Want to get back into flood and drain!!!

Loc Dog · Jul 21, 2016

I was talked into coir by GG4 growers. I hate it with a passion. Need to figure out a good setup for flood and drain.

I use window boxes with plastic pots that limit how quick they drain. Any suggestions on how long a flood and how often. I used to do every 3 hour water for 10 minutes. What pot size?? Was thinking gallon.

yankeetransplnt · Jul 21, 2016

Unfortunately, with flood and drain, there is no single answer to flood cycles...when the plants are small , they dont use as much water so there is no need to flood as often..where as a larger mature plant with transpire much more thus have to be flooded more often...if ur doing plantlet, quart size containers are about right and something larger, such as a scrog plant would need that gallon size (or bigger)....best thing u can do is to watch your plants and make a schedule on how quickly they use all the 'held' water...then set the flood so they dont have a chance to wilt...AND of course that time btwn floods will decrease as the plants get bigger...All part of flood and drain systems....after a crop, or two, u should know exactly where ur timers should be l set for any given grow stage....
U CAN set it to flood very frequently so u dont have to make changes as they grow but this in turn will bring excess nutes to your plants and its best to let them use that retained water btwn cycles so they dont stay too wet....easier than it may sound once ur into it...my 2 cents..YT

RockinRobot · Jul 21, 2016

How often you flood depends more on your medium. With clay pellets 4 times a day works great regardless of plant size.

You only need to flood long enough to fill the tray. Flooding longer will not gain you anything. For me it takes 2.5 min for the tray to fill to max depth. My timer is only adjustable to the minute so I flood for 3 min and it takes about 5 for it to drain back out.

plutosmoke · Jul 21, 2016

i used clay pellets once and hated it with a passion because I'm a neat freak. cleaning pellets is not fun at all. I use RW cubes. and as others have said, it will depend on the size of your plant and root mass. As transplanted clones u might not feed for a week and you'll gradually work up to 4 times a day depending on plant stage and its uptake. Just do a simple lift of the cube to adjust your feeding schedule.

Joint Lock · Jul 21, 2016

If temps are in 70s I use this schedule and tweak as needed

seedlings every 12 hrs a food for 15 mins

Juveniles flood at every 8 hrs for 15mins

12-18in plants I flood every 6 hrs 15 mins

18in plus every 4 hrs 15min flood

Flowering plants need flooded every 2-3 hrs 15 min floods

Keep PH at 6 you will be fine

RockinRobot · Jul 21, 2016

plutosmoke said:
i used clay pellets once and hated it with a passion because I'm a neat freak. cleaning pellets is not fun at all. I use RW cubes. and as others have said, it will depend on the size of your plant and root mass. As transplanted clones u might not feed for a week and you'll gradually work up to 4 times a day depending on plant stage and its uptake. Just do a simple lift of the cube to adjust your feeding schedule.

I don't clean the clay pellets. It costs me same price for new pellets each run as it does to buy new RW.

Loc Dog · Jul 22, 2016

Thank You!!! I appreciate all responses. Have a few questions -

1. Why would hydroton need to be replaced??? Thought it was inert

2. In coco GG4 got very low feed. Start 350 PPM and end 600 PPM (.7 and 1.2 EC). Will hydro need higher. I am not sure if this is right - I was monitoring reservoir and thought they needed more feed if PPM/EC went down and less if it went up. This is my main concern, since GG4 hates over feeding.

3. I typically clone into 1.5 inch rockwool, then into 3.5 inch netpot with hydroton. Should that go into final pot?? I usually am afraid to disturb the roots, up potting.

I have some awesome looking cuts that I will post pictures of, occasionally. Only 1 or 2 have roots popping out of 3.5 inch netpot.
Some just out of 1.5 inch rockwool.

Sorry - my camera was high quality Sony in 2005.

RockinRobot · Jul 22, 2016

Loc Dog said:
Thank You!!! I appreciate all responses. Have a few questions -

1. Why would hydroton need to be replaced??? Thought it was inert

2. In coco GG4 got very low feed. Start 350 PPM and end 600 PPM (.7 and 1.2 EC). Will hydro need higher. I am not sure if this is right - I was monitoring reservoir and thought they needed more feed if PPM/EC went down and less if it went up. This is my main concern, since GG4 hates over feeding.

