!! NEED HELP QUICK -- Nitrogen, Phosphorus ??

wildgrow · Dec 4, 2016

BT, maybe its just time to put this round to rest. Your stress level with these plants is through the roof. Maybe you can get the plants back on track, but Ive found that once they pass a certain stress threshold that sometimes it doesn't matter what you do for them, they just wont recover.

My advise is to start from scratch with a simple medium like peat+perlite or peat+coco and a simple 2 or 3 part nute regiment, perhaps some bennies/mycos for root health and nutrient uptake. Skip the fancy bud boosters and such - at least for your 1st 2-3 rounds.

I don't know anything about those lights, but I would never buy them personally. They seem weak and ineffective. You would be better served with a 6-8 bulb T5 setup.

Am I remembering correctly that your space is on the north side of your house and the lights are supplemental? If so, north light is great for an art studio but not so for growing sun-loving plants.

I can almost guarantee that deciding to start over will bring you tons of relief.

brown_thumb · Dec 4, 2016

^^^ I want to try to revive this lot and get what I can from these plants. I'll probably do just as poorly next round anyway. When I can afford to have the 315w Phillips CMH lights wired then I'll start another group in addition to this one, assuming I can keep this leaky greenhouse warm enough. If it gets too cold then I'll wait until early February to start another lot.

Slipnot · Dec 4, 2016

Mikell said:
Overwatered.

or soil way to compact and roots not breathing :biggrin:

brown_thumb · Dec 4, 2016

The current media mix is only 25 percent Victory Sea Blend with the rest being 2 parts rice hulls, 2 parts perlite and 1 part vermiculite. It drains very well but maybe the little bit of Sea Blend is holding too much water? Other people grow in soil. I don't understand why I'm failing.

Slipnot · Dec 4, 2016

brown_thumb said:
^^^ I want to try to revive this lot and get what I can from these plants. I'll probably do just as poorly next round anyway. When I can afford to have the 315w Phillips CMH lights wired then I'll start another group in addition to this one, assuming I can keep this leaky greenhouse warm enough. If it gets too cold then I'll wait until early February to start another lot.

Exactly and with the price of seeds etc it be stupid to just cull them all .
You know with such young seedlngs keep it simple with all that shit you added on top, it has probably also effected soil ph causing you issues ,
Keep it simple with a simple soil mixture at the beginning allowing seedlings to take right off , search around your area hit some garden center and buy seedling soil that will in fact germinate and grow seedlings properly .
If you have some experience then by all mean start making your own as in top soil EWC etc
But if you don't then stick with the garden center soil they tell you they can set you up even with liquid organic plant food for like 20 bucks etc

Buy a syringe to water your seedlings you better off using straight peat moss then that mixture you got going from what i can see

And look at new growth colors not older leaf issues that plant used because of over watering or ph / nutrient issue :biggrin:

brown_thumb · Dec 4, 2016

Hmm... well the new leaves look pretty darn good (I think). The older plants look pretty good too (I think) other than these are all severely stunted. I'm thinking my two major issues were overwatering and too short light cycle. I've been trying to keep my growing 'stealth' and that required a 12/12 light cycle or shorter. I've switched to 16/8 and am hoping people don't take notice before my tall fence is built.

Mikell · Dec 5, 2016

Can you raise the temperature to 65-70?

Where are these plants? Are they autoflowers?

The problem with those pots is that they restrict root growth when transplanted directly. It is likely your roots rotted with plastic walls from overwatering as well.

I would continue feeding a simple complete nutrient as wildgrow said. Unless you are completely sure, adding specific nutrients to alleviate a problem usually just makes a new one.

Calcium and nitrogen transport require healthy water movement/high transpiration. Cold, overwatered plants have poor water movement. Drooping, yellowing, followed by rusting as the condition worsens. Next up are root rot and death.

High aeration is fine for a seedling/cutting mix, but something closer to 75/25 premade soil/added aeration would be preferable from then on. From here on out try to water by pot weight. After watering to run off, lift the pot and note the weight for that size. Check each day until it feels roughly half as heavy.

brown_thumb · Dec 5, 2016

Thanks, Mikell.

I raised the temperature at the plant location to 70F but because the greenhouse is so leaky it probably fluctuates between 60-70. The pots are closely grouped together in one small area. They sit on a wire shelf so the pots have air all the way around. Once the big holes are sealed in the building the temperature will be more stable.

The strains are White Widow fem, Strawberry Kush fem, Blueberry fem, and Blue Mammoth auto.

The pots are coconut fiber and they drain and breath very well. Do you think I should transplant them all now into the 5 gallon buckets? I didn't think they were large enough to worry about transplantation.

It's been cool and damp here for several days so this is why the soil has remained damp and the roots too cool. The weather will be dryer and less cool for the next few days. Since I turned the heater up to 70F this will help to remedy the issues (I hope).

