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Vacuum desiccator, which one did you get and why?

OGShush

Member
I just got the 2 stage from harbor freight with the 2 year replacement plan. I had a 20% off coupon they e-mailed me so it was less than $150 dollars and next fall I get to take it back and get a new one and pay $30 more for a new replacement plan. Seems fair to me, if vacuum fails it's an hour drive to have a new one.

For the chamber I went ahead and got a Vac it Pro from ebay. We've been using it since Christmas without any problems. I chose it because it was the largest one for the price, and I was afraid I'd break one of the pyrex glass chambers because we do most of our purge over concrete floors. Keeping the pyrex dish you blow into from being dropped is enough for me thank you.

I'm kinda curious why you guys need these to hold a vacuum for two days with the vacuum turned off? Unless you have a way to control temperature in there you aren't purging anything due to the insanely high viscosity of the oil at room temperature. Once it becomes too solid for any bubbles to pop you need to reheat it or you are just wasting time IMO. Best you could get without reheating is honeycomb which seems to be an emulsion of water and BHO and tastes awful to me. It takes 3-4 trips out of the vacuum and into a toaster oven for me to get shatter every time with 14 grams or less.
 

Jibman

Member
US General Brand? I was thinking about just trying one of those for now. I have a HF store very close to me.
 

midwestHIGHS

Member
Veteran
I got a harbor frieght 2 stage 3cfm rated down to 25 microns works fine I suppose, but to be honest I wish I would have just got a jb industries or yellow jacket pump . American made tools are the way to go, fark that overseas ish.

If you do get the HF make sure to get the warranty.
 

CarefulGrower

Active member
I'm kinda curious why you guys need these to hold a vacuum for two days with the vacuum turned off? Unless you have a way to control temperature in there you aren't purging anything due to the insanely high viscosity of the oil at room temperature. Once it becomes too solid for any bubbles to pop you need to reheat it or you are just wasting time IMO. Best you could get without reheating is honeycomb which seems to be an emulsion of water and BHO and tastes awful to me. It takes 3-4 trips out of the vacuum and into a toaster oven for me to get shatter every time with 14 grams or less.

Some make wax, requires time.

Why reheat? My stainless steel chamber sits on a heat source, the oil stays at 120 degrees the entire time it is under vacuum. Vac it pro's can do similar. Only advantage to reheat i if you remove, fold (exposing different surface area), reheat, vacuum again.
 
ok a couple of things, OGSHUSH asked why you would need a chamber to hold its vacuum for 24 hours? uhhhhh why would you NOT want that??? that shows your chamber holds a vacuum and is properly sealed. a TON of guys getting the cheap chambers leave their pump running for hours. my pump runs for 1 minute, then i close the valve and the 30gs is held until i release it. I would love to hear the argument in favor of a non sealed chamber...
the vac it pro i got leaked, and the pro vac i got leaked. pro vacs customer service was horrible, and she ignored my messages after she agreed to send me a replacement "tested" lid. she said they test everything before they send it out. the vac it pro leaked as well, they weren't more helpful, i had to make a claim with ebay for them to do anything about it. they suggested i jb weld the rivits
what i learned, pay a few more dollars, and do not go with the cheaper option

also, I can control the temperature very easily, with an electric hotplate

as far as the pumps work, USA or bust. i would avoid buying cheaper pumps on ebay or amazon, once it dies you will be SOL.

here is a pic of the chamber i got.
picture.php
 

OGShush

Member
I wasn't arguing in favor of a non sealed chamber, but rather arguing that it doesn't need to hold a full vacuum for 24 hours. I'm not sure if my Vac it pro does or doesn't because I don't spend more than an hour or two purging to get shatter. Honestly I don't even bother shutting the vacuum off. I could smash it on the concrete and take it back to Harbor Freight and be back with a new one in less than an hour. There's really no incentive to take care of it. If it makes it 2 years I'll use the warranty to get a new one and purchase a new 2 year warranty, just like the girl at the counter suggested.

A hot plate will allow you to control the temperature of the BOTTOM of your oil but even the thinnest layer of oil will remain much cooler on the surface. You know how insulation works on the principal of dead air space right? How is an electric griddle going to warm the empty space above the oil inside of your vacuum chamber? It's not, that's why we all dream of a vacuum oven. That's why in the interim we use a toaster oven, because they have a fairly concise thermostat and they heat from above as well as below. In my experience the griddle method either produces shatter that waxes (starting from the top, remains shattery on bottom) or straight up honeycomb. If left long enough the butane will tunnel its way out and leave moisture behind.

I guess I'm just wondering what sort of technique people are using that requires 24 hours time and what the consistency of their final product is like.
 
