The death of "strains"

coldcanna · Jan 16, 2017

I picked up a copy of Marijuana Venture at the book store the other day and was thumbing through and came across the letter from the editor. He hypothesized that the way strains have been named up until now is going to go away in the future. Here is the premise:

He interviewed a grower who grew 30 strains. Some of them didn't sell so well but Blue Dream was crushing it. So from them on he simply sold all of his crop to the dispensaries as Blue Dream. According to him, nobody from either the dispensary or their customers ever complained or even mentioned it.

There are already dispensaries who instead of giving their products names they classify them by the type of high, like ; energize, sleepy time, peacefull, ect......

Now the way I see it this has some decent footing. With the black market roots of our game we could never really test or trademark products so it all came down to a cool name and street cred for quality. I wonder if now the wide spread use of terpene and thc testing we will move something closer to the wine or beer model... Like the "Merlot" of dope is associated with a dominance of select terpenes and each breeder presents his "version" of merlot, that would be done by breeding for terps. Its kind of interesting to think about and I think there will be serious changes in the next 10 years.

So what do you guys think? Are you for or against? Maybe your in a state where your already seeing this? My state just went legal and I am curious what type of business models are going to come from it.

soserthc1 · Jan 16, 2017

possible in some stores

But we still smoke marlboros and drink Budweiser
Names are catchy and cool

FireIn.TheSky · Jan 16, 2017

They still separate vegetable varieties by specific names.

Like brandy wine, and beef steak, they don't just lump them all together as fat and reds.

By this model it would be like stinky, stinkier, sweet, sweetish stinky etc..

I think people are trying to make MJ into something it's not.

I see this show on TV called bong appetit where they cook weed into everything and I think that is just the stupidest thing ever.

Weed generally doesn't taste good in its vegetable form.
And it's like why can you just smoke or vape before ot after you eat why do u need a steak that gets u high.

Wendull C. · Jan 16, 2017

People who do that are unscrupulous and dishonest.

If your buyer at a dispensary can't tell blue dream from other cultivars, they need to fire that fucker.

oldchuck · Jan 16, 2017

I have stopped paying any attention to the seed shop advertising. I consider the so called "strain" descriptions to be total BS. We go through a lot of trial and error picking seeds mostly due to the chaotic and deceptive efforts of so called breeders. I don't have that problem buying tomato seeds and hopefully Cannabis seeds will become more legitimate with increasing legalization.

This does not mean we will be forced to buy patented or GMO seeds. Consider the difference between "heirloom" varieties of corn or tomatoes and "hybrid" or GM varieties which are patent protected for limited periods of time. Heirloom varieties are also different than "landraces." What I want ultimately is the development of heirloom varieties, fairly consistent with some history but not corporate controlled. This would be just like any other seed choice on the market today. It will take a while but the BS in the seed market will stop I think.

baduy · Jan 16, 2017

Well Merlot is a strain (cépage).
The wine market still use the names of the old strains, if a given wine is a blend the strains used are specified on the tag. Merlot, Gamay, Cabernet,Sylvaner etc all those are strains in the first place.
I can't see a reason why it should happen different with mj, customers just have to learn what matches their taste,that's how it goes.

MJPassion · Jan 16, 2017

There are no strains, per say, to begin with!

A strain is considerd such because the variety is strained, via breeding programs, to produce a particular set of traits from plant to plant to plant... They're stabilized, if you will.

What we have today is a genetic mess where nothing in particular is locked down. Every trait in every modern variety shows variation to some degree.

I guess, in the end, you could say that we have to produce a few STRAINS before they could die out...

A partucular plant (clone) is refered to as a cultivar...
A seed line is a variety...
A worked to stabilization seed line is a strain.

Aota1 · Jan 16, 2017

As a buyer for a dispensary I can say that I use correct cultivar/strain names. Afaik. We actually have had Merlot flower and cartridges. Along with a thousand other varieties. We've had blue widow which also goes as berry white. I will just put the strains two parents if theres nothing else. I am in my position not only to run the store but to bridge the gap between plant and everyday average consumer. Right now i have a white widow X master g. I am starting to see more places put more generalized descriptions on say a line of cartridges but some of that is due to mixing material. Bigger operations that are more focused on mass production /profit i can see doing funny things with naming and such but I'll hold tight to my dissemination of the herb i get and keep our place among the customers that care.

coldcanna · Jan 16, 2017

I guess maybe I can tweak my original thought. What I see in our current breeding world is a mess and doesn't really always follow typical breeding of say vegetables. There are many great breeders out there I am not taking away from that, its more that for every 1 of them there's 10 pollen chuckers who sell minimally worked lines by attaching things like cookies, og, diesel, kush, or glue to whatever the name is.

I think for the most part we can agree that there are a select amount of classic strains that are truely unique and form the basis for many spinoffs, and in some cases these spinoffs turn out to be new winners. But if we could define what general terp profile creates the "classic OG" for example then one could sift through the hundreds of things labeled OG. And then to market a truelly new innovative line that you have created you could use the same analysis to truelly show how yours is different.

And just to clarify I'm not condoning the grower in the original post, quite the opposite. But in this case, establishing some standard baseline would actually prevent this from happening.

oldchuck · Jan 16, 2017

What you are calling a "classic strain" (if it actually existed) would be called what all the other kinds of seeds I buy are, that is an Heirloom Variety. I'm not scientist enough to know for sure but I have the idea the Cannabis is such a genetically diverse species that narrowing it down to heirloom status is very difficult. Landrace, yes, but a true landrace retains genetic diversity.

