Coco/Perlite top drip run to waste House and Garden Van De Zwaan nutrients

pico · Aug 17, 2007

Mr. Nevermind- I have never used Canna nutrients, but I have heard they are similar. Yes you mix in A then add the B. I think H&G is cheaper than canna but I am not positive on that. The Humboldt Wholesale website has a week by week feeding chart that I am doing exactly as it says. I think a number of people are getting the free package and I bet you we will start seeing some more H & G grows on IC.

gregor mendel- I have used floranova at different strengths. Lately I have been setting people up with this good organic soil and 2-3ml per gallon of floranova every watering. That has been working very well for the people using that. I used right about the same ammount in my coco beds. I added liquid karma and floralicious plus since I had that stuff around. The other people I help out I have them on only floranova. Harvesting this week and the buds are looking fantastic.

Mr. Nevermind · Aug 17, 2007

pico said:
Mr. Nevermind- I have never used Canna nutrients, but I have heard they are similar. Yes you mix in A then add the B. I think H&G is cheaper than canna but I am not positive on that. The Humboldt Wholesale website has a week by week feeding chart that I am doing exactly as it says. I think a number of people are getting the free package and I bet you we will start seeing some more H & G grows on IC.

gregor mendel- I have used floranova at different strengths. Lately I have been setting people up with this good organic soil and 2-3ml per gallon of floranova every watering. That has been working very well for the people using that. I used right about the same ammount in my coco beds. I added liquid karma and floralicious plus since I had that stuff around. The other people I help out I have them on only floranova. Harvesting this week and the buds are looking fantastic.

Thanks bro. I didnt get mine from Humboldt wholesale. I got mine from plant it earth for free. But thats due to them messing up an order and throwing in free shit to make me happy. Ill be careful when mixing em and use their schedule. Though i have tried the canna a & b nutes and am loving em.

Nevermind

420cali · Aug 18, 2007

so i got a thick sweatshit, tied a shirt on my face and put on big rubber gloves and sprayed them with i think about 2.5 ml, it was hard to tell with cause the shits so milky but they look good, well see in the morning

whataboutbob · Aug 18, 2007

pico said:
Actually that was the wrong anti siphon devise all together. I still don't know what would work for this situation. I don't have a problem because my reservoir is lower than my drippers so I don't get a siphon. Hopefully someone else can pop in with the correct fitting.

As far as sediment, if you are using open 1/4" lines the filter should do the job just fine. With little dripper ends you might be able to clog them with sandy particles, but I don't really know.

House and Garden is a chemical fert, yes. I have been really liking it. Liking it enough that I am thinking about switching over to twelve 600w lights and six 3x6 tables with dripper setup exactly like this. That would fit really well in this room. Currently I have 1000w ballasts running in the rest of this room. Hell, give me a phone and I will jump out of it.

The pump is pretty close to silent.

Thanks Pico.................Don't be jumpin out of phones man...........lmfao
good thread/good info............I'll be back!
Later..............BOB

pico · Aug 21, 2007

day 47

day 47

Well I went on a trip for a week and the drip system did its job. I of course ****ed up this grow like I do every time. Not totally screwed, but I always leave out a piece of the pie. This time I forgot to use my scrog screens. I am finding this Tabby strain(trainwreck?) can not hold itself up very well. Even in veg the plants will topple over. With the house and garden nutrients they are flat on their backs. I only got about a week and a half of the shooting powder in there before the buds were too big for the plants. I flushed for 5 days and harvested right at 7 weeks. I would like to take this strain 8 weeks so next time I will remember my scrog screens. I did also chop because I started seeing some bananas.

Must be related to trainwreck. Every trainwreck I have ever grown hermies out towards the end of flower.

look at how everything toppled over when I was out of town. Strange thing was that most of the toppled over plants were under the hortilux bulb. All the other bulbs are from hidhut.com. The hortilux was an old bulb though.

I don't have a picture, but a couple of the drip lines to the far back plants got knocked out of position. Those plants didn't get water and died. Not a problem if you can get to all of your plants, but I can't get back in the corner to work. I noticed some coco particles can get inside the 1/4" drip lines and clog the end when you shove it down in the pot. Needs a couple of refinements but overall this sytem was very easy to work with. I have house and garden nutrients in all my systems now and it is working fantastic.

I will get some harvest pictures up in the next day or two.