I wasn't arguing in favor of a non sealed chamber, but rather arguing that it doesn't need to hold a full vacuum for 24 hours. I'm not sure if my Vac it pro does or doesn't because I don't spend more than an hour or two purging to get shatter. Honestly I don't even bother shutting the vacuum off. I could smash it on the concrete and take it back to Harbor Freight and be back with a new one in less than an hour. There's really no incentive to take care of it. If it makes it 2 years I'll use the warranty to get a new one and purchase a new 2 year warranty, just like the girl at the counter suggested.

A hot plate will allow you to control the temperature of the BOTTOM of your oil but even the thinnest layer of oil will remain much cooler on the surface. You know how insulation works on the principal of dead air space right? How is an electric griddle going to warm the empty space above the oil inside of your vacuum chamber? It's not, that's why we all dream of a vacuum oven. That's why in the interim we use a toaster oven, because they have a fairly concise thermostat and they heat from above as well as below. In my experience the griddle method either produces shatter that waxes (starting from the top, remains shattery on bottom) or straight up honeycomb. If left long enough the butane will tunnel its way out and leave moisture behind.

I guess I'm just wondering what sort of technique people are using that requires 24 hours time and what the consistency of their final product is like.

did you just start doing this? a laser heat gun lets you know what temp you are at instantly. i keep the oil in my chamber at 110-115 at all times, no issue... i can put it in my vac, take the temp at 115, then purge for over an hour, open it, gun it at the same temp. If you want honeycomb, then you have to purge for a long time, at a high vacuum.
its stupid to buy a vacuum chamber that does not hold a vacuum, bottom line.
if you want to waste your time having to return your vacuum pump after it dies thats fine. i do not, and prefer to buy quality equipment that never fails. Based on the high rate of failure, i would say its not worth the time.
If you know anything about harbor freight, you know their stuff is the crappiest of crappy. i only use their tools for jobs where they could get stolen, and would never use any at my house, as they are horrible quality
 

Kushed_

Member
It is not just having to take it back. What makes anyone think just because the cheap gauge says full vac, that it actually is?
 

CarefulGrower

Active member
...
A hot plate will allow you to control the temperature of the BOTTOM of your oil but even the thinnest layer of oil will remain much cooler on the surface. You know how insulation works on the principal of dead air space right? How is an electric griddle going to warm the empty space above the oil inside of your vacuum chamber? It's not, that's why we all dream of a vacuum oven. That's why in the interim we use a toaster oven, because they have a fairly concise thermostat and they heat from above as well as below. In my experience the griddle method either produces shatter that waxes (starting from the top, remains shattery on bottom) or straight up honeycomb. If left long enough the butane will tunnel its way out and leave moisture behind.
...

Like walt said, an Infrared laser thermometer confirms the bho (thin film) is holding 2-3 degree's colder than the hot plate on the surface, I assume it loses heat during transfer to my stainless steel vessel, as it isn't thin. The only advantage to multiple purges is to 'fold' the BHO to allow different surface area to be purged (it seemed to help), but with the tek I use these days a single purge is more than enough. Much longer hot water, much less vac.

It is not just having to take it back. What makes anyone think just because the cheap gauge says full vac, that it actually is?

Water test it. At room temp, put a bowl of water inside, vacuum to full vacuum, the water should be boiling. Water boils at 212f, at regular atmospheric conditions, at low -29hg (vacuum) water boils at room temperature. Without heat, just vacuum, the water will boil (visibly react) if your at/near full vac.

http://www.engineersedge.com/h2o_boil_pressure.htm
 

OGShush

Member
Like walt said, an Infrared laser thermometer confirms the bho (thin film) is holding 2-3 degree's colder than the hot plate on the surface, I assume it loses heat during transfer to my stainless steel vessel, as it isn't thin. The only advantage to multiple purges is to 'fold' the BHO to allow different surface area to be purged (it seemed to help), but with the tek I use these days a single purge is more than enough. Much longer hot water, much less vac.



Water test it. At room temp, put a bowl of water inside, vacuum to full vacuum, the water should be boiling. Water boils at 212f, at regular atmospheric conditions, at low -29hg (vacuum) water boils at room temperature. Without heat, just vacuum, the water will boil (visibly react) if your at/near full vac.

http://www.engineersedge.com/h2o_boil_pressure.htm

Well I won't justify walt with a response because he seems to be an asshole that can't read an entire paragraph. What I will say is that in infared thermometer isn't worth the $40 for oil making in my opinion. If you think that dot is measuring the surface of the oil and not the temp of the paper below then you're an absolute fool. Yes I have worked with a $300 unit in a lab and I'm still saying this.

