Please help? Need to move a quickconnect 24kbtu minisplit asap.

Zarezhu · Jun 29, 2017

Hey all.
So the spot im renting from is a no go after 2 years of smooth indoor operation. I have a 24kbtu friedrich breeze diy/quick connect minisplit that I need to move. Im curious if theres any possible way to save most of the refrigerant when i disconnect the precharged linesets coupling from the outside condenser unit. Or is it going to be contained within both units regardless(minimal to no refrigerant loss)? And are there any precautions I should take? I'll likely be unable to reconnect it for another 6 months or so, it would have to sit in storage disconnected.

I seem to recall reading something about somehow getting all the refrigerant into the airhandler prior to disconnecting the coupling. Maybe im making things up though, idk.

Appreciate any help guys

queequeg152 · Jun 29, 2017

on a typical minisplit you would pump down the unit by closing service valves forcing most of the refrigerant to collect inside the liquid reciever.

then you would recover the rest of the vapor with a typical recovery machine and break the lineset with some nitrogen and cut away the copper or simply undo the flare fittings.

TBH idk how the fancy breeze lineset works... its entirely possible the lineset has shrader valves built in... but it might also just use some sort of piercing valve to puncture some copper caps.

i cant find any real info on the unit so i just cannot say... if the thing has valves in the lineset then you would just pump it down and disconnect the lineset.

if its some sort of puncturing mechanism then you will need to recover the refrigerant remaining after pumping down then break it with nitrogen or air as i mentioned above.

fwiw, you really should be vacuuming down any lineset and evaporator. precharged linesets are pretty hacky and always introduce a small amount of moisture and atmosphere to the system.

make sure to read the install manual if you have it.

Speed of green · Jun 30, 2017

I was in a similar situation and had to move my stuff last minute.

ended up disconnecting the two refrigerant lines at the condenser, it will hiss pretty loud for a minute or two, also a lot of oil will come out so have a catch can or some towels ready.

I dont know if R410 is bad to inhale so i just walked away for a while.

After two months of sitting i had a licensed hvac guy come out and do a full recharge/oil/cleaning it came out to $380 This was a 3 ton Mr.Slim unit.

This is probably really bad for the environment and definitely not recommended.

Hrpuffnkush · Jun 30, 2017

You will need to recharge it

queequeg152 · Jun 30, 2017

Speed of green said:
I was in a similar situation and had to move my stuff last minute.

ended up disconnecting the two refrigerant lines at the condenser, it will hiss pretty loud for a minute or two, also a lot of oil will come out so have a catch can or some towels ready.

I dont know if R410 is bad to inhale so i just walked away for a while.

After two months of sitting i had a licensed hvac guy come out and do a full recharge/oil/cleaning it came out to $380 This was a 3 ton Mr.Slim unit.

This is probably really bad for the environment and definitely not recommended.

oy... so you basically vented a shit load of refrigerant to atmosphere. the EPA can fine you thousands for this.

and it sounds as though you did not pump the unit down either... the reason you got oil gushing out is because the oil in the sump was flushed out by liquid refrigerant boiling inside the crank case.

you need to buy the proper tools if you are going to be working with HVAC equipment... minisplits especially as they are very sensitive in nature. most of them dont even have real filter dryers... just tiny inline screens to block the passage of shit to sensitive EEV orifaces.

what you should have done is pumped down the unit to the reciever tank. you dont need a recovery machine to do this... this would have kept probably 95% of the refrigerant inside the unit and would have kept the condensing unit clean and dry.

the rest of the refrigerant inside the evap and lineset should then be recovered as vapor (not to be mixed with liquid recovered 410).

then you can cut into the copper without any issues legal or otherwise.

guys refrigerant molecules are fucking full of single and double ( pie bonds what ever...) covalent bonds. these make the molecules vibrate when exposed to infared energy and are the reason why they have super high global warming figures.

you should not be venting this shit, its bad for your equipment and bad for the atmosphere.

just get a cheap recovery machine... you can get one now for like 350 bucks. a recovery tank is another 70 bucks, and a cheap manifold is like 50 bucks.

you spent amost as much on your hvac tech for one visit... imagine how fast the equipment will pay for itself over 5-10 years?

if you are going to be working on hvac equipment you need to learn about this shit and then make that investment in equipment before you go and vent a bunch of refrigerant. OR just have professionals do this... frankly this is FAR the better option imo, thought i understand the circumstances here.

queequeg152 · Jun 30, 2017

ffs guys. just get a proper recovery machine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robinair-RG...ct-Refrigerant-Recovery-Machine-/192231153968

this one is piss small, and probably wont last as long as something like a nice appion g5, but for a handful of recoveries per year? you dont need anything better.

i have a 2nd hand infinicon dual myself, because i dont install shit for a living, its more than enough for my purposes.

