Simple Relay?

Humple W. · Apr 21, 2017

Hi, all. Long time lurker, first time poster (same old story). I'm building a grow cabinet for my small medical grow, and I'm now at a point where I'm stumped. I'll be running two 250w digital ballasts, each powering a MH/HPS light for each of two grow chambers. Being the noob that I am, I initially bought an Apollo 9 digital timer, only to learn that I shouldn't be using it without a relay/contacter/controller of some kind.

I have searched high, low, far, and wide for some basic tutorial on putting together a simple relay, soley for the purpose of triggering a ballast (or ballasts, since I have two). I've seen write-ups on DIY controllers and flip-flop boxes, but I think that's more than I need? Wouldn't a flip-flop only be needed if I wanted to run multiple lamps off a single ballast? I won't be doing that. I want each chamber to run independently.

So yeah, I've searched "relay" here at ICMag, and I must have read every thread that popped up in the search results, but no luck (it's entirely possible that it's there and I missed it, but I've been looking through the site for DAYS to no avail). I've googled the shit out of this, guys. Maybe I'm getting results that would be useful to someone better versed in this sort of thing, but to my uneducated eyes it all might as well be written in another language.

In summary: I want to build a simple relay (or relays if I need one for each ballast) that will trigger my light timers, without any bells and whistles. Just on and off, according to schedule. Can anyone point me to a tutorial?

And then there's the question of whether I should even attempt this at all. I know it's very foolish to mess with electrical if you don't know what you're doing. But I'm not sure if building a relay and hooking it up carries the same dangers as wiring an outlet or some such? I don't want to be nominated for a Darwin award.

Sorry for my ignorant questions, and thanks for any guidance you can provide!

rykus · Apr 21, 2017

You want an on off contactor... 120v controlled.. probably 20amp be fine ..

Basically power goes from plug into contactor control wire goes from contactor to timer to control the powers ability to go through contactor to you plug outlet receptacle (use ceramic)

Safe simple and easy... use a bigger contactor if you want to expand later.. 20amp is only good for 1 light on each side of a split 240... less if you use a 120 power source...

Cheers n hope that helps. Feel free to pm me or as I always recommend ask Rives!

Treetroit City · Apr 21, 2017

https://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.php

That is a pretty simple relay box.

I also suggest asking rives, he walked me through building one.

Humple W. · Apr 21, 2017

Thanks for the quick reply! I will be using a 120v power source, yes. So in planning for the future, and to ensure that everything is well matched, would something like this be appropriate?

https://www.amazon.com/Packard-C230B-Pole-Contactor-Voltage/dp/B001KGSJ74

Humple W. · Apr 21, 2017

Unfortunately, my post count is not yet high enough to PM. I'll keep that in mind for the day I hit 50. Thanks!

OldPhart · Apr 21, 2017

Humple W. said:
Thanks for the quick reply! I will be using a 120v power source, yes. So in planning for the future, and to ensure that everything is well matched, would something like this be appropriate?

https://www.amazon.com/Packard-C230B-Pole-Contactor-Voltage/dp/B001KGSJ74

I like it. I like enclosed contacts, just on general principle, so crap doesn't get into them as much or have sparks possibly flying around. I also like the large lug terminals for the line in/out. I wouldn't fool with all the spade terminals, I would actually remove the spade terminals, and just put all your wires into the lug terminal and tighten it down.

Edit, clearly you will have to use the spade terminals for your coil/trigger.

rykus · Apr 21, 2017

Yeah looks about right to me, sorry forgot was your first post...

I'll try to check back as well, but is pretty easy now and looks like some other knowlagable folk stopping in... and there are no stupid questions with electricity and safety imo! Make sure your sure, and ask even if it's a minor inclarity...

Cheers

Humple W. · Apr 21, 2017

Thanks! So should I get two and build two separate boxes so that I can control each light's schedule independently? Or is there a way to do it with a single trigger?