3. I typically clone into 1.5 inch rockwool, then into 3.5 inch netpot with hydroton. Should that go into final pot?? I usually am afraid to disturb the roots, up potting.

I have some awesome looking cuts that I will post pictures of, occasionally. Only 1 or 2 have roots popping out of 3.5 inch netpot.
Some just out of 1.5 inch rockwool.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=51120&pictureid=1629306&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Sorry - my camera was high quality Sony in 2005.

Hydroton does not NEED to be replaced but, as plutosmoke said, it is a pain to clean the roots out of between grows so for myself I just replace each run.

Your feed values look very similar to mine. I recently started running CO2 and have been able to bump up a little in flower.

I go from 1.5" RW cubes to 2 gallon fabric pots with the sides folded down so they are only ~6" tall. (I can fit 10 of these on my flood table. I like the 2 gal folded down as they are larger diameter and make for more stable plant.

About the only change you should have is going to be feed schedule. Hydroton 4 times/day. Not sure your feed schedule on Coco but i'm sure it's not that often.

As far as flood schedule goes I see many people flooding for long periods. That is not necessary. You only need to flood long enough to reach the desired flood height. Letting the pump run longer will not increase yield in any way. For me it takes 2.5 minutes to fill the flood tray. Since my timer is only adjustable to the minute I flood for 3 min then it takes about 5 to drain.

Loc Dog · Jul 22, 2016

RockinRobot said:
Hydroton does not NEED to be replaced but, as plutosmoke said, it is a pain to clean the roots out of between grows so for myself I just replace each run.

Your feed values look very similar to mine. I recently started running CO2 and have been able to bump up a little in flower.

I go from 1.5" RW cubes to 2 gallon fabric pots with the sides folded down so they are only ~6" tall. (I can fit 10 of these on my flood table. I like the 2 gal folded down as they are larger diameter and make for more stable plant.

About the only change you should have is going to be feed schedule. Hydroton 4 times/day. Not sure your feed schedule on Coco but i'm sure it's not that often.

As far as flood schedule goes I see many people flooding for long periods. That is not necessary. You only need to flood long enough to reach the desired flood height. Letting the pump run longer will not increase yield in any way. For me it takes 2.5 minutes to fill the flood tray. Since my timer is only adjustable to the minute I flood for 3 min then it takes about 5 to drain.

Thanks!!

I knew I forgot something. Trying to save on electric. How long before flood does air pump need to go on for that benefit???

I got hydro down with autoflowers, after many runs, and have not done in 2 or 3 years.

Thanks!!!!

RockinRobot · Jul 22, 2016

Loc Dog said:
Thanks!!

I knew I forgot something. Trying to save on electric. How long before flood does air pump need to go on for that benefit???

I got hydro down with autoflowers, after many runs, and have not done in 2 or 3 years.

Thanks!!!!

"Technically" you don't need an air pump at all with Flood and Drain. With Flood and Drain Oxygen exchange to the roots comes in the drain cycle. Flood forces all the dead air out of the substrate drain pulls fresh Oxygen to the roots.

That being said I prefer to leave my air pump running 24/7. When the rez isn't aerated it starts to smell funky then I feel obligated to change it out sooner than may be necessary. Keeping it aerated seems to keep rez more stable IMO. Air pump is pennies to run.

Loc Dog · Jul 22, 2016

RockinRobot said:
"Technically" you don't need an air pump at all with Flood and Drain. With Flood and Drain Oxygen exchange to the roots comes in the drain cycle. Flood forces all the dead air out of the substrate drain pulls fresh Oxygen to the roots.

That being said I prefer to leave my air pump running 24/7. When the rez isn't aerated it starts to smell funky then I feel obligated to change it out sooner than may be necessary. Keeping it aerated seems to keep rez more stable IMO. Air pump is pennies to run.

I was running air pump with heisenberg tea towards end of growing hydro.

Although that picture is shit, GG4 cuts are cranking and healthy. Some 10 days since roots came out of rockwool, and 1 that came out today.

