Got a short path unit from BVV...... now what?

Been a while since I've been around, but had to come back and pick the communities brain again


I'm getting a short path unit today so that's most excellent....but I really have no idea how to use it.

I've watched a few videos that kind of go over the basics but nothing has really touched on the specific aspects of stuff like temperatures, what kind of effect I'm looking for, what each substance being fractioned is etc.


Are there any resources for one of these bad boys si I can learn ho to use it without destroying good bho

Summit Research has some good info and shares publicly, but the arrogance!! Crude attacks on GW's 'family' doesn't indicate much intelligence in my frame of reference.

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/2017/01/13/attacks-on-instagram/

BigJohnny said:

Been a while since I've been around, but had to come back and pick the communities brain again

Are there any resources for one of these bad boys si I can learn how to use it without destroying good bho

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If you have good BHO, any further distillation is going to ruin it no matter how you run it through that apparatus. I thought that short path existed just for low grade materials or to reclaim contaminated oils.

That summit research page is one of the most painful reads ever. Half of it is complete garbage.

prune said:

If you have good BHO, any further distillation is going to ruin it no matter how you run it through that apparatus. I thought that short path existed just for low grade materials or to reclaim contaminated oils.

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This is poor information. Most "good" BHO is not decarboxylated, so it is mostly THCa. Distillate should be mostly delta-9-thc if you haven't put it through isomerization or seriously degraded it. Isomerization could yield quantities of delta-8-THC, which you should be able to isolate in the distillation as well.

Short path distillation in this industry exists to ensure a product that has no volatiles (aka most solvents we use) and no psycho-inactive components like lipids and chlorophyll. There are far more than these few compounds in cannabis, but these are the real selling points. Flavor can be reintroduced or not. It is active for oral doses as well as ready to be dabbed. Super smooth/potent alone, and one of the best additives to a flavorful dab.

Not all contaminated oils end up clean after even the finest of distillations. Certain pesticides and molds might be those cases. I know some people are putting time and money into that research specifically, and even having consistent success with certain pesticides (I haven't seen recorded results and details, but claims are to removing pesticides with boiling points under 204 C). But this is assuming full knowledge of the sketchy ingredients, which isn't the case for many of today's processors.

Has anyone had success in delta-8 isolation, beyond an oopsie-daisy kind of batch that likely perplexed the shit out of whatever testing facility, full of undergraduate stoners?

I read some Summit stuff today. It's like the soundtrack to a nerd angrily masturbating to sadomasochistic fantasies until he bleeds. I dunno. There are some good bits of information, he isn't TOTALLY full of shit.

But it's strange to me when someone in that postition can say things along the lines of "I can't believe there are people who call themselves extractors and don't know this basic knowledges if you don't know what Im saying you should go get a day job and some coffee. This is improper use and if you are doing this you are ruining everything it is not salvageable and I can't really explain the exact physiks as to why but you know if you just observe it happen and listen to what Im saying itll make sense its so obvius."

^That's really not a stretch of imaginary truth. Like, three people down the line in an actually honorable game of "telephone." Hehe...

Check the clear thread !ann

Rickys bong said:

That summit research page is one of the most painful reads ever. Half of it is complete garbage.

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I just read a bunch of their stuff, and not only do I not have a clue wtf they're talking about (not because I'm an idiot) but they're just saying some weird shit and acting like they invented marijuana.


Where I'm lost here for the most part is basically what to do now.

I load up the flask with some purged bho/shatter......and then what?

Start heating? Pulling a vac? ok cool, how hot, how long, how deep of a vacuum?

Not many instructions or videos around it would seem and the stuff that I've found isn't really touching on those subjects.

mrkushpants said:

Check the clear thread !ann

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will do

You winterize it first, that's Summit's claim to fame, pre-distillation filtering equipment and supplies,

http://summit-research.tech/product-category/filtration/

http://summit-research.tech/product-category/media/

EK had almost convinced me to sell my shit off. In a lot of regards, he's a dick, but he's a dick because he wants people to really think. He definitely has some personality quirks, and opinions, but he's not always wrong either. I've never met anyone so passionate about trademarking their work, or the enforcement of patent infringement!

