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Chemical process of curing

coldcanna

Active member
Veteran
I've read through hundreds of pages of info about how people cure their finished flowers. Was wondering if someone here could either explain or reference a paper as to what chemical processes are happening during curing? Trying to develop a science based, instrument measurable process. Thank you
 

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
Google pericarp decarboxylation. More links than I can rightly copy. Prenoid degradation is another.
 

Agronomist

Active member
Google pericarp decarboxylation. More links than I can rightly copy. Prenoid degradation is another.

This is not very productive.
If i chose to work by your methodology i will soon find myself overwhelmed with the huge amount of information. So far i can say that these key words didn't get me far. I mean i did get a bunch of information about fruit ripening and the change in taste over time, But this hardly provides any relevant information about what ACTUALLY happens in Cannabis inflorescence.

If you can narrow it down to lets say a paper or two that are relevant to Cannabis that will be awesome!
 

bsgospel

Bat Macumba
Cannabis specific is difficult to find. True. There just aren't enough papers published (yet! ;) )

But we can break it down into simpler objectives and take from examples learned in other varieties and applications to give ourselves a sense of what we've got on our hands. This methodology may be less overwhelming (which I totally see your point, btw.)

What cells physically make up a fruiting body besides carbon?
What lipids, acids, and metabolic pathways will result in cannabinoids?
What are the biggest factors in the degradation of carbon/prenoids/hydrocarbons?

It's not just chlorophyll we want to remove from the finished bud. I think chlorophyll is used as a catch-all some times to really describe the amount of layers and tissue which comprise a leaf/calyx/off-shoot. Other cells- parenchyma, pericarp, schlerenchyma, mesophylls: these would need to be accounted for in decarboxylation as well. And as of yet, no papers on parenchyma evaporation in cannabis (boo! but hey, we've got bigger fish to fry, haha)

The mevalonate pathway and pyruvate pathway would be a good place to focus on for understanding how a root can take a symbiotic metabolite secretion and transform it into cannabinoids and prenoids in general. And what is measurable that makes a prenoid stronger? If one goes all the way back to the beginning, maybe we can get a Real handle on the final product.

The biggest threat, though, to those prenoids would be heat, light and moisture. And contact from handsy trimmers.

So- instrument measurable/chemistry of curing? *whistles* Dang. Why did I think I could take on such a lofty topic last night? Ah yes; Jameson :p
 

coldcanna

Active member
Veteran
Cannabis specific is difficult to find. True. There just aren't enough papers published (yet! ;) )

But we can break it down into simpler objectives and take from examples learned in other varieties and applications to give ourselves a sense of what we've got on our hands. This methodology may be less overwhelming (which I totally see your point, btw.)

What cells physically make up a fruiting body besides carbon?
What lipids, acids, and metabolic pathways will result in cannabinoids?
What are the biggest factors in the degradation of carbon/prenoids/hydrocarbons?

It's not just chlorophyll we want to remove from the finished bud. I think chlorophyll is used as a catch-all some times to really describe the amount of layers and tissue which comprise a leaf/calyx/off-shoot. Other cells- parenchyma, pericarp, schlerenchyma, mesophylls: these would need to be accounted for in decarboxylation as well. And as of yet, no papers on parenchyma evaporation in cannabis (boo! but hey, we've got bigger fish to fry, haha)

The mevalonate pathway and pyruvate pathway would be a good place to focus on for understanding how a root can take a symbiotic metabolite secretion and transform it into cannabinoids and prenoids in general. And what is measurable that makes a prenoid stronger? If one goes all the way back to the beginning, maybe we can get a Real handle on the final product.

The biggest threat, though, to those prenoids would be heat, light and moisture. And contact from handsy trimmers.

So- instrument measurable/chemistry of curing? *whistles* Dang. Why did I think I could take on such a lofty topic last night? Ah yes; Jameson :p


Very thoughtful post. I have a dusty Plant Physiology book on the shelf I'm going to have to pull off this weekend. My initial thought was to work backward from anecdote- that is; take some cured/ finished flower that a consumer would deem "elite" and test it compared to its pre-cure self. I have access to HPLC and simple moisture meters so that's a start.