As far as spending $200 extra on a pump that goes down to 5 cfm and has no warranty, yeah sorry seems pretty stupid. Like I said, 1 hour away from harbor freight round trip. $20 gas in the Chevy and I have unlimited free time. I used a harbor freight grinder 2 summers straight pouring concrete, held up just as well as the piece of shit makita. Not sure where you came up with the "high rate of failure" but after six months the only failure I see is you.

I realize water will boil at room temperature in a full vacuum. That's the main reason to use a vacuum, to lower the boiling point of water to lower than that of terpenes. The other reason being to protect the terpenes from oxidizing.

You guys don't seem to understand that the problem here lies within the thermodynamics and viscosity of the solution. If you aren't getting shatter it isn't because you need to buy a laser thermometer or a chamber that will hold a vacuum for a month, or an $800 vacuum from amazon, it's because you aren't heating from above and below. Plain and simple, end of story.

Walt, I'm going to reckon I've been doing this longer than you have if I'm not smoking honeycomb. If you're going to keep rambling on about spending extra money to get high quality shit, please explain why you don't have a vacuum oven? Why is an expensive pump and gauge and temperature gun better than the lab ware designed to do specifically what we're attempting to do?

As far as the cheap gauge goes...WHO GIVES A SHIT? It's not like I'm trying to chart a reaction and graph it against a slope representing hg/in. If it's off by 1hg/in what does it matter? It's essentially a tree falling in the woods when no one is around, don't hurt yourself thinking about it.
 

CarefulGrower

Active member
Right on. The water boiling temperatures was for Kushed, you can confirm if your cheap gauge is relatively accurate (within 1hg) for cheap.

My laser will not read my stainless steel vessel, it reflects and reads the ceiling/whatever the laser ends up on. I need to use a pile of salt to confirm the temp of the vessel instead. So yes, seeing as how my laser won't read my vessel it is measuring the oil temperature. Does it measure the surface? No, probably not but I don't claim it does. But how thin it is spread and heat transfer within the oil, I'd bet it is only a few degrees off @ 120.

I only normally need 1 pull for 20-30 minutes to get to no reaction point, more if I half ass my water baths that's when folding/reheating is needed (for me) to get the butane out. And I get shatter every time, unless I run old partially decarb'd material.
 
well og shush, ive been making it only for a few years, since 2009 so im no expert. i got my pump for $250, and it does have a 2 year warranty, ill just never have to use it. and do not go by the cfm rating, that dont mean shit, its what micron it goes down to. 15 is what i was looking for
i would say wasting money is not good, but also do not buy cheap shit. if you have to replace that pump a few times, and it costs you $20 in gas and 2 hours of drive time, that for sure aint free.
i do not own a vacuum oven because i dont make much oil anymore, and i did not want a used one, as i would not trust the chemicals used before hand. Im not going to spend thousands on something alot of people are have trouble with the low temp settings. if you are doing thin film purges, then you do not need heat from the bottom and top.
you said you wouldnt justify me with a response, but you did anyways.

anyone that buys and uses alot of tools knows the quality harbor freight provides.
 

hammalamma

Member
Veteran
well og shush, ive been making it only for a few years, since 2009 so im no expert. i got my pump for $250, and it does have a 2 year warranty, ill just never have to use it. and do not go by the cfm rating, that dont mean shit, its what micron it goes down to. 15 is what i was looking for
i would say wasting money is not good, but also do not buy cheap shit. if you have to replace that pump a few times, and it costs you $20 in gas and 2 hours of drive time, that for sure aint free.
i do not own a vacuum oven because i dont make much oil anymore, and i did not want a used one, as i would not trust the chemicals used before hand. Im not going to spend thousands on something alot of people are have trouble with the low temp settings. if you are doing thin film purges, then you do not need heat from the bottom and top.
you said you wouldnt justify me with a response, but you did anyways.

anyone that buys and uses alot of tools knows the quality harbor freight provides.

15 micron is waaaaay lower than any one would ever need for purging bho, 10,000 micron is in the proper range from what I have been reading and from what my taste buds have been telling me.

On a side note, I love harbor freight. Would never order from them but it's tits having one near.
 

midwestHIGHS

Member
Veteran
I realize water will boil at room temperature in a full vacuum. That's the main reason to use a vacuum, to lower the boiling point of water to lower than that of terpenes. The other reason being to protect the terpenes from oxidizing.


Negative pressure doesn't just lower the boiling points of water and not terpenes, all boiling points are lowerd under vacuum.
 

Kushed_

Member
Right on. The water boiling temperatures was for Kushed, you can confirm if your cheap gauge is relatively accurate (within 1hg) for cheap.


My point is you are not getting what you think you are getting.

If you want to know what China smells like, visit HFT. I am surprised they don't have to have special ventilation systems to keep employees from getting sick!
 

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