.

I'll post some of the deficiencies from my plant and we can figure out why that's happening also. The articles I've read about them say that they feed on bacteria and fungi. Which i have a problem with because hey, that's what I feed my plant! I specifically brew beneficial "micro herds" to provide nutrients. How do I know if the spring tails are not eating them all up?! I believe you when you say that they are aiding your plants, but I doubt you grow organic.

Either way I'm not ruling out your theory. Although I have administered the insecticide already. If I want them again I'll consult my Non-cannabis house plants which are also infected. So go get your pictures and I'll get mine.

We'll be able to compare how my plant is living with them now, and once they are gone also.

Fresh Start · Mar 31, 2009

My evidence

My evidence

here is what is happening to her fan leaves, and fan leaves only. (for some reason)

coincidentally, this started happening around the same time that I discovered the bugs.

http://icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=1608&pictureid=47155
http://icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=1608&pictureid=47157
http://icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=1608&pictureid=47156

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