PURE THC for three bucks a gram? By D Gold

Gray Wolf · Jun 29, 2020

Check out Dave Gold’s latest article on isomerizing CBD into Delta 8 and 9 THC.

https://graywolfslair.com/index.php...-d-gold/4-6-3-pure-thc-for-three-bucks-a-gram

Gry · Jun 29, 2020

Going to have to get a new traffic light bulb for the iso2!

Cvh · Jun 29, 2020

I have always wondered why nobody hasn't commercialised this proces.
How long is this been publicly know? 50 years?

flylowgethigh · Jun 29, 2020

In his book he describes making tinctures and soaking buds in them, adding to the bud potency. If this syn-T is dis-solvable in Etoh, you could probably enhance $200/lb organic hemp flower pretty nicely with this stuff, and still have full spectrum. 15% of 454 gr is 68gr x $3 = a little over $200/lb, plus the initial $200 for the hemp, and that is cheap dope.

low_and_slow · Jun 29, 2020

flylowgethigh said:
In his book he describes making tinctures and soaking buds in them, adding to the bud potency. If this syn-T is dis-solvable in Etoh, you could probably enhance $200/lb organic hemp flower pretty nicely with this stuff, and still have full spectrum. 15% of 454 gr is 68gr x $3 = a little over $200/lb, plus the initial $200 for the hemp, and that is cheap dope.

This sounds like how Altria would approach the topic...

MindEater · Jun 29, 2020

What about flavornoids, how's much per gram.. I want my isomerican oil to taste good

AgentPothead · Jun 29, 2020

That's amazing if it really is 1:1 ratio. Seems better to grow high CBD hemp and turn it into THC.

Sunshineinabag · Jun 29, 2020

I wanna try this

troutman · Jun 29, 2020

p-TolueneSulfonic Acid is better than sulfuric acid for isomerization. :tiphat:

Alcohol and sulfuric acid isomerizes only 50-60% of CBD to THC; p-TolueneSulfonic Acid (p-TSA) in petroleum ether or other light, non-polar solvent will convert 90% of CBD to THC upon refluxing 1 hour at 130° F.

https://www.hempbasics.com/hhusb/hh6thc.htm

I might make some one day. I already purified, distilled and dried Toluene. Simple sulfonation reaction around 50C and sulfuric acid will convert the Toluene into p-TolueneSulfonic Acid.

At least two persons on YouTube have prepared it. Here's one of them now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBOvq6Lr1Zk

Don't try this unless you understand Chemistry. :huggg:

mexweed · Jun 30, 2020

makes it sound like a lot of work for a subpar product

Big M · Jun 30, 2020

From what I gather, p-tosic acid is some pretty nasty stuff to work with outside of a legit lab. That would be an isomerization best done by a well trained chemist. It does seem to give a more complete conversion than most other methods. There are guys getting 98-99% pure d8 using hcl, and it's safer to work with. Others are refluxing cbd isolate in a boiling flask with T-5 or T-41, bUT getting less-pure conversions in the 60-80% range.

There's also the question of what are the unknowns in the final product. If your delta 8 is only 80% pure, what is the other 20? I haven't heard of many of the non target compounds other than delta 10 thc being identified yet. Hard to say what is being produced for sure. Until we can identify the non target compounds, we can't be sure the end product is completely safe. Best to produce or ingest a product with purity of 98% or better to be safest.

Delta 8 is amazing for pain relief in my experience. It also gives a good buzz for the work day. Gives much stronger munchies than delta 9. Works really well in tinctures and edibles. It seems to be about half as potent, give or take a little. Good stuff. I hope we get to play with it for a while before they close up the loophole.

G.O. Joe · Jul 1, 2020

troutman said:
Simple sulfonation reaction around 50C and sulfuric acid will convert the Toluene into p-TolueneSulfonic Acid.

At least two persons on YouTube have prepared it.

50C sounds too simple, or like it would take a few days. Chemistry videos and channels on youtube have a long history of being flagged and deleted.

Big M said:
From what I gather, p-tosic acid is some pretty nasty stuff to work with outside of a legit lab.

You wouldn't want it in your eyes, but otherwise it's a crystalline solid and not a big deal, because hopefully you're not going to wash yourself with it, and tiny amounts are used anyways.

Big M said:
That would be an isomerization best done by a well trained chemist.

There are guys getting 98-99% pure d8 using hcl, and it's safer to work with.

A well trained chemist might be depressed at the prospect of doing such basic, menial work, and doubt these claims.

Riamba · Jul 1, 2020

Thanks for the info!