Do this basically
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6OyNB8V7Hc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6HHuzfadw

Packing the distillation column with something like stainless steel wool or glass wool (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS- ESPECIALLY GLASS WOOL) at the vigereuxs or right at the upper thermometer inlet seems like a good way to create natural rates of reflux/rejection, as opposed to the potential R&D designs from companies still trying to figure out the math behind what is happening.

Is the column holding vigereuxs bent near the thermometer inlet or does it just hit a sharp angle with the condenser? Just curious.. From a theoretical and ideal viewpoint, a bend is best.

Old Gold said:

Do this basically
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6OyNB8V7Hc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6HHuzfadw

Packing the distillation column with something like stainless steel wool or glass wool (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS- ESPECIALLY GLASS WOOL) at the vigereuxs or right at the upper thermometer inlet seems like a good way to create natural rates of reflux/rejection, as opposed to the potential R&D designs from companies still trying to figure out the math behind what is happening.

Is the column holding vigereuxs bent near the thermometer inlet or does it just hit a sharp angle with the condenser? Just curious.. From a theoretical and ideal viewpoint, a bend is best.

Click to expand...

It seems BVV is now shipping their units with a bent vigereux that looks pretty close to summits design, and not what I've seen in other videos.



I don't think I'll be winterizing anything I'm putting into this unit.

it also came with glycol to use as a cooling agent for the chiller, but I'm hesitant to use that as everyone seems to just use water or something.

BigJohnny said:

It seems BVV is now shipping their units with a bent vigereux that looks pretty close to summits design, and not what I've seen in other videos.



I don't think I'll be winterizing anything I'm putting into this unit.

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If you don't winterize prior to short path you will end up with shit. If you aren't winterizing you have no business even thinking about making distillate.

Finally .............. IMO distillate exists only to appease the cosmetic culture. It looks pretty but tastes like what Vodka tastes to a fine Bourbon or Scotch enthusiast.

People have been "smoking" flower for how long now ..... with all the fats, lipids, seeds, stems, bird shit, chemicals and who knows what else .... and who died because of it? But as of 2016 that's now unacceptable ? LOL ..........

BigJohnny said:

It seems BVV is now shipping their units with a bent vigereux that looks pretty close to summits design, and not what I've seen in other videos.



I don't think I'll be winterizing anything I'm putting into this unit.

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You should winterize it. You'll find lower achievable temperatures, a narrower range for fractions, much clearer end-product, and less likelihood of clogging the condenser with heavy flow. We ran our first batch without winterizing fully, and the haziness was not easy to ignore, even in a single mL syringe. One dewax later (and a second distillation), she was pale yellow and pretty damn smooth.

About the condenser unit, I'll say I've seen some big producers using units with a vertical column and sharply angled condenser. I think heavy contaminants are less likely to make it over with even the slightest bend before the condenser.

Digital Man said:

If you don't winterize prior to short path you will end up with shit. If you aren't winterizing you have no business even thinking about making distillate.

Finally .............. IMO distillate exists only to appease the cosmetic culture. It looks pretty but tastes like what Vodka tastes to a fine Bourbon or Scotch enthusiast.

People have been "smoking" flower for how long now ..... with all the fats, lipids, seeds, stems, bird shit, chemicals and who knows what else .... and who died because of it? But as of 2016 that's now unacceptable ? LOL ..........

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Not sure what you're trying to get at, but your first and last statements seem awfully contradictory. Maybe not everyone distilling cannibanoids is trying to appease the masses on recreational shelves.

Old Gold said:

I read some Summit stuff today. It's like the soundtrack to a nerd angrily masturbating to sadomasochistic fantasies until he bleeds. I dunno. There are some good bits of information, he isn't TOTALLY full of shit.

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That's priceless. Thank you.

Bigjohnny: There's much more to high vacuum short path than meets the eye. Learning about high vacuum pumps and troubleshooting, instrumentation, heat control etc. Your best bet is to find someone experienced who can spend a few days showing you how. It will be better than taking a class or spending months trying to figure it out on your own.

toohighmf said:

EK had almost convinced me to sell my shit off. In a lot of regards, he's a dick, .... I've never met anyone so passionate about trademarking their work, or the enforcement of patent infringement!

