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Old 11-14-2013, 05:50 AM #11
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I have suffered cannabinoid hyperemises. The people who don't think its possible just aren't consuming enough cannabinoids, or maybe they're less sensitive. It only happens when I'm consuming upwards of 3-4oz a month of 20%+ buds, or maybe I'm eating a lot of medibles in addition to my normal 2-3oz a month of bud consumption.

When I first started smoking... I would take too big of a hit and cough my head off. Now I take too big of a hit, and I have to run to the bathroom and puke. It could be my first smoke of the day, or later in the day. Doesn't matter. It has to do with plasma levels.

Everything in moderation.
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:06 PM #12
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i just thought i was having alergic reaction to high amounts of terps , it only happens when i do a huge dab, feels like im about to lose all bodily function and puke shit choke and die all at once, it take about 10 minutes to recover, but so worth it so i dont have to smoke a whole joint.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:21 PM #13
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For those who are feeling symptoms: did you try and smoke a placebo? Like spice or various herb mix you can found on the market. I really dont believe cannabinoids would lead to such symptoms.
i suspect its the smoke in general.
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:58 PM #14
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https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/si...rm+@DOCNO+7372

/SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS/ ... 13, including 2 fatal, poisoning cases due to neem seed (margosa) oil, a traditional remedy in India and Malaysia, /were reported/. Five to ten milliliters of the oil given orally to children against minor ailments caused vomiting, drowsiness, tachypnea with acidotic respiration, and polymorphonuclear leukocytosis, and encephalopathy developed within hours of ingestion. Seizures, associated with coma, developed in some cases. Autopsy demonstrated pronounced fatty acid infiltration of the liver and proximal renal tubules, with mitochondrial damage, and cerebral edema, changes consistent with Reye's syndrome.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:21 PM #15
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Great read RRomack!
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:19 PM #16
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Yes, Spice causes it to.

It is def the cannabinoids, not anything else.

Please people, doctors are not lying. There are tons of these cases popping up now.

Here is a study of SPICE users getting diagnosed with this. I personally had HORRIBLE stomach issues when i was blending hard (using Spice).

I have smoked pure JWH's, AM-2201 and the newer ones like 5F-PB22 and and EAM-2201. The shit gets you stoned as a motherfucker, but the accompanying stomache cramps, loss of appetite and throwing up repeatedly just ain't worth it.

They all fuck up your stomach.

The cannabinoids are hitting your CB1 & CB2 receptors in your body. You body has two documented cannabinoid receptors - CB1 and CB2. CB1 is mainly found in the brain. CB2 receptors are found mostly in the body, and they regulate the way the body deals with heat, immune response and digestion. Many, many CB2 receptors are actually found in the human gut.

When you use too much cannabinoids, any kind - they can hit both the the CB1 and CB2. Overstimulation of either can bring about serious body changes

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A Case of Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome Caused by Synthetic Cannabinoids

https://www.jem-journal.com/article/S...472-2/abstract

Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS) was initially described in 2004 and remains an under-recognized clinical entity that occurs in chronic heavy marijuana smokers.

Case Report
We describe the first report of CHS in an abuser of synthetic cannabinoids. CHS is thought to be caused by over-stimulation of the cannabinoid receptors.

The synthetic cannabinoids found in K2, Spice, and other commonly abused designer cannabinoids, including those used by our patient (JWH-018, JWH-073, JWH-122, AM-2201, and AM-694), are potent agonists of the cannabinoid 1 receptor.

Conclusion
Our report suggests that frequent habitual smoking of synthetic cannabinoids can cause cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome.


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And another:

Case studies of cannabinoid hyperemesis describe bouts of nausea, vomiting, pain

MONDAY, Oct. 22 (HealthDay News) -- The regular use of either natural or synthetic marijuana can lead to severe nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain, according to two sets of new case studies.

This little-known condition, called cannabinoid hyperemesis, is a serious burden to the health care system because doctors often use expensive diagnostic tests and ineffective treatments in an effort to identify the cause of the patient's symptoms and treat them, the researchers said.

One telltale sign that helps pinpoint these patients: Compulsive hot bathing or showering provides temporary symptom relief.

The case studies were scheduled for presentation Monday at an American College of Gastroenterology meeting in Las Vegas.

"Most health care providers are unaware of the link between marijuana use and these episodes of cyclic nausea and vomiting, so they are not asking about natural or synthetic cannabinoid use when a patient comes to the emergency room or their doctor's office with these symptoms," Dr. Ana Maria Crissien-Martinez, of Scripps Green Hospital and Clinic in San Diego, said in an American College of Gastroenterology news release.

Cannabinoid hyperemesis was first described in 2004 in a case series of nine patients in Australia. Since then, 14 case reports and four cases series on the condition have been published.

"Patients who use cannabis -- whether natural or in a synthetic form called 'Spice' -- also don't realize their unexplained episodes of cyclic nausea and vomiting may be a result of this use, with some increasing their cannabis use because they may think it will help alleviate their symptoms -- and it actually makes them worse," Crissien-Martinez said. "The only resolution is cannabis cessation."