BillFarthing · Jul 2, 2020

This may be disruptive to the entire cannabis extract industry:

1:1 CBD isolate to DI water by volume. 10% citric acid by weight to isolate. 12 hour reflux.

The temperature is going to be the boiling point of water at your altitude.

This yeilds 40-50% Delta-9 THC, 40-50% Delta-8 THC after being run through a short path.

Big M · Jul 2, 2020

Thanks for setting me straight G.O. Joe. I'm no chemist. I guess I meant that these reactions shouldn't be approached lightly, not that one would need to be a highly educated advanced chemist. It may not be a difficult reaction and clean up, but it probably wouldn't be difficult to screw up either. There are many unknowns created during the isomerization, especially if starting from anything other than high purity cbd isolate. Are the unknowns safe for eating or smoking? Hard to say when they are unknown. That being said, I feel comfortable using delta 8 produced by a competent person using good methodology and quality ingredients.

G.O. Joe · Jul 3, 2020

I'm not sure that the competent need apply within the industry either, or that anyone is looking at anything but the CBD, d8 and d9 content. The tosic method is proven and gives pure d8 when done correctly, and it's much easier to botch the HCl isomerization, which gives mostly d9 when done correctly. When the first scientific human trials of THC and related substances was done - with THC from hemp, an isomer, and 2 synthetic THC's - it was the tosic method which was selected over many others to produce the isomer now known to be d8. Heating with citric acid or solid insoluble substances to a negative Beam test can probably go wrong somehow too.

troutman · Jul 3, 2020

G.O. Joe said:
50C sounds too simple, or like it would take a few days. Chemistry videos and channels on youtube have a long history of being flagged and deleted.

Here's a patent and they use at most the temperature of refluxing Toluene which is 110.6 °C. :tiphat:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2362612A/en

It can occur at even lower than 50°C.

The isomer distribution for the homogeneous sulphonation of toluene at 25.0° in 82.3 ± 0.3 wt?% aqueous sulphuric acid has been determined by the inverse isotope dilution method as 65.1% para . 2.9% meta and 32.0% ortho.

Aromatic sulphonation II: Orientation in the sulphonation of toluene

G.O. Joe · Jul 3, 2020

troutman said:
It can occur at even lower than 50°C.

Can occur is a little vague. They use 255 g of sulfuric acid on 25 mg of toluene, which wasn't enough. After sulphonation for 4.0 hours the reaction was stopped by extracting the unconverted toluene with cyclohexane.

A competent chemist without the Dean-Stark glass of Vogel, etc. could easily follow the directions here.

Big M · Jul 4, 2020

G.O. Joe, I don't understand your tone in your replies. I feel like you are attempting to make me look foolish or something of that nature. I didn't come here to start any arguments, and hope I am not offending you with my responses.

If someone is trying to make d8 from cbd they damn well better be trying to figure out what is in their final product if it isn't pure d8. Would you really want to risk your health ingesting or smoking unknown byproducts? Do you think if someone gets sick or dies from consuming delta 8 with unknown byproducts that it's ok? My point in the first place was that we need to be safe about how we move forward. Your comments about not needing a competent chemist to make things to be consumed by others is immature. Do you want a bunch of shake and bake meth heads making your meds? Come on dude, grow up. This is a critical point in the drive towards legalization and freedom of use. Please don't advocate anything that could be irresponsible or dangerous.

G.O. Joe · Jul 4, 2020

Big M said:
G.O. Joe, I don't understand your tone in your replies. I feel like you are attempting to make me look foolish or something of that nature. I didn't come here to start any arguments, and hope I am not offending you with my responses.

This stuff is in my freezer, having made it from the directions in that book, it's been used on both CBD and THC dominant extracts with TLC analysis, and therefore I'm not allowed to say it's easy - for organic chemistry - and not scary? Or that the original chemistry literature says HCl is particularly touchy, for good reason? Nothing unusual about me talking isomerization, and assigning more importance to getting the facts straight than being sheep or shepherd.

Big M said:
Do you think if someone gets sick or dies from consuming delta 8 with unknown byproducts that it's ok? My point in the first place was that we need to be safe about how we move forward. Your comments about not needing a competent chemist to make things to be consumed by others is immature.

Not here to start arguments with the straw man you brought eh.

PURE THC for three bucks a gram? By D Gold

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

Well-known member

Well-known member

Non-growing Lurker

Member

Member

Just this guy, ya know?

Active member

Seed Whore

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Active member

Member

Well-known member

Seed Whore

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member