VonBudí · Jan 16, 2017

growers can be as due diligent as they want. Fancy packaging and marketing teams will shit on them all day.

canopy-growth-corp-cve-cgc-snoop-dogg-otcmkts-twmjf1-581x358.jpg

Betterhaff · Jan 16, 2017

Well an heirloom would be something that’s traits are locked and breeds true time after time. I don’t know if this is even possible from seed with drug cannabis because of its diversity. Look at skunk #1, it’s probably one of the most inbred varieties but it still throws variation in phenotype. Maybe with laws being relaxed things will change breeding wise.

MAHA KALA · Jan 16, 2017

growers are responsible for this mess. not educated enough. if i would be breeder of original work and i would see that growers are buying og kush from dinafem or destroyer from dutch passion. i wouldnt sell single seed of my work

why do growers support such parasites? these companies have huge profit from selling seeds, yet they haven't developed anything new..

Easy7 · Jan 16, 2017

Pass a clone around to a thousand growers, and there will still be the 1%. Strain always equals quality? Answer is no. Different set up, soil, hydro, spectrums of light and climate. Genetics are half of the recipe, environment is the other half. Cannabis is most unique with how she manifests in different environments. Still helps when buying seeds. I think as things legalize over time, different regions will stand out as will growers. Some growers always have their own signature style. No matter the strain or variety.

mtntrogger · Jan 16, 2017

Interesting stuff here

DoobieDuck · Jan 16, 2017

MJPassion said:
...breeding programs, to produce a particular set of traits from plant to plant to plant... They're stabilized, if you will.

What we have today is a genetic mess where nothing in particular is locked down. ....

Refreshing to see your post MJP. I feel similar to you and am in the process of growing out a variety touted as a new exciting "Red" variety. It's images unlike anything I had ever seen. From a breeder many call reputable. Sold thru a popular seed bank. It sold out fast and was getting top dollar for its seed.

The problem being-I've grown out several plants now and not one appears anything like the variety I was sold. My Bad..as I should have done more research first.

As well what I am seeing more and more of is the use of the same images by these seed retailers for different varieties. I've even had seed banks offer to purchase my images only to have me decline when finding out how they plan on using them.

Breeders should be stabilizing first and the product should consistently represent the images and descriptions given. I realize the inbreeding issue and throwing of different phenotypes but that's what stabilization is for. To eliminate that and develop something truly new one could give a new name and call a new variety.

The Jackson Perkins Roses people must be laughing their asses off at this proliferation of genetics. Their products have to meet strict restrictions and uniformity before even being released publicly..

I thought the problem lied only with the peeps wanting to cash in on this exploding still growing seed market. The pollen chuckers having no regard for stabilization only a greed for cash. Yet I'm now seeing breeders of all walks coming out with new varieties left and right. I'm going to do a thread on this "Red" soon. Respect...DD

EmeraldWizard · Jan 17, 2017

Potential

Potential

I see this new market in legalization (we can always push for and hope for De-scheduling) as a good thing, people are not stupid, just they come across that way in groups, or to others, for a lack of effort in explaining, rightfully so they shouldn't need to anyway.

there will be the profit hungry ones that make a quick buck from pollen chucking and clever marketing and "cool" pics and packaging.

But there is much more opportunity for transparency (when fully legal everywhere) One can simply list in addition to their strain name, other traits, like lights and growing medium, time allowed to flower, also able to list the cannabinoid and terpene profiles, all on a card with it, a Quality marketing plan for a Skilled grower.

Giving the profit mongering big business its own niche, wich will be from those who only want a "high" and the Quality minded a solid footing in the true essence and culture of cannabis and it's supporters, The entire movement will shun the big agro biz side, but only if it's planned and well thought out.

Big business will try and you'll have to let them, you can't be unfair to them, They have spent years doing this their way and finding new ways to make a buck. But you can be better, and the only thing they have to fear is that they will lose in the long run (imo the big pharma industry has kept it illegal for many reasons including this)

I have not been a grower, but love researching it, plan on doing it, and always have been a supporter of the cannabis movement, and I do love all the support for the plant here on icmag, it really keeps one going on those tough days when you run out, just my three cents worth

Tynehead Tom · Jan 17, 2017

oldchuck said:
I have stopped paying any attention to the seed shop advertising. I consider the so called "strain" descriptions to be total BS. We go through a lot of trial and error picking seeds mostly due to the chaotic and deceptive efforts of so called breeders. I don't have that problem buying tomato seeds and hopefully Cannabis seeds will become more legitimate with increasing legalization.

This does not mean we will be forced to buy patented or GMO seeds. Consider the difference between "heirloom" varieties of corn or tomatoes and "hybrid" or GM varieties which are patent protected for limited periods of time. Heirloom varieties are also different than "landraces." What I want ultimately is the development of heirloom varieties, fairly consistent with some history but not corporate controlled. This would be just like any other seed choice on the market today. It will take a while but the BS in the seed market will stop I think.

I think the way i feel about this topic is more or less in line with your comment here.

MAHA KALA · Jan 17, 2017

areocrafter said:
stronger strains, survival of the highest

theory of survival applied on breeding, i love when some genius is able to combine economic theory(dictate of market) with theory of evolution to apply it on vegetables, vegetables need fascism too

now back to practical breeding

Dropped Cat · Jan 18, 2017

My goal is stabilized terpene reproduction, THC will
follow the profile, THC has no scent.

I'm doing my tests with a limited number of selected plants,
and will be happy with 70% fixed with the finish cross from the
parents.

We'll see.

The death of "strains"

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