Speed of green · Jun 30, 2017

I agree it was a bad move, and not a route that should be taken.

How do you pump down the unit without the HVAC equipment?

I think there should be a sticky for anyone who needs to emergency disassemble a minisplit.

I imagine there isnt one easy answer for most mini-split brands, but i was totally unaware that it could even be done without equipment.

Thanks queequeg.

EDIT:
This is the statement i am referring to.

"what you should have done is pumped down the unit to the reciever tank. you dont need a recovery machine to do this... this would have kept probably 95% of the refrigerant inside the unit and would have kept the condensing unit clean and dry. "

Treetroit City · Jun 30, 2017

I believe with the breeze you cut power to it unconnect line set move it and connect it back again. I would call friedrich but I'm 99% sure. That is one of their selling points.
From the website,

"Breeze Mobility
Unlike traditional ductless split systems, Breeze can be disconnected and moved. Remarkably, this is one split system that you can take with you."

Zarezhu · Jul 1, 2017

So Ive got to move the unit either tomorrow or sunday. Treetroit you are correct, the website states that it can be taken down and moved. I called Friedrich yesterday, and I couldnt talk to technical support. The lady told me that I should just leave the unit off for a day so the reefrgerant could settle in the condenser (lol). Tomorrow morning Ill call and talk to technical support.
E
I'd muich rather pump down the unit if necessary (although, it may possibly not be necessary). If all I needed was a gauge set, I couild go out and purchase one. The only manual available for this unit only shows the simple install instructions. Connect the lineset, connect the electrical component, and turn it on.

These are the only useful pictures I could find:

Do these pictres help at all? If I detach the quick connect lineset, is there a chance the refrigerant will simple stay within the lineset and the condenser, without leaking out? IOt seems to be have made for that purpose.

If I really ned to pump it down, I just need to know where the service port valve is, which valve the liquid side is, which valve the gfas side is, and how to turn the valves.

I know i sound like a noob, but Imjustin panic mode. I hate having to pack up my room and throwing it in storage.

Thanks for all the input guys

Treetroit City · Jul 1, 2017

I've talked to them before and yes all you need to do is cut power, let it settle like you said and unconnect it. I was told after 4-6 moves it might need a top off on freon.

OldPhart · Jul 1, 2017

I know queequeg152 will bust my balls, but all I would do is close the valve on the smaller line, connect a gauge to the service port, turn it on and watch the gauge. When the gauge hits about 20 psi, pull the disconnect on the power, and close the valve on the larger line. Then disconnect and move. All you should have to do to get it working again is leak test the line set/indoor cassette, vacuum it down, open the valves, and turn it on. You won't loose a significant amount of Freon, and it should work just fine. BTW, I wouldn't try to pump it down to 0 psi or below, the compressors are not designed to do this, and the amount of vapor you will leave in the line set and indoor cassette is rather trivial, imho.

Treetroit City · Jul 1, 2017

It's a Breeze!!!

watts · Jul 1, 2017

Did they stop making the Breeze units? Are there any other brands similar?

queequeg152 · Jul 2, 2017

Speed of green said:
I agree it was a bad move, and not a route that should be taken.

How do you pump down the unit without the HVAC equipment?

a pump down is when you simply shut off the liquid line( the smaller copper line thats hoter to the touch).

the compressor matters when it comes to pump downs... so you REALLY need to read the units service manual or instruction/install manual.

scroll compressors do not really want to pull down into a vacuum in my experiance... i think normally you pump down to like 10 psi or something like that. maby 0 psi but it usually varies with the manufacturer.

you can pump down to the reciever tank or into a recovery tank.

recriprocating compressors are less bothered running into a vacuum, and rotary compressors even less so... but you need to understand that these compressors are NOT vacuum pumps.

where does the refrigerant go in a regular pump down? there is a fairly big tank inside the condensing unit... it looks almost like another compressor, usually a tall skinny tank. thats the liquid reciever. most medium temp AC condensors will have one. lower temp stuff like freezer condensers probably would have a suction accumualtor instead. you cannot pump down into a suction accumulator far as i know.

when you are pumping refrigerant at VERY different environmental conditions you need this tank because it gives the refrigerant some where to go when conditions change... so when its colder outside or colder inside, less refrigerant will be boiling insiide your evaporator... your TXV or EEV will choke down the flow and refrigerant will accumuate inside this receiver tank.

when its hot as fuck and its hot inside your house... the metering device will be wide open and less of the refrigerant will remain inside the tank as you need more of this refrigerant boiling from a higher liquid temp at a higher pressure... hence you need more of it in circulation to move the heat out of the space.