Some forums have great people, and some dicks with cliques. I appreciate the help!!!!

Loc Dog · Jul 22, 2016

FYI,

I run the most cheap ass flood and drain, due to long term un-employment. It uses HD black flower pots, made to drain very slowly, in HD black window boxes with drain at one end. If you have too many plants, run second pump on same reservoir, on alternate schedule.

RockinRobot · Jul 22, 2016

Loc Dog said:
FYI,

I run the most cheap ass flood and drain, due to long term un-employment. It uses HD black flower pots, made to drain very slowly, in HD black window boxes with drain at one end. If you have too many plants, run second pump on same reservoir, on alternate schedule.

Hehehe... My flood tray is a plastic underbed storage container...

:tiphat:

Joint Lock · Jul 22, 2016

Hydroton is nice . but I found back in 99 I could just use plain old pea gravel from lowes in the 50lb bags for 3$ work a charm . hydroton doesn't need replaced its washable and reusable

Loc Dog · Jul 23, 2016

WaxyTaxi said:
I ran flood/drain back in the day, now I'm coco all the way.

What made you hate it so much Loc?

Fungus gnats and other bugs, salt buildup/the PH PPM of runoff was way off, hand watering on hands and knee's, high humidity (that is major reason going back. A couple of grows were ruined by mold), all the time collecting RO water, hauling the water, the cost of making nutrient solution, etc..

With the flood and drain, had it automated. Took time at first to setup right, but just check the reservoir every few days, and change every 7 to 10 days.

PetFlora · Jul 23, 2016

I developed a inexpensive DIY- Mini Me F & D. I have a grow thread you might want to investigate.

I stopped using hydroton a couple years ago

Here's a couple pics

View attachment 372398 View attachment 372399

View attachment 372400 View attachment 372401

View attachment 372402

Loc Dog · Jul 23, 2016

PetFlora said:
I developed a inexpensive DIY- Mini Me F & D. I have a grow thread you might want to investigate.

I stopped using hydroton a couple years ago

Here's a couple pics

View attachment 372398 View attachment 372399

View attachment 372400 View attachment 372401

View attachment 372402

Will take a look. I have about 80 pounds of river rock I bought and never used. I run 2 tents, so could even try a comparison.

Loc Dog · Jul 23, 2016

WaxyTaxi said:
all of that happen on my first run, but after you do it a few times you understand that the gnats are caused by overwatering early on. the salt buildup is from not having fed multiple times or running too big a pot and under/overfeeding, high humidity is great, if you know how to tame it, with lots of airflow, dehueys, and dedication to the vpd chart. lastly coco prefers simple nutrients any a&b, maxi, or floranova will work fine.

soon I will be using dosatrons and eliminating a reservoir completely, injecting my water with the a&b.

I hope you find a dope flood and drain system that works for you, let me know if you ever want to go back to coco amigo

Wish I had met you 2 years ago. On GG4 thread, they were pretty much F everyone we do not know for years.

I know a lot do drip systems, but I could not get basic to produce consistent results. Many used very basic nutrients. I used full GH Flora series. They would use MaxiGro and Maxibloom with some other additives.

I have everything, so could do a little comparison growing, if I could ask you some questions, to get it right.

Thanks!!!

Loc Dog · Jul 23, 2016

WaxyTaxi said:
No problem! I suggest trying to pull a bow from a 3 or 5 gl pot first, once you can do that, monocrop, fill a room up and watch the magic happen. check out djm's coco tree's thread. That's what got me coco loco.

I am only growing GG4 clone cut. I do have one S1 growing right now. Will clone in next week or two.

If you can give me advice, will do side by side, with coco and hydro. I do flood and drain. I am very open minded, and will try to my best to report impartially. I am also broke, so do not have much money to spend.

Can give equal light.

PetFlora · Jul 23, 2016

Loc Dog said:
Will take a look. I have about 80 pounds of river rock I bought and never used. I run 2 tents, so could even try a comparison.

I started a new thread with a couple tweaks to the rock layout inside the totes

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=7560502#post7560502

Want to get back into flood and drain!!!

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