Crossing back to Jack Herer

Hi
I've got an old Jack Herer cut. Strong, big producer and generally impressive, it is one of the best things I've ever had.

This is the JH cut at 8 weeks in coco:



Last summer I pollinated it with a Mextiza male, and I got a lot of seeds out of it. Mextiza is a very unique stinky sativa hybrid, and the reason I choose this plant to perform the pollination was its effect: it is very similar to the sativa-leaning stone of the Jack Herer, although its production is much lower.

After growing the seeds, I can say they have resulted in very very homogeneous pretty plants who produced very good weed, with an effect very similar to the original JH and Mextiza plants.

These are the plants after just after 38 days at 12/12:



After getting that great result, I thought about backcrossing a male back to the Jack Herer in order to get plants more similar to the Jack Herer cut. Although I know it is impossible to reach the perfection of the original F1 cut, the good results I'm getting encourage me to make a try. I also know that continuous back crossing leads to worse plants, so I plan to do it once or maybe twice.

What do you think?

Cheers

Very Nice project u Got going there. Which smells seems like to be the most dominating? Also are u only looking for only a F-1 look a like Cut, or have u found a very speciel hybrid like bigger yield or speciel Terp ? I had the lime sweet mexitiza pheno, which i could imagend we go perfect with Jack H, let me know u ideas ��

Personally, I think you'd be smart to find a few males (at least 3) & a few females (at least 3) and make F2s. Search through the F2s to find your male for back crossing.

This involves a bit more work but I think your results will be better & more stable for your desired traits.

You may as well make a back cross while you've got the F1 pollen flying. It certainly won't hurt anything.

MJPassion said:

Personally, I think you'd be smart to find a few males (at least 3) & a few females (at least 3) and make F2s. Search through the F2s to find your male for back crossing.

This involves a bit more work but I think your results will be better & more stable for your desired traits.

You may as well make a back cross while you've got the F1 pollen flying. It certainly won't hurt anything.

Click to expand...

Hi
First of all, thank you for your ideas.

For what I have learnt, the best way to make seeds that have most of the JH characteristics starts by crossing and selecting in the JH75 generation JHx(JHxM). There are good reasons for that, and in fact I've observed that many seedbanks do that indeed.

The first F1 shows Mextiza traits I want to get rid of. Making F2 out of them and then selecting males is not just a bit more work, it takes choosing both male and female from the F1, crossing them, and then starting male selection again. I understand that there can be good reasons for doing that, but for an amateur breeder like myself, it would take a lot of work and time.

I've already chosen some males for the back cross, I think I'll get a nice result in the JH75. If I don't, I can grow some more males and start a new selection.

I want to see what I get from the JHx(JHxM) and then we'll see where this path leads. It is important to note that I'm not in the search of stable seeds, since I don't intend to sell them. I don't mind some variability, in order to have the possibility to choose the best females in a future where my JH cut doesn't exist anymore.

I'll be uploading pictures of the whole process, so we can join some experience.

Thanks for your thoughts

Carraxe, I am also working to bring back Jack Herer to what it was. I am crossing Jack Herer to a very old Apollo 13, already a lot of Jack H genetics in Apollo 13. I purchased the last pack of Jack H that Seeds Boutique had and I will first make F2's of these so I can save some original lines. I will use clones to make these crosses and cross the Jack H. x Apollo 13 and also Apollo 13 x Jack H. I wish that I had saved Jack Herer many years ago, like I have saved so many strains but I have not. I will do what I can do to save what I can now. Later, Stash

Hi
I've uploaded dome pictures of the Jack Herer Mextiza cross at 7 weeks. It matures fast! I'll probably chop some of them at just 8 weeks. I expected to find the progenie very influenced from the Mextiza but I've found plants quite similar to the Jack's bud structure, so I think it will converge quickly. Smells are intermediate, better than the one from the Jack and milder than the Mextiza honey-lime stink.



@Stash, now that you talk about your cut, I've to say that I have had different Jack Herer selected cuts, coming from different selections. This one is not the hazey tasty one, and doesn't smell much. It is a pity I've lost other phenotypes I'd love to make a seed version as well. Anyway, this one is stronger and more productive, and I'm sure the seeds I'm making will be very useful.

I'll upload full plant pictures in the days to come, so you can see their structure. They are lovely.

Cheers

As MJPassion allready said, better to study/backup your F1 first to known what to do, to achieve your goals.
The F2 and the F3 will produce interresting combinations and inform you on the results of the cross you've made at least by the stats.
From this point, you get a radar of what you're doing and you can isolate the wanted specimens in separate lines to achieve your goals.

But hell, just twos points :

1) You don't have to sell your seeds to make a great hybrid for yourself. And it always value the efforts. In breeding the time is the key of the quality, and your competitive advantage (as amateur) on a common company is there. You have the time that they virtually no longer have since 2000.
C'mon, don't tell me that one little SOG clone or twos in a corner (producing at least 100 calibrated seeds each) is pharaonic to achieve.