queequeg152 · Jul 2, 2017

OldPhart said:
I know queequeg152 will bust my balls, but all I would do is close the valve on the smaller line, connect a gauge to the service port, turn it on and watch the gauge. When the gauge hits about 20 psi, pull the disconnect on the power, and close the valve on the larger line. Then disconnect and move. All you should have to do to get it working again is leak test the line set/indoor cassette, vacuum it down, open the valves, and turn it on. You won't loose a significant amount of Freon, and it should work just fine. BTW, I wouldn't try to pump it down to 0 psi or below, the compressors are not designed to do this, and the amount of vapor you will leave in the line set and indoor cassette is rather trivial, imho.

what you are describing is a pump down.

while i would not consider it a trivial amount of refrigerant vented... its MUCH better than venting the whole fucking charge.

i dont condone this, but if you fucking refuse to buy a 350 dollar recovery machine... than this is your best option.

queequeg152 · Jul 2, 2017

Zarezhu said:
So Ive got to move the unit either tomorrow or sunday. Treetroit you are correct, the website states that it can be taken down and moved. I called Friedrich yesterday, and I couldnt talk to technical support. The lady told me that I should just leave the unit off for a day so the reefrgerant could settle in the condenser (lol). Tomorrow morning Ill call and talk to technical support.
E
I'd muich rather pump down the unit if necessary (although, it may possibly not be necessary). If all I needed was a gauge set, I couild go out and purchase one. The only manual available for this unit only shows the simple install instructions. Connect the lineset, connect the electrical component, and turn it on.

These are the only useful pictures I could find:
View Image View Image
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=71179&pictureid=1759176 View Image

Do these pictres help at all? If I detach the quick connect lineset, is there a chance the refrigerant will simple stay within the lineset and the condenser, without leaking out? IOt seems to be have made for that purpose.

If I really ned to pump it down, I just need to know where the service port valve is, which valve the liquid side is, which valve the gfas side is, and how to turn the valves.

I know i sound like a noob, but Imjustin panic mode. I hate having to pack up my room and throwing it in storage.

Thanks for all the input guys

it sounds like the lineset connections probably have some sort of schrader valves inside. this means you can just disconnect them without venting.

what the lady said is actually correct.

shut the thing down, let it cool off overnight. this will let as much refrigerant as possible condense and collect inside the crank case of the compressor.

you can actually heat gun the evaporator to get even more out of the cassette... basically the colder the condenser is relative to the evaporator, the more refrigerant will collect inside the condenser. you could also put ice bags ontop of the compressor, but again this is not really necessary, just let it sit and cool down for a while and do the disconnect when its colder outside... middle of the night or early in the morning.

i would not heat gun it though... there is too much plastic shit and electronics to do this safety in a minisplit.

whether or not you want to pump id down is up to you.

if you have a gauge and know how to use a gauge then its probably a good idea as it will prevent loss of refrigerant from the evaporator and line set if something goes wrong during disassembly or reassembly.

what ever you do close the service valves first.

Zarezhu · Jul 2, 2017

Wellp i let it sit overnight, just disconnected the electrical and lineset. Not even a hiss. Easy peasy Breezey lol. Now to remove the airhandler and recoil the lineset without kinking... joy

Treetroit City · Jul 2, 2017

Zarezhu said:
Wellp i let it sit overnight, just disconnected the electrical and lineset. Not even a hiss. Easy peasy Breezey lol. Now to remove the airhandler and recoil the lineset without kinking... joy

Good to have confirmation, thanks. I need to move mine from inside the my barn to the outside for the summer. I don't have heat in my barn so having the compressor in there keeps it nice and warm throughout the winter but hot as hell unfortunately in the summer.

queequeg152 · Jul 3, 2017

can you take some photographs of the lineset connections?

like photographs of the internals? IE shoot a pic down the fitting openings?

i know thats probably a hard photo to get... but maby hold a flashlight aimed down the tubes and shoot a pic?

i am genuinely interested to see how they work. id appreciate the effort if you could get the picture.... but if its already wrapped up and stored away somewhere please dont go out of your way.

Zarezhu · Jul 4, 2017

@tree- welcome! It was quite easy, the only difficult thing was keeping the lineset from kinking.

@watts- I do believe they discontinued the Breeze. The Friedrich website doesnt have the manual for the unit any more. Unsure why though, the Breeze has been a true pleasure for the two years that Ive owned it.

@queeq- I ALMOST snapped pictures of it as I disconnected it, but I didn't end up taking any. It's in the depths of my storage unit now, but next time I visit the storage, I'll see what I can do.

Please help? Need to move a quickconnect 24kbtu minisplit asap.

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