Brain · Aug 21, 2007

She does look TW related. Those weak stem are something I would have tried to fix if I crossed it. Yeild looks massive, Pico. I'm enjoying the show.

clowntown · Aug 21, 2007

pico, it may be completely unrelated and a different issue altogether, but on my current grow I've noticed some weak, droopy stems when using my Canna Coco nutes with tap water, and no Cal(-Mag) supplement. I've since supplemented with Botanicare's Cal-Mag+ and the droopy stems have disappeared.

It's also very interesting how the bulbs made that difference. Would a less intense bulb cause weak, droopy stems? Or do you think it is possibly more related to the different spectrum produced by the different bulbs? :chin:

This Tabby strain... just curious, is it worth the late herming? Or was this an isolated incident on this run?

Anyways, awesome grow and show regardless; seems I'm learning something new on every page of every thread you have out here. Thanks for sharing the details and showing us how it's done.

:respect:

pico · Aug 21, 2007

Brain- We will see about massive

. The buds are much bigger than using floranova with the same coco and strain. Hard to guess my yield because of early harvest again and losing some plants due to drippers and falling over. But the bud is great quality and if i can get all of the plants looking like the best of them on this table then it truely will be a massive harvest.

clowntown- My tabbby plants growing with floranova had the same problem with falling over. Do you happen to know the NPK values for H&G compared to Canna? I know that all the plants I have used H&G on are very healthy, never tried canna.

I also wonder if the bulb problem was from weak intensity or bad spectrum. I really have no idea. Then you could also wonder if it was because those buds got bigger and weighed the plant down more. But I don't think that was the case.

This is only the second time I have flowered out the tabby. Last run I had to harvest around 6 weeks because of powdery mildew in the room. That was fixed by the Santa Fe 100 pint dehumidifier I now have. I am looking at the bud now from that run and I don't see any bananas. The bud is very good. Gets you pretty stoned, has lots of crystals, smells good. People really like it. It flowers out very fast which is a plus for some things. We will see about yield. I think it will be worth it as long as the bananas don't start pollenating other things in my garden.

Thanks for the kind words man. I am learning right along side everyone and just documenting my journey.

meduser180056 · Aug 21, 2007

Damn those plants got a lil unruly while you were away. LOL

Looks like a great harvest even though they fell over.

If it is trainwreck, trainwreck is known to hermie late in flower. It looks similiar to TW that's for sure. Trainwreck also is the type of plant that needs support.

I'm surprised some of you 1/4 drip lines got clogged when you shoved em in to the pots. I'm gonna have to go check mine now. It's a pain in the ass to check all the dripper sites when they are totally overgrown and the drip only runs for 30 seconds not enough time to check all the lines. Blah guess I should do it just in case.

That outdoor is sweet! Is that a pic from your medical garden tour?

pico · Aug 21, 2007

meduser-I noticed on one of the clogged lines that it was a small piece of perlite. It isn't coming through the particle filter and lines, it gets lodged in there when i jam the feed line down in the coco/perlite.

The first grow I ever had was with trainwreck and it hermied out on me late in flower.

I would say if your pots are wet then your lines are fine. I could tell some of my pots were dry but I couldn't reach them. I want a bigger space with tables on wheels so I can pull tables out and work with them.

Those are some of the plants in my medical garden. I would like to show some of the pictures of the other gardens I saw, but I don't think I should be posting other peoples gardens.

Guest · Aug 22, 2007

Hey pico,

Man, I don't know what to say. WOW, the garden is doing awesome and those outside trees. WOW. You sure do know what your doing over there. Great job. Smart move with the screening.
Take care,
BG

clowntown · Aug 22, 2007

The NPK on my Canna Coco bottles read 4-0-1 for A, and 1-4-2 for B.

From what I could find, H&G's Coco A is 8-0-0 and B is 2-4-10.

5-4-3 vs 10-4-10 :chin:

Quite different ratios. From a quick search I can't seem to find the NPK rating of H&G's "Top Booster" product, or of the Bud XL.

I haven't been successful in getting a response back on the free sample from Humboldt Wholesale, yet. I would have loved to try out their line and compare it to Canna since the H&G line appears to be a bit less expensive than the Canna. Oh well, their loss.

pico · Aug 22, 2007

Did you send your address to Humdoldt Wholesale? They didn't actually email me a response, just sent me a package after I requested and gave shipping info.

I think the budxl is just a late flowering enzyme product and no npk value. The Top Booster is just PK 13/14 with some extra iron. You only use the top booster for 3 days. The Shooting powder is their bloom booster you use for 3 weeks. I will see if I can find the values for that stuff.

That sure is a big difference in NPK values for canna/H&G.

