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Potency Testing, Terpene Profiling, & Accuracy?

high life 45

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With recreational cannabis laws passing in Colorado and Washington, and Oregons new dispensary law. There is more public "testing" and "profiling" of our favorite plant then ever done before.

There are several different methods to "test" cannabis, and not all are equal, or give the same results. We will get more into that later Im sure. For starters Id like to talk about the elephant.

The elephant is the variance in data collected by these tests.

For example, a well known lab in Washington, Analytical 360's highest THC score is 23.91%..

I only recently started working with dispensaries and had some of my flowers come back at 25.1% from a different test lab.

I saw someone in the PDX area with results of 94% thc from a floral and blonde colored GSC wax... logically I could not agree that only 6% of the sample was waxes and terpenes and shortly came to the conclusion that the results may have been inaccurate.

Not to long after that I met with a biochemist who is a great extractor and makes some of the best concentrates I have ever seen. I asked him about it and he said the testing was not easy. He mentioned that he had a GCMS at his disposal and could not get the same result twice, or even a general consistency amongst results. Even with a concentrate.

Recently in the gsc thread budelight shared a link that brought me to this

http://smokesignalsthebook.com/projectcbd/news/the-ring-test-oshaughnessys#sthash.yGTSSCSO.dpbs


It seems that norml and project cbd did a "ring test" and to nobodies suprise quite a few labs were producing results that were "inaccurate" (padded?)

At some point I plant to take samples to all the local labs and compare the results to eachother. Sure it feels good to think, I tested at 25.1% but I would rather have undoubtedly accurate results, vs "impressive" ones.

Obviously as a grower or dispensary, its easy to want to return to the lab with the highest results. As a patient or breeder and perhaps someone in the medible business, accuracy might be greater than...lets just say "padded" results.

Feel free to Post your results, share your thoughts on testing and profiling, the various methods of chromatography, and labs accuracy etc.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
If you want to talk about accuracy, reproducibility etc. of plant analyses just talk to a phytopharmacy or phytochemistry lab :D .
Nowadays, every douche with some spare coins can get an HPLC, GC or MS but it takes a good education and most of all a lot of experience to really be able to run the tests properly. It is not like Abby from NCIS who just has to switch it on, press start and get the whole thing done in 5 min. ;) .

BTW: That crap with 20% THC really 'turns my bile'... No cannabis plant contains 20% THC of its dry matter! It is very important to state the % of what: extract, total cannabinoids or total compounds detected (and obviously with which detection method cause most aren't really quantitative).
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Couldn't agree more!! Glad to see this being discussed. We as growers/processors need to help these standards be set.....

Heres a link to a great lecture from Jeff Raber of The Werc Shop. It might help put these high test results under a little more scrutiny

http://humboldt-dspace.calstate.edu/handle/2148/1628

Is there a portable or small home version(affordable!!! Not $1400+) to test percentage???

That would be a definite market to get into!!!!!
 

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
No cannabis plant contains 20% THC of its dry matter!

Plant no buds yes. Even buds in Japan are up to 22.6%. It's amazing. The attachment shows the cannabinoid content of NL coffeehouse products 2000-04. As a control, the results from foreign labs were compared also. There were slight differences, that's the point of this here. THC vs price they paid is also graphed. As the percentage of THC gets higher, a 10% variation in results is more obvious than it used to be. Not that anyone can disagree that sample preparation and technique is important.
 

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high life 45

Seen your Member?
Veteran
Couldn't agree more!! Glad to see this being discussed. We as growers/processors need to help these standards be set.....

Heres a link to a great lecture from Jeff Raber of The Werc Shop. It might help put these high test results under a little more scrutiny

http://humboldt-dspace.calstate.edu/handle/2148/1628

I couldnt agree more!

Great link.

If you want to talk about accuracy, reproducibility etc. of plant analyses just talk to a phytopharmacy or phytochemistry lab :D .
Nowadays, every douche with some spare coins can get an HPLC, GC or MS but it takes a good education and most of all a lot of experience to really be able to run the tests properly. It is not like Abby from NCIS who just has to switch it on, press start and get the whole thing done in 5 min. ;) .

BTW: That crap with 20% THC really 'turns my bile'... No cannabis plant contains 20% THC of its dry matter! It is very important to state the % of what: extract, total cannabinoids or total compounds detected (and obviously with which detection method cause most aren't really quantitative).

I agree we need trained professionals running these machines, and interpreting the data. And not all data is as "solid" as others.

Some of the HPLC are leagues above the cheaper GCMS, and TLC, etc that many places use, im sure it goes both ways.

Cannabis is getting pretty potent and covered in trichomes these days. Whats availble in central Europe might be different from the West Coast of the USA, where cannabis is legal medically. Not saying my results werent padded, but I am not in shock from seeing 20%+ results..

Is there a portable or small home version(affordable!!! Not $1400+) to test percentage???

That would be a definite market to get into!!!!!

Look into TLC aka thin layer chromatography, its very similar to PH test strips.
 