I'm not completely sure of anything. I'm REALLY BAD at this. I'm so very thankful for you generous folks willing to help me stop making a mess of my grows.

So, no I'm not sure I see a Cal/Mag deficiency. Do you think I should continue with the Emerald Harvest recommended feeding and add some Cal/Mag?

For soil mix when I transplant to the 5 gallon buckets: I tried the Victory Sea Blend straight from the bag and it stayed FAR too wet even in the summer time. In fact, I stopped watering for 6 weeks and the test meter still registered 'wet' at just 6 inches deep. So the top 3-4 inches of soil was dry to medium and everything below that was wet. Of course, this rotted the roots. So... I'm worried that (for this soil) a 25/75 mix will still be way too dense. How does a 40/60 mix sound? BTW the buckets have 5 large holes drilled in the bottom and they sit on a bed of river rock so, with the correct soil, drainage should be good.

MrBungle · Dec 5, 2016

with all the aeration in your media there is no battery (cec) nothing there to hold on to the nutes you are feeding them... your roots are suffering cause they are starving..

a good mix that I use is 80% peat/amendments 20% aeration material whether its perlite or haydite or rice hulls thats not that important

the media isnt as important either just as long as you stick with a well mixed 80/20

brown_thumb · Dec 5, 2016

Okay then, when I transplant to 5 gallon buckets I'll mix 20-25 percent fluff into the bag soil. Are these plants mature enough that I should transplant them now?

MrBungle · Dec 5, 2016

it will be a delicate procedure..

if i were to do a transplant i'd water em so the media sticks together better, then I'd cut down the side of the coco pot, and gently remove it over your transplant pot..
if all the media falls away from the roots be careful not to disturb where the stem meets the roots...drape the roots in the new pot so they arent being constricted...
fill in over the roots pat it down and if the main stem isn't standing on its own stake it...
water in your new pots and let em go under 18/6 till they are recovered..
weigh your new pots when they are fully watered when they are quite a bit lighter water again...
they will tell you when they are starting to become happy again...
you can use straight water if its going into a precharged mix, start feeding again when they recover

brown_thumb · Dec 5, 2016

Okay, so I guess I erred buying the coco fiber pots. I bought them so I could transplant without ever having to disturb the roots. So the fiber pots fail in this manor?

brown_thumb · Dec 5, 2016

The pots were completely dry so I watered with only General Organics CaMg+ at 10ml/gal. We'll soon see if that helps. Next watering in 2-3 days will be with Emerald Harvest as directed. If the cal+mag supplement helps then I'll add that to the mix from now on.

Guaranteed analysis: 1 N, 5 Ca, 1 Mg. I see this is different than 'genuine' Cal/Mag. I hope I didn't goof.

MrBungle · Dec 5, 2016

you could probably get away with them with vigorous plants... but at this point we wanna give these roots the best chance to revive

brown_thumb · Dec 5, 2016

Should I wait to water until the pots are completely dry and nearly weightless (as I did this time)? During the winter, even with the heater under the pots, that's about 2 waterings per week. In the summer that will change to 3-4 waterings per week (in the same soil) and depending on heat/humidity. When in the 5 gallon buckets I might only water once per week or two.

brown_thumb · Dec 5, 2016

Out of frustration, I nipped off the very few sick leaves. The remaining leaves look very healthy. I performed this act because I became quite pissed. To Americans, 'pissed' means angry. To Brits, 'pissed' means drunk. I'm a little of both. I realize that's a bad combination but at this moment I don't give a damn.

Levitationofme · Dec 6, 2016

I grow Sativa's 12/12 from seed. To keep the size down. I grow in a cabinet.
I don't know how well the varieties you have react to that.
Other people on forum can speak to that.

Although Im sure they will grow, perhaps that's an issue with them.

Levitationofme · Dec 6, 2016

I cut off crappy leaves. No worries

Mikell · Dec 6, 2016

Sorry, I am not always clear.

I mention nitrogen/calcium uptake to highlight how sometimes what looks like a deficiency can be the result of an excess. Adding supplements to target assumed defciencies typically compounds the symptoms.

Sorry have to dash. Avoid transplanting until healthier and don't feed any more supplements.

brown_thumb · Dec 6, 2016

It appears I may have a couple more sick leaves. So if the CaMg+ did anything it may have been bad. I don't know. Next time I water I'll resume Emerald Harvest recommendations without the CaMg+.

It's getting colder here so I'll build an insulated box around the plants tomorrow. The greenhouse isn't getting much light this time of year anyway. This will also shield the purple light from the translucent greenhouse panels so there's no longer a hurry to install the privacy fence.

!! NEED HELP QUICK -- Nitrogen, Phosphorus ??

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