Crissien-Martinez co-authored a case report describing nine patients with cannabinoid hyperemesis treated at Scripps Green Hospital. The patients' average age was 30, and 88 percent of them used marijuana daily. In 80 percent of the patients, their symptoms disappeared when they stopped using marijuana.

Crissien-Martinez and her colleagues also looked at the cost of cannabinoid hyperemesis.

"We estimate $10,000 to be the minimum cost of one admission -- but on average our patients required admission to the hospital 2.8 times, a total of almost $30,000 for workup," she said.

That price does not include the added costs of primary care physician and/or gastroenterologist visits (2.5 on average) and emergency room visits (six on average).

The other case study may be the first reported case of cannabinoid hyperemesis caused by synthetic marijuana. It involved a 22-year-old man with a 10-month history of symptoms. He has been symptom-free since he stopped using synthetic marijuana.
Because this study was presented at a medical meeting, the data and conclusions should be viewed as preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal.

https://consumer.healthday.com/genera...em-669802.html

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And another:

Marijuana use may cause severe cyclic nausea, vomiting, a little-known, but costly effect

Effect researchers suggest is a serious burden to the health care system

Las Vegas, NV (October 22, 2012) – Marijuana use—both natural and synthetic—may cause cannabinoid hyperemesis (CH) a little-known but costly effect that researchers suggest is a serious burden to the health care system as it often leads to expensive diagnostic tests and ineffective treatments in an effort to find the cause of a patient's symptoms and provide relief, according to two separate case reports unveiled today at the American College of Gastroenterology's (ACG) 77th Annual Scientific meeting in Las Vegas. Cannabinoid hyperemesis is characterized by a history of chronic cannabis use followed by a cyclic pattern of nausea, vomiting and colicky abdominal pain. Interestingly, compulsive hot baths or showers temporarily relieve symptoms, another characteristic which aids clinicians in diagnosis.

"Patients who use cannabis whether natural or in synthetic form called 'Spice' also don't realize their unexplained episodes of cyclic nausea and vomiting may be a result of this use, with some increasing their cannabis use because they may think it will help alleviate their symptoms—and it actually makes them worse," said Dr. Crissien-Martinez . "The only resolution is cannabis cessation."

Dr. Crissien-Martinez co-authored the case report, "Marijuana: Anti-Emetic or Pro-Emetic" which described a series of 9 patients with cannabinoid hyperemesis at Scripps Green Hospital with average age at diagnosis 30 years-old; 88 percent male; onset of cannabis use during teen years; 88 percent used cannabis daily; 56 percent compulsive bathing behavior; and 80 percent symptom resolution with cannabis cessation.

The other case report, "Spicing Up the Differential for Cyclic Vomiting: A Case of Synthetic-Cannabinoid Induced Hyperemesis Syndrome (CHS)," may be the first reported case of CH attributed to synthetic cannabinoid, according to Fong-Kuei Cheng, M.D. and his research team from Walter Reed Walter Reed National Military Medical Center/Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, MD.

"Legal synthetic cannabinoids became available in the United States by 2009 with widespread usage among military personnel due to its ability to elude standard drug testing. It is important to recognize that routine urine drug testing does not include JWH-018 and JWH 073, which are the primary components in synthetic cannabinoids," said Dr. Cheng.

The case report described a 22-year active duty military male who was admitted with a 10-month history of progressive, intermittent abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, with episodes occurring every two months and lasting up to a week. He underwent several diagnostic tests before a urine synthetic cannabinoid test confirmed the diagnosis of cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS). Since discontinuing these drugs, the patient has remained symptom-free, according to the case report.

"This case illustrates that CHS should be in the differential diagnosis of unexplained, episodic abdominal pain with nausea and vomiting, particularly if relieved with compulsive hot showers. Recognition of this syndrome is important to prevent unnecessary testing and to reduce health care expenditures," said Dr. Cheng. "We have also noted, particularly in the active duty population where drug testing for cannabis usage is done routinely, that there appears to be an increased usage instead of the synthetic cannabinoids, so we would advocate routine additional testing for them when the clinical suspicion is high."

Patients frequently have multiple hospital, clinic and emergency room visits with extensive negative work-up to include imaging studies, endoscopies, and laboratory testing before they are finally diagnosed with cannabinoid hyperemesis, according to the researchers of both case reports.

"We estimate $10,000 to be the minimum cost of one admission—but on average our patients required admission to the hospital 2.8 times, a total of almost $30,000 for workup," said Dr. Crissien-Martinez, who added that that cost does not include the added costs of primary care physician and/or gastroenterologist and emergency room visits, which averaged 2.5 and 6 times respectively.

Dr. Crissien-Martinez said that 80 percent of the Scripps Green patients who stopped cannabis experienced symptom resolution; however, only one of them remained abstinent and consequently symptom-free.

"As health care providers, we must be aware of the potential side effects of chronic cannabis use and understand that cannabinoid hyperemesis is diagnosed clinically to avoid expensive diagnostic and therapeutic modalities," said Dr. Crissien-Martinez. "Instead the focus should be shifted towards counseling and resources allocated towards marijuana cessation."