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
@Joe
Maybe I'm blind, maybe it's really not there but I couldn't find a reference to '% of what'. Not even which sort of %, is it by weight, mol, TIC, vol. or whatever (pretty sloppy work that)?
Did you find it?

Even with a bud; How should that work with the 20% THC? That'll mean, 40% by weight of the buds should be pure trichome heads! Seems ridiculous to me... but then again, I haven't seen such a bud with my own eyes ;) .
With normal plants one gets kind of 5-20% 'organic solvent extractable' matter so I suppose that cannabis should be similar.
 

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran

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shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
If you want to talk about accuracy, reproducibility etc. of plant analyses just talk to a phytopharmacy or phytochemistry lab :D .
Nowadays, every douche with some spare coins can get an HPLC, GC or MS but it takes a good education and most of all a lot of experience to really be able to run the tests properly. It is not like Abby from NCIS who just has to switch it on, press start and get the whole thing done in 5 min. ;) .

BTW: That crap with 20% THC really 'turns my bile'... No cannabis plant contains 20% THC of its dry matter! It is very important to state the % of what: extract, total cannabinoids or total compounds detected (and obviously with which detection method cause most aren't really quantitative).

Good concept.......Results are user input...so sabotage is eminent!
http://budgenius.com/search.html? cmd=search&query=&submit=Strain+ID+Search
 
I'm gonna try theWercShop.com for my stuff. I've seen their posters in a dispensary and they are very informative. For ppl that have not seen what they produce, it's like those "Nutrition Facts" on every package of food but it has the breakdown of terpenes, CBD and THC as well as pesticide residues and mold results. Pretty cool. Having it tested makes it that much more valuable in terms of donations or transfers because you can point to something besides the smell.
 

symbiote420

Member
Veteran
Are we all the "stupid" stoners they think!?! I think not! So when did THC test % become the deal breaker? I thought good smoke was good smoke, if I smoke a j and it flattens me should I disregard it and call it garbage because I find the "test" comes back low? I've personally smoked meds that had lower THC scores like 15% that creamed other strains testing 22% or more .........they need a more accurate way of testing strains overall potency because THC ain't the only cannabiniod that adds to the high!

And I agree, they need approved techs running these machines ...I know of a few cats here that have their own tester and they use it for their dispo and to help choose the strains they enter in local Cups too! A better test and testers are needed right along with better laws and growers!
 

Ras Mason

Active member
Veteran
people focus way too mutch on thc level (and or ratio) and forget the terpenes and other cannabinoids and re-combinations thereof. All of these have an effect on the "effect"...lol.
 

OLDproLg

Active member
Veteran
WELL SAID^^

THC is not all that matters by far...........
Cool to see how the hand held one works,seen Bodhi got 1 already!..an my friend pistils!
they gotta wait a year though.....
Gonna wait till pricing comes down,but you can get it at 199.00 i think
still.....tests are pending with calculation help from buyers,at that price.
Regular they will be 399.00 so i hope they work well,we'll see soon!!!!!
Lg
 
I just came back from the cannabis cup. talked to werc shop. 2 days and $200 + 2.5g sample gets you terpene profile thc thca cbds and pesticide/mildew. I'm gonna try them and another lab to compare.
 

lr3

Member
Is there any low-cost cannabinoid testing in SoCal? SCL charges over $80 per test, drops to $70 if you buy 5 test (still high).

A place in Rhode Island only charges $30/test, and if you purchase in bulk (10 tests) the cost was half that, $15 per test.

Does anyone know of a more reasonably priced test lab in SoCal or somewhere else where I could mail the samples to be tested?
 
theWercShop.com does cannabinoid testing

from erby@thewercshop.com to me:
We tried calling earlier today but we didn't get a hold of anyone. Anyways, to make things easiest samples can be dropped off at the MCC Directory at 44 N. Mentor Ave. Pasadena CA 91106. They have a sign on the sidewalk showing where they are located in the back courtyard area. Please have your Dr. Rec with you and a copy (if you can't make a copy they can when you drop your sample off.) or you can e-mail the copy to us at this email address. Sample sizes are 1g for potency and 2.2g for the full screen with flowers, 0.5g potency and 1.7g for full screen of concentrates and for edibles one packaged piece (only can do cannabinoids and microbiological screen on foods) and then we need 2-4 grams if it's a butter or oil (like olive etc.) sample. If you have any questions please let us know Thank you.
 

bobblehead

Active member
Veteran
I've had multiple samples tested from the same crop, and they came back fairly close. I think accuracy is going to depend on the technician and the quality and maintenance of the equipment used.

% total cannabinoids isn't % thc, or % thca which is really what's getting you high...

Personally 25% weed gets me way more high than any 15% weed I've ever smoked. I don't think the numbers are everything... but they're significant. I hated that I couldn't grow buds that tested at 25%... so I changed what I was doing, and my quality improved which was quantified with lab tests. They don't lie imo.
 
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