My first attempt at cloning, learning the hard way...

My first attempt a cloning was looking good, but it has gone haywire. After reading and watching videos on the subject I was ready to execute. Big plastic transparent storage boxes, 60W 5000K CFL, peat moss/perlite medium, IBA hormone, distilled water, pruning shears, blades, Isopropyl alcohol, cotton swabs and gloves…I was ready. Took the first 13 cuttings off my Mozambiquen poison sativa african landrace two months into veg early in the morning and quickly placed them in a glass of distilled water, their ends submerged. Came inside where I had everything set up in order to transplant them immediately. One by one I pruned the bottom fan leaves, trimmed the tips of the ones near the new growth, took the 45 degree cut below the lower 3rd node and gently scraped the bottom inch of the stem before splitting it down the middle with the same blade. I had seen several videos where people emphasized to scrape gently, including Jorge Cervantes, and I imitated what I saw. I'm not sure if this was the problem, because they seemed to scrape in such a gentle fashion that when I did it nothing came off, I basically caressed the outer layer with the blade but nothing came off.After scraping, I dipped them into the hormone powder and shook the excess off and immediately inserted them in the medium and pressed the medium to ensure proper surface contact. Into the bin they went, the pots laying in small trays where the water that drained from moistening the medium was collected. I set the CFL on top of the bin and monitored them daily. The next day the looked very vigorous, sun salutation on every one of the cuttings and they stayed like that for the next week.I took the dome off daily for a quick inspection and on on the 5th day I started leaving it off for longer periods of time, by day 7 it was twice a day for an hour. By then I was expecting to see some lighter green color but when I compared pictures of the first day and that day they looked like they froze in time. By then I had let the water on the trays evaporate to try and promote any root growth downwards looking for water, the bottom of the pots was still wet.On day 10 I was ready to take the next round of cuttings from a a Johnny Blaze x Chem Dawg and wanted to clear the space for them so I decided to take the first round out of the bin and outside to a cart that had translucent lining so they could start getting used to the outdoors. It was during sunrise but in less than a few minutes I came back to realize they were wilting fast. I took them back inside and put them inside the bin, they bounced back. I watered them with mycorrhiza to see if that would speed the root establishment. After all the shock some yellowing started to happen in many of the trimmed leaves but then I noticed that there was some most starting to form in a couple of the yellowing leaves, so I took them out of the bin to avoid the high humidity environment. Obviously something went wrong or this variety is just a bitch to clone. This morning I realized one of them was wilted and the branch felt soft, I decided to yank it out of the medium and realized that bacteria made the branch all slimy and it only had two half inch root hairs that had formed from within the split in the branch. I haven't taken a picture of how they look now, its a bit depressing because after so much wait and work I hate the thought of loosing them. I have her on LST and minimal cropping and all those cuts could have made a great scrog. After the whole ordeal I wiki'd cambium and realized the scraping to get to that layer is not as gentle as people put it, if nothing comes off you're not there. I am not sure if no having reached the cambium is the issue or if it has to do with the varietal itself. If anyone has experience cloning sati vas, specially african landraces I would appreciate your feedback. I have a new round of cuttings that I scraped more thoroughly in rotation to see if it makes a difference, but if it's not going to work I rather stop taking cuttings and prepare her to go in to 12/12. I appreciate your help in advance.

Can I offer some advice... Don't over complicate. First.....

Make sure where you are keeping you clones is humid and warm, you clones can't absorb water as they have no roots, so you need to keep the air humid so they don't dry out. Put a see thru bag over them water droplets should form on the Inside of the bag.

Next cut your clone and the make a small slit up the stem, splitting it in two almost for about half a inch. Then dip in clonex.

Make sure once you have taken them that they are watered in well and the soil must be packed in round the stem.

Do you have a brown Medicen bottle. The easiest way to take clones is to chop them put them in the bottle and fill it with water so the stems are submerged, change the water every couple of days. And re dip in clonex Keep it in a sunny place, remember you don't want any airflow to start with either as they will dry out.

As long as they stay moist and warm you will be ok, it's easy once you get the hang of it, and the conditions right. I take real small clones, like three inchs tall. One set of leaves.

If the stem is hard scrape the side lightly to. But main thing I'd humidity. If they ain't dead leave them alone to. Even the smallest movement can fuck em up if it's at the wrong time.

Failing that buy a aero cloner they take a few days to root almost anything it's well quick and easy

Getting any roots at all is 95% of the battle. I think your big mistake was shocking them with sunlight before they were rooted.

It's normal (and a good sign) for leaves to yellow during cloning. It's just the plant pulling nutes from the leaves so they can grow.

Sorry to break the news to you, but pure sativas are usually the easiest plants to clone.

EDIT: What temp are they at?

Psyco G said:

Do you have a brown Medicen bottle. The easiest way to take clones is to chop them put them in the bottle and fill it with water so the stems are submerged, change the water every couple of days. And re dip in clonex Keep it in a sunny place, remember you don't want any airflow to start with either as they will dry out.

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I agree with virtually everything Psyco G said, but just for clarification- are you saying your clones take root in water? I've never tried that, so I'm curious.

To the OP- I use rusty scissors, no cloning gel or powder and rock wool, and have a pretty good success rate. That's not to say I don't have more to learn. For instance, I was not aware of the idea of scraping the cutting or splitting it. So I'll have to check that out.

Not to sound patronizing, but cloning is pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Tomato plants and lots of plants will replicate using the methods we call cloning.

Jellyfish said:

I agree with virtually everything Psyco G said, but just for clarification- are you saying your clones take root in water? I've never tried that, so I'm curious.