2) Throw these absolutes rules from your mind. The more absolute, the more irrationnal.

the best way to make seeds that have most of the JH characteristics starts by crossing and selecting in the JH75 generation JHx(JHxM). There are good reasons for that, and in fact I've observed that many seedbanks do that indeed.

Click to expand...

The true best way, one wich give solid results (like the Jack Herer that we are numerous to love), is to known what you're doing first in taking in count the F1/F2 offspring. You have better to BX with a F2 specimen wich is allready like you want (JH dom with traits you like) that with a random F1 specimen in heterosis.

It's not the "75" that will give you what you exactly want, but your own selection and its stats. The case where a blind BX don't print the reference's cut in offspring is more current that the reverse, at the moment you don't lower your goals to what you can get in rolling a couple of dices. You don't stack the JH on an hybrid with BX, you pass the JH trough the hybrid. It mean that it is not "lost less", no matter how many time you BX.

I also know that continuous back crossing leads to worse plants, so I plan to do it once or maybe twice.

Click to expand...

Thats what happend when you do the things without caring about dominance and recessivity of your selection. No matter if it's in a BX project or not.

If you backcross your line with a cut allready "washed" and poor genetically (high pressure selection), your margin is little.
If you backcross your validated recessive line with a rich cut, this false rule just don't apply.

3) Today, when seedbanks share some "god secrets" it's generally a matter of marketing or to fool the others competitors. Like "in our advanced lab", the lab being generally a dozen of "amateur breeders", like you said, wich produce the seeds in the exact same conditions that you and me.

Last but not least, if you don't feel the necessity to spend time and efforts on a plant ... that's just not the good one.

Nice thread @Carraxe!!!

What about the smoke?! Did you find the incense pheno from this Jack!?

thanks and good luck whit your projects!

I gotta agree with MJPassion. Also, don't ignore the possibilities that will present themselves in the F2 Generation. You may just find some very interesting plants aside from males to backcross with. I've done a lot of pollen chucking over the last few years and the F2 generation is where you start seeing really interesting combinations pop up

The males

The males

This is one of the males I've selected. Finally I chose 2 out of them, but they are very similar morphologically.




Color is darker than Mextiza, but the stretch is very noticeable and they start flowering at less than two weeks. Jack stretches less, but takes more time to start flowering.

Cheers

Jack Mextiza Harvest

Jack Mextiza Harvest

Hi
After 8 weeks I couldn't stand it anymore and I chopped 4 of them. Their structure is very sativa, with long stems and internodes. But the flowers are quite compact, so it appears to be a a quite dominant property, luckily. Some plants resemble the original Jack hard bud.



Cheers

looking good! interesting cross, do you have plans for further f-generations?

non said:

looking good! interesting cross, do you have plans for further f-generations?

Click to expand...

Hi
Not really planning F2 since I have access to both the original JH clone and a lot of Mextiza seeds. And they are the real thing. But if i did, these seeds would probably be very nice with just a little work of selection. I guess I should give them to somebody who wanted to work a little.

I have already pollinated the JH. I really want to see what plants these seeds will produce, I bet they will be very similar to JH in bud formation and production but they'll have some Mextiza smell.

Cheers

StRa said:

Nice thread @Carraxe!!!

What about the smoke?! Did you find the incense pheno from this Jack!?

thanks and good luck whit your projects!

Click to expand...

The clone I have is not an incensey one. Very subtle smell to cedar or something similar. The guy who gave it to me called it an indica selection. I had a different one years ago that was that kind of hazey incense, really delicious taste and smell. But it wasn't as strong as this one.

I guess you could find very different phenos in the old Sensi dutch seeds, and some of them were great, that's why they are still circulating.

Cheers

After pollination

After pollination

That's how the pollinated branch looks today. Seeds will be totally mature in a month.

Jack's bud is much harder than I though.




Cheers

Jack Herer Mextiza

Jack Herer Mextiza

Hi
I've just cut the seeded Jack Herer. I've found some mature seeds but not as many as I'd like, so I'll probably pollenize again in months to come. I bet these seeds will be great.

Some very interesting fact: for some reason, the F1 plants from Jack Herer and Mextiza are much stinkier than any of the original ones. The nice, but not strong, sweet honey-lime in Mextiza merges with the very subtle cedar-varnish smell from the Jack to give a much more intense and refreshing cedar-lime smell.

I have dried buds of all of them in front of me. It is really a change.

Cheers

Sometimes the result is better than both parents so you might find that your plans change and try and stabilize some new characteristics

Please post some bud pictures !

Bud shots

Bud shots

leet said:

Sometimes the result is better than both parents so you might find that your plans change and try and stabilize some new characteristics

Please post some bud pictures !

Click to expand...

First, some Jack Mextiza. Hybrid-shaped buds from two different plants



The big one is an outdoors Mextiza. Bud formation is very different.


Jack's bud is very compact and hard, I'll post some pictures when I have some stash. Something special.

Cheers

keep going

keep going

I've just put a dozen of seeds in soil. They are (JHxMextiza)xJH or just JH75%. I'm curious about the results.

I will also choose a male to make the next backcross (JH82%)

Cheers

nice. curious too what will come up. keep us posted