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Problem is he's basically a patent troll.

His patents are design patents as opposed to utility patents. Design patents are for the ornamental design of something, like shoes or lingerie and not actual inventions. Useless and impossible to enforce for scientific gear.
Utility patents are used for protecting actual innovation and cover the functional aspects. I guess he hired a good lawyer and found this was a way to "patent" a decades old short path head design.

There is absolutely nothing new in his designs.

RB

Old Gold said:

Do this basically
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6OyNB8V7Hc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB6HHuzfadw

Packing the distillation column with something like stainless steel wool or glass wool (I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS- ESPECIALLY GLASS WOOL) at the vigereuxs or right at the upper thermometer inlet seems like a good way to create natural rates of reflux/rejection

Click to expand...

That does not apply to high vacuum, because high vacuum with high output is not possible with restrictions - especially small restrictions - or much vapor in the system. Spinning band columns apply.

A Vigreux not to be confused with Summit's E-Vigoreux usually does not have much obstruction or holdup, but for high vacuum it would have to be very short and might help with bump splash. This Summit it's a little expensive for what you get. Calling it a Rundkolben instead of a RBF is this German glass or Chinese?

The ideal system has as short and unobstructed a path for vapor as there can possibly be between the evaporator, condenser, and vacuum source, with the receiver as a perfect cold trap in between.

G.O. Joe said:

That does not apply to high vacuum, because high vacuum with high output is not possible with restrictions - especially small restrictions - or much vapor in the system. Spinning band columns apply.

A Vigreux not to be confused with Summit's E-Vigoreux usually does not have much obstruction or holdup, but for high vacuum it would have to be very short and might help with bump splash. This Summit it's a little expensive for what you get. Calling it a Rundkolben instead of a RBF is this German glass or Chinese?

The ideal system has as short and unobstructed a path for vapor as there can possibly be between the evaporator, condenser, and vacuum source, with the receiver as a perfect cold trap in between.

Click to expand...

Maybe not tightly packed, but something at the thermometer inlet? Meh, I'll take your word. I've never packed my vapor path.

I wonder which companies selling short path equipment for cannabis have actually calculated estimated mean free path of targeted molecules? Relatively clean starting material would have to be assumed. EK claimed in that amazing demo video that he designed the E-vigereux accordingly, and has done the math himself. I highly doubt it.
(I only begin to understand how deep the math will go, so I'm not bashing of any company that hasn't figured it out to such precision)
Can this mean free path be measured in an actively running system? Seems like it would require some high-speed electron scanning microscope. That'd be pretty cool.

Rickys bong said:

His patents are design patents as opposed to utility patents. Design patents are for the ornamental design of something, like shoes or lingerie and not actual inventions. Useless and impossible to enforce for scientific gear.
Utility patents are used for protecting actual innovation and cover the functional aspects. I guess he hired a good lawyer and found this was a way to "patent" a decades old short path head design.

There is absolutely nothing new in his designs.

RB

Click to expand...

I've seen utility patents so simple as to change the ratio of reagents or solvents used in prior inventions, and claim that the entire premise of the patent is to provide a method that is faster and/or yields better than the prior design. No claims to invention or anything new... Just doing it more efficiently...

Wow, lots of info here.

First off, I didn't just rush out and buy this thing.... the long and short of it is that this showed up at my door, and it's up to me to sort it out....... lol?


The couple videos I've seen didn't show anyone winterizing the BHO, but also I can't exactly get everclear so winterizing is an extremely costly option at best.
I also don't really have a filter to winterize anything and I have such a volume of product that I'd likely need to winterize on the scale of about a 5 gallon bucket or more.
but I digress

At this point I have a lot to learn, so getting to know the basics of the machine is going to best suit me right now and then I can worry about improving things.

I don't exactly have anyon who could "train" me perse, so that isn't much of an option, and anyone in my circle who could show me isn't likely to know even half of what I do.....many of these guys are "chimps" just perform steps with no understanding....that's why they dragged me into this lol



one of my biggest concerns here is the smell I keep reading about, as EK calls it "terpschwitz".

I'm seeing people make two passes which to me doesn't exactly seem to be the best way to go about it and would cause more degradation.
So how do we go about removing that smell without causing degredation?