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It's Smokinrav's technique from OG. http://www.marijuana-ro.com/grow-fa...-smokinrav-s-simple-water-cloning-method.html

I'll have to take a look at that Smokinrav's technique, basically the amber bottle should protect roots from sunlight, which is a nice spin on the flower vase technique. I'm in the caribbean its warm year round and relative humidity is always pretty high.At this point I've seen people mention that some OG's are difficult to clone, I've also read people saying some sativas being almost impossible to clone. It's my first attempt and until I can do a comparison with the new batch of mozambiquen's and Johnny Blaze x Chem Dawg I can't really assume anything. I know for a fact that their stems/ branches are somewhat different in structure and texture. I think the biggest mistake was I got impatient, but I also read someone had some cuttings in the same stalled conditions for almost a month and every time they were put outside the dome they would start wilting. If that is the case I would just start her on 12/12 rather that keep taking cuttings that won't take off.

If the only thing you change is to toss out the distilled water and use relatively low ppm tap water I'd put money on you greatly improving your results.

I posted the link for Jellyfish and I think he knew what I meant, but I should clarify: OG=Overgrow, a grow site that went down when the owner got busted back in the early 2000s. Smokinrav was a member there.

Really inbred sativas can be hard to clone, but in general, sativas have a thinner, less woody stem, which makes them easier to clone.

I'd appreciate if you kept me posted on how the Mozambiquen Poison smokes. It's on my very short list of future strains.

touringfunkband said:

If the only thing you change is to toss out the distilled water and use relatively low ppm tap water I'd put money on you greatly improving your results.

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I roll with plain tap water and have alright results.....

Sounds like you jumped the gun.....Taking them outside too early.
But if they seem to be recovering, well than that should be fine.....Just give the cuttings more time to germinate there root system......I like to use clear plastic cups....So I can see the root development.

After the cuttings have established there roots...I like to give them a good week under the lights before trying to harden them off outdoors.

I will take a pic of them tomorrow and I'll show you guys. I still hope they pull through,it's a pretty depressing sight in comparison to how they looked in the pics I posted…
What exactly do you mean by low ppm tap water touringfunkband? for some reason the tap water here is a bit over chlorinated, not overly hard, although the distilled water machine for the labs in my school seem to collect lots of calcium, but not iron.

The method I use takes about 14 - 21 days, not fast but I plan for it. It's about 100% also. I use distilled water with Pure Blend @ half strength given for seedlings. I use 15 ml (1 tbsp) glass vials and switch the water out as needed. As soon as I see root bumps on the stem I transplant to 3 oz plastic cups with coco. Keep the coco moist, have patience, and you'll be golden.

As for lighting I keep them on the margins of a 220 w Pl-l rig. Good luck.

I've used tap in a glass with good success rates a few times. It's the most simple method.
Put your cuts in a glass of water changed out daily or every other day. Once roots begin forming, transplant to the medium of your choice.
Chlorinated tap works two ways...
Chlorine is needed for photosynthesis so at this stage I have no probs using it.
Chlorine also keeps pathogens at bay (it does not eliminate them but puts the balance in your favor).
Some folks even use pool shock (Calcium Hypochlorite) in their cloners.

I've had the best success rates using a cloning machine (EZ-Cloner) & tap water.
You don't have to buy one, however. You can make your own for nearly free if you have an air pump.
Plenty of tutorials here at IC.

Not sure how the laws work for ya down there but I would suggest picking up a grow guide of some sort (if they're not restricted literature).
My fave is Ed Rosenthals (Oaksterdam U text) MJ Growers Handbook but just about anything recent will contain the basics you need.

I discovered a thread about rooting in unchlorinated water - how hard it can be, because fungus can destroy the clones.

I thought I'd pass it on, can't hurt.

http://goo.gl/HoUKR9

I read it myself after I had a buncha clones die on my well water.

practice, practice, practice... we all been through it. hardest part when you are a noob is to resist checking it every 5 minutes hoping to see roots!

Weedninja said:

It's Smokinrav's technique from OG. http://www.marijuana-ro.com/grow-fa...-smokinrav-s-simple-water-cloning-method.html

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Smokinrav was a mentor on og.....As was I......

frankly this really isnt a good way to clone.....

the water thing seems to eventually work but its normally very slow....

my assumption is....not enough oxygen for rooting vigorously...

One of the things tropicanna does not mention are temps.....

The link in my thread is all about temps.....

I dont know where your temps were......

But clones like 80 degrees maybe a bit more

sort of a bit above where many folks growrooms are....

70- dgrees rooting is very slow.....

One further comment on your techniqe.... sorry this is in pieces but Im sorta busy....

After Im done making the cut from the mom.....( I dont feel it matters....45 degrees or not)

When I scarify the stem I take a slice off from one side only making a wedge....

the idea is to expose the cambrium layer where the roots are borne....

Its the same concept for grafting a apple tree....making that wedge shaped cut.....


That wedge cut out....is maybe 25% of the stem


It would be not unlike the first cut when you are trying to sharpen a wooden pencil with a pocket knife....


I have found when you split the stem it more likely to go bad......

cloning is simple...you need warm temps,you need some humidity, you need a moist not overly wet medium,you need weak lighting...rooting hormones and very mild ferts help too..perlite is prob the easiest medium for newbees...yeehaw

A thread I started a while ago may give you some ideas...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224838

When my leaves turn yellow and get lighter it is a sure sign the baby is eating its reserves to force out roots.

I dont even use cloning gel or anything anymore o even do a slant cut, I cut em and stick em in wet cubes and take off a little leave area to match up to the size of the clone then leave em and keep em wet.

If I notice any wilting in the beginning right off I just trim a little more leaf off.