GDW- Thanks man, I try and pretend I have things under control

jocat · Aug 22, 2007

Hey Pico, Iv'e been following your grow journey and got hooked on trying top feed coco, run to waste, with canna stuff, i am testing some different mixes from striaght coco to 50/50 coco perelite, to 50/50 coco hydroton, one with both perelite and hydrotron with the coco, and of course iv'e got some questions, can i mix a weeks worth of nutes and let them sit in the res without a mixing pump or an airstone or something? just seems weird to have a still barrel full of nutes, also want to say thanx for the great information your sharing, iv'e read through alot of grow posts, enjoy your style alot! J

pico · Aug 22, 2007

Thanks jocat, sounds like you have your hands full of coco. House and Garden advises against using any sort of air stone in their nutrient reservoirs. I had all my reservoirs sitting still this whole grow and they worked great. I don't know if canna reccomends not using stones or not, it would probably say on their feed chart.

jocat · Aug 22, 2007

hey Pico something else i forgot to ask.... I starteds all my girls in FF ocean forest and had them in 1 gal pots before i transplanted into the coco mixes, am watering with canna a & b @10 mls pr G, tree times pr day and once at night till i see a bit of runoff, still dialing in the watering times, so anyway here's the questions: will the soil to coco be a proplem? and with the run to waste system only giving a little runoff should i flush with h2o every week or something? thanx again Pico, J

clowntown · Aug 22, 2007

I'm not pico, but I'll try to do my best to answer some of that while pico is away.

H&G strongly recommends you do NOT use an airstone. I haven't seen anything from Canna discouraging airstones, but I don't use them and never had problems when I pre-mixed large amounts.

Canna does recommend that you not pre-mix their CannaZym more than 10 days prior to use, however; I think the same applies with the BioBoost, but I'll have to check the label once I get home.

One way that I work around this is by pre-mixing everything else in a larger reservoir, and when I'm ready to use it, simply add CannaZym to the amount that I need. I have the "pre-mix" pH'd so that when I add CannaZym and BioBoost, it works out to the desired final pH. Of course, I'm hand-watering right now since I have different plants in different sized containers and all... just easier that way for now.

It probably won't be a big problem doing soil -> coco, but it's possible they could go through a little pH shock or whatever... I don't know.

Don't use H2O2, as it will kill the beneficial naturally-occuring fungi in the coco.

IMO you're watering too frequently... I don't see the need to water that much/often, unless of course the medium/plants are telling you otherwise.

jocat · Aug 23, 2007

Thanx for those answers clowntown, i think your right about the watering part, at least for now, maybe once they get really going more frequent waterings will be needed, what do you think about flushing every week or so, i don't have a ds meter, my water is from a well and is fairly hard, ph 7, and so far i just mixed a+b @10mls pr gal with some rizo and the ladys are happy, but don't want to run to waste as much nutrient as canna sugests, seems the flush will accomplish the same? J

clowntown · Aug 23, 2007

I can't really comment on the flushing weekly thing, as this is also my first run in coco. Prior to growing in coco, I've read about how people are flushing on a regular basis (once a week, once every two weeks, etc) to help prevent toxic salt buildups. But in my personal experience watering with a little bit of runoff (sometimes more than a little), I haven't had any problems. I think the "required flushing" idea is based on a consistently low amount of watering with little to no run-off.

It can't hurt, though. Experiment and see, and read your plants to see how they react.

I'm surprised to hear that your hard well water has a pH of 7. I was under the impression that hard water was always at least a bit on the alkaline side, due to the dissolved lime / calcium. But then again I've never had to deal with hard water, at least not while growing and pH-aware, so ...

There's a thread or two (sorry I'll look up the links later) that quotes / links some studies that were done by some organizations / people (including by Canna and Advanced Nutrients) which has shown that, especially in earlier stages of growth while the root system is still developing, a dryer (but not completely) medium promotes a stronger root system which in turn results in larger yields. It seems to make sense to me at the very least from a theoretical standpoint.

Ghost · Aug 24, 2007

free samples of H & G / Van De Zwaan...

free samples of H & G / Van De Zwaan...

I just received a response from Humboldt Wholesale on the H & G samples. They said they had gotten MANY requests lately- thanks to your posting, although they don't know where it came from. They stated that they gave away over $100,000 dollars worth at a recent hydro expo and they simply didn't have any to send to me directly. I was instructed that if I want some, that I should email them a local hydro stores address and/ or phone number and they could ship a box there. They stated they would place my name and number on the package and instruct them to call me when it arrived- yeah, right. Looks like I'm sticking with Canna... Thanks for the heads up anyway Pico!

Coco/Perlite top drip run to waste House and Garden Van De Zwaan nutrients

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