About the American College of Gastroenterology

Founded in 1932, the American College of Gastroenterology (ACG) is an organization with an international membership of more than 12,000 individuals from 80 countries. The College is committed to serving the clinically oriented digestive disease specialist through its emphasis on scholarly practice, teaching and research. The mission of the College is to serve the evolving needs of physicians in the delivery of high quality, scientifically sound, humanistic, ethical, and cost-effective health care to gastroenterology patients. www.gi.org View releases on other research breaking at the ACG meeting at https://gi.org/media/press-releases-f...tific-meeting/

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-mum101912.php


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The reason I mention this is because on another forum I am on (A Spice forum) people are having these symptoms and their doctors have diagnosed them with this, so i figured i would ask here on a pot forum.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:34 PM #17
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Originally Posted by justanotherbozo View Post
...i'm near 60 years old and i've been a daily, heavyish smoker since 1969 and i've smoked up with a LOT of stoners over the years and from one coast of America to another, and i've never known ANYONE who suffered from this 'syndrome'.



peace, bozo

Same here...on all except I waited till 1972

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Old 11-14-2013, 09:04 PM #18
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I can also speak from some level of experience. I grow organically with no pesticides including aza. Recently I've been running low so I went to the local dispensary to re supply. After dealing with stomach cramps for a few days I decided to go back to using my own meds and the symptoms immediately disappeared. I use a vaporizer for carefully titrated doses, so over consumption couldn't be a possibility.

I've never used synthetic cannabinoids, so can't offer any input in that area. Although I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, maybe it's possible that Azadirachtin is being used in the manufacturing process to make cannabis appear harmful. You never know these days.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:32 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RulaTone View Post
For those who are feeling symptoms: did you try and smoke a placebo? Like spice or various herb mix you can found on the market. I really dont believe cannabinoids would lead to such symptoms.
i suspect its the smoke in general.
Is that your professional medical opinion?

No, I've never smoked spice, I have no desire to smoke a synthetic drug when I have all the cannabis I can smoke.

I have taken pharmacology and received an A in the course...

What I know is that drugs can have effects opposite their intended effect. Emesis= vomit hyperemesis= excessive vomit. Vomiting is a natural defense against things that are toxic to the body. Cannabis is an anti-emetic, but if you suppress the receptors to excess, the body recognizes this as something toxic and tries to eliminate it from the body. This is an instance of an anti-emetic becoming an emetic.

The same thing can happen with nasal decongestants. Use them, and they can help clear you up. Abuse them, and your congestion problem can and probably will become worse.

I would assume that any drugs that act on the same receptors as cannabis could cause hyperemesis as well... If not sooner, because since they are synthetic compounds they may be more difficult to metabolize and have a longer half life... or maybe not. IDK, cause I don't smoke that stuff.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:10 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
Is that your professional medical opinion?

No, I've never smoked spice, I have no desire to smoke a synthetic drug when I have all the cannabis I can smoke.

I have taken pharmacology and received an A in the course...

What I know is that drugs can have effects opposite their intended effect. Emesis= vomit hyperemesis= excessive vomit. Vomiting is a natural defense against things that are toxic to the body. Cannabis is an anti-emetic, but if you suppress the receptors to excess, the body recognizes this as something toxic and tries to eliminate it from the body. This is an instance of an anti-emetic becoming an emetic.

The same thing can happen with nasal decongestants. Use them, and they can help clear you up. Abuse them, and your congestion problem can and probably will become worse.

I would assume that any drugs that act on the same receptors as cannabis could cause hyperemesis as well... If not sooner, because since they are synthetic compounds they may be more difficult to metabolize and have a longer half life... or maybe not. IDK, cause I don't smoke that stuff.

No, that's not my professional medical opinion. Where did i state that i am a doctor?
I'm here to learn and i am happy that this forum is visited by doctos like you.
I totally respect those who talk with knowledge of the causes and an academic formation.

Back to topic...
I really like this topic cause it touches experiences i had, but wich i never examinated under this knowledge.

I always stated everywhere on this site when i am talking of medical cannabis that i am not a doctor, and i didnt intend to get people to smoke something they dont want.

First of all...very important thing: i have speaking barriers cause i am italian so excuse me for my mispeaking.
When i said "spice" i meant a TOTAL PLACEBO. if you read i wrote placebo initially, then i wrote "spice" just to get me understood, but i used a wrong word.

I did not meant syntetic drugs at all!!! sorry but here we say "spice" for an herb that is not meant to smoke and does you nothing at all. a spezia!

Since you are a doctor you know that placebos do NOTHING. Absolutely nothing and are heavily used in test studys. Thats what i intended in first istance:
i just asked if those who feel those symptoms, had tried and smoked a placebo, or something wich doesnt contains cannabinoids to see if symptoms manifest anyway or in different ways.
But i asked that just to know deeper, not to convince people doing bad things like smokin synthetic drugs or even worse synthetic cannabinoids.
Sorry if you felt offended, but i am mile away from that world.
ANd i am happy you have all the weed you need!

Anyway thank you for having let me understand how CANNABINOIDS and not just smoke can interfere with our health causin hyperemesis.

And thanks Thomas Paine for havin started the thread
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