Temperatures and ambient humidity levels are generally accepted to be 68*F and 50-55% humidity for initial drying then 58-62% final product. What is left open to me is how much time is necessary for a perfect cure, what data points or procedures will be indicative of a perfect cure, what does "smooth" or "tasty" look like on paper.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Curing in tobacco is well studied but there's still a huge gap in our understanding of what really happens.
Just remember, cannabis is usually not cured as extensively as tobacco but the basic biological and chemical processes are the same if curing is done right. From what I've read/seen, cannabis is often not truly cured but simply dried in a way which helps the burning/glowing process whereas changes in the aroma are more or less only caused by simple ageing.
As usual, tokers have their own vocabulary which is often misleading... unless you're high AF in which case you might seek your answers in the "Deep stoner thoughts" thread :D .
 

dc2569

Member
From what i have studied, There is a microbe that colonizes and starts to breakdown clorophyl. This microbe thrives best at around room temp and 50 to 60 % humidity. Light also kills this microbe therefore curing should be done in dark. This microbe also thrives inside of a glass container for some unknown reason. That is why we cure by the guidelines we do.
 

Agronomist

Active member
From what i have studied, There is a microbe that colonizes and starts to breakdown clorophyl.

What is this microbes scientific name?
What is the enzyme that brakes down chlorophyll called?
What does chlorophyll brake down to?

If you actually studied this it wont be a problem for you answer this and give a reliable article that backs your claim.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
There are many different microbes colonising the leaves but they are not the primary cause for chlorophyll catabolism, senescence is ;) . Microbes and hence fermentation don't play a role these days but were the reason why Mexi brick weed and Thai sticks looked not quite the way you're used to from modern dispensary buds.
BTW enzymes breaking down chlorophyll are called chlorophyllases of which there are several ones. There are several catabolites too, often tetrapyrrol compounds with cleaved macrocycle.
 

coldcanna

Active member
Veteran
Hi folks sorry I've been away from this thread, too busy these days....

I have been reading through dozens of scientific articles on Essential Oil research and will try to post up some information soon. What I have found so far in general terms is that the plant's essential oils are at peak state right at harvest and are made up primarily of Monoterpenes. During the cure terpenes degrade into Sesquiterpenes and alchohols in a linear fashion against time. In many plants used for essential oils the leaf matter is flash heated to kill enzymatic activity and its degradation of oils, producing a better oil than a sun or air dried version.

So it seems there are 2 lines of inquiry here. We know that curing does not help the oils aspect, but since we are smoking the product we must have some way to reduce chlorophyll and sugar content of plant matter. I am moving into the research on this avenue and will get back with a more proper, cited summary as soon as I can.
 

Agronomist

Active member
Monoterpenes do not break down to sesquiterpenes.
Due to the fact that sesquiterpenes are 5 carbon atomes bigger then monoterpenes.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
The mono- to sesquiterpene ratio shifts during ageing because monoterpenes are more volatile ;) .
Chlorophyll is often not broken down because the buds are still green and sugars aren't necessarily broken down either. Extrapolating from tobacco curing (which is a real curing as for example smokable tobacco isn't green), starch is broken down to single sugars. This alters burning (less black ashes) and aroma (free sugars and amino acids react together in something called Maillard reaction which is for example responsible fro the smell of fresh bread or grilled meat).
 

coldcanna

Active member
Veteran
Monoterpenes do not break down to sesquiterpenes.
Due to the fact that sesquiterpenes are 5 carbon atomes bigger then monoterpenes.

Thank you for the correction- I only looked at GC-MS ratios in terms of percentage of oil makeup so that makes sense. I misinterpreted that as a degraded state.

So Ornamental- knowing what you know about the tobacco curing. Would there be a way to artificially speed up this reaction via heat, enviro conditions, etc... A perfect result would be to maintain as close as possible to the "raw" oil makeup of the plant.
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
"water cure"

Trim the buds for smoking then place underwater instead of hanging in air.
Change the water every six hours the first day and every twelve for the next week.
This pulls a fair amount of the chlorophyll out along with all the water soluble resins, leaving wood fiber and oils as the remaining ingredients.

Not the same as curing but the product is about as potent as it is possible to get and still be bud.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
...Would there be a way to artificially speed up this reaction via heat, enviro conditions, etc... A perfect result would be to maintain as close as possible to the "raw" oil makeup of the plant.
There is, but it ain't perfect ;( . It'd be called flue-curing and sounds interesting to try though I'd use less heat than for tobacco. Maybe use some sort of incubator (aka kiln) to heat up to 30-35°C... but mould would become an issue cause buds are tightly packed nuggets of small and poorly aerated leaflets and flowers compared to single huge tobacco leaves.
 
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