Jhhnn · Apr 22, 2017

Humple W. said:
Thanks! So should I get two and build two separate boxes so that I can control each light's schedule independently?

Yes.

Or is there a way to do it with a single trigger?

Not easily. There are multi-channel timers out there but you probably don't want to fuss with them.

This is a good line of power relays rives recommends-

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...Power_Relays,_Open-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)

If you're switching 120v with a 120vtimer this is what you want-

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-1C-120A

I like these timer modules-

https://www.amazon.com/Grasslin-Int..._sbs_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=17ZM4EVM8Z88GGV2KFX0

You can use steel boxes & extension boxes like I did. This has a sub panel for 240v & 120v but construction would be simpler for your purposes-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=57519&pictureid=1343859

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=57519&pictureid=1343757

Switching a duplex outlet gives you the option of running a fan on the same cycle as the light, as in two stage ventilation.

Humple W. · Apr 25, 2017

Thanks again, everyone!

So would the part I linked (https://www.amazon.com/Packard-C230B-Pole-Contactor-Voltage/dp/B001KGSJ74) be significantly inferior to the part at https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-1C-120A? If only a slight improvement over the cheaper option, I'd prefer to spend less.

Jhhnn · Apr 25, 2017

Humple W. said:
Thanks again, everyone!

So would the part I linked (https://www.amazon.com/Packard-C230B-Pole-Contactor-Voltage/dp/B001KGSJ74) be significantly inferior to the part at https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-1C-120A? If only a slight improvement over the cheaper option, I'd prefer to spend less.

Either one will serve your purposes just fine. You'll need to put the assembly in an enclosure w/ appropriate hardware which can be expensive all by itself.

sheik_yerbouti · Apr 25, 2017

If you're only running 500w of lighting than that Apollo timer should be fine as it will be rated for 15a. 500w @ 120v is 4.2a.

A contactor setup is of course a better set up but I personally don't see the need if you only have 500w of lighting.

OldPhart · Apr 25, 2017

sheik_yerbouti said:
If you're only running 500w of lighting than that Apollo timer should be fine as it will be rated for 15a. 500w @ 120v is 4.2a.

A contactor setup is of course a better set up but I personally don't see the need if you only have 500w of lighting.

Ditto, I am running the same timer, and feel that it is perfectly safe for use on a 600w digital ballast; and would expect it to have no issues with a pair of 250's. I would start having concerns at 1kw though. I'm actually working on putting together a slave circuit because I'm thinking of expanding, and a relay is cheaper to replace than a timer. I'm actually ordering the Packard relay, just because it can easily/securely take bare wires, and I don't have to fool with crimp terminals.

sheik_yerbouti · Apr 25, 2017

OldPhart said:
Ditto, I am running the same timer, and feel that it is perfectly safe for use on a 600w digital ballast; and would expect it to have no issues with a pair of 250's. I would start having concerns at 1kw though. I'm actually working on putting together a slave circuit because I'm thinking of expanding, and a relay is cheaper to replace than a timer. I'm actually ordering the Packard relay, just because it can easily/securely take bare wires, and I don't have to fool with crimp terminals.

Thats my thoughts...I mean your toaster will pull 800+ Watts

Humple W. · Apr 25, 2017

Thanks again for all the help. You guys are awesome.

I was concerned about the amperage at start-up. Don't know how likely it is for a 250w ballast to go over the limit on one of these Apollo timers, but better safe than sorry, right? Besides, it seems like it could be a fun project.

So now I need to put my shopping list together. Looking at the tutorial on the DIY 4-light controller, I get a little lost. That dude is building for a 240v, and he's running four light's. I'm running 120v and only one light per contactor. So I've ordered the contactors, and I know I need a junction box, and obviously cord/wire for the power. Then some terminals, right? Both ring and spade? Also I need ceramic outlets. Screws, clamps, and... Not sure.

Hate to be such a needy noob, guys. And again, all the helpfulness is just awesome. You guys rock.

OldPhart · Apr 25, 2017

Humple W. said:
Thanks again for all the help. You guys are awesome.

I was concerned about the amperage at start-up. Don't know how likely it is for a 250w ballast to go over the limit on one of these Apollo timers, but better safe than sorry, right? Besides, it seems like it could be a fun project.

So now I need to put my shopping list together. Looking at the tutorial on the DIY 4-light controller, I get a little lost. That dude is building for a 240v, and he's running four light's. I'm running 120v and only one light per contactor. So I've ordered the contactors, and I know I need a junction box, and obviously cord/wire for the power. Then some terminals, right? Both ring and spade? Also I need ceramic outlets. Screws, clamps, and... Not sure.

Hate to be such a needy noob, guys. And again, all the helpfulness is just awesome. You guys rock.

If you can wait till the next weekend, I'll document what I'm building. You are more than fine with the load you're putting on that timer, for a short period of time (hell, probably a long period of time). I'm just building mine for future, and to reduce the wear on the timer. Not to mention, I'm going to put a delay on break timer on mine as well, but I haven't ordered the delay yet, so I'll build it without it, then update when I get the delay. All the delay will do is keep the light from attempting to restart within 5 minutes of the time it is turned off, just to be nice to the bulb in the event of a power glitch.

soundman · Apr 25, 2017

Two 15 amp timers will exceed your requirement and be much easier and cheaper than building a rerlay box or two.

I run 600 wtt hps through digital and mechanical 15 amp timers sold at any lowes or home depot. In over 25 years I have only had one failure. A digital version blew a component and failed. Stick to the mechanical ones and your even better.

What you planned is overkill for sure.

PS., Ive even run both 600's through one digital timer and never ran into issue. That was only for a few months though. That was pushing almost 12 amps on a 15 amp timer.

Humple W. · Apr 25, 2017

OldPhart said:
If you can wait till the next weekend, I'll document what I'm building. You are more than fine with the load you're putting on that timer, for a short period of time (hell, probably a long period of time). I'm just building mine for future, and to reduce the wear on the timer. Not to mention, I'm going to put a delay on break timer on mine as well, but I haven't ordered the delay yet, so I'll build it without it, then update when I get the delay. All the delay will do is keep the light from attempting to restart within 5 minutes of the time it is turned off, just to be nice to the bulb in the event of a power glitch.

I can definitely wait till next weekend. That would be most helpful!

Humple W. · Apr 25, 2017

soundman said:
Two 15 amp timers will exceed your requirement and be much easier and cheaper than building a rerlay box or two.

I run 600 wtt hps through digital and mechanical 15 amp timers sold at any lowes or home depot. In over 25 years I have only had one failure. A digital version blew a component and failed. Stick to the mechanical ones and your even better.

What you planned is overkill for sure.

PS., Ive even run both 600's through one digital timer and never ran into issue. That was only for a few months though. That was pushing almost 12 amps on a 15 amp timer.

Thanks for the input! I guess I may have overreacted, but after reading up on resistive vs inductive loads, I started to worry about the ballast start-up. I expect to have my grow cab completed within the next week, so I'll begin with just the mechanical timers and then add the relays when I've finished them. I figure it will be a useful skill to know - I'm hoping to build a proper grow room in my basement next year, running a couple of 600 watters, so at that point knowing what to do will be of greater value than it may be now.

OldPhart · May 2, 2017

Humple W. said:
I can definitely wait till next weekend. That would be most helpful!

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I hadn't forgotten about you. Have ran into other issues like trying to get another job :puppydoge

I've also decided to implement a thermostat to control AC/fan, and heat. I think that this will be a project that a lot of people could benefit from. I'll drop you a note in this thread when I get it built/documented/posted. I'm a little excited to get this done, I hate jerry rigged shit.

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