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Growroom design with “keeping a few mothers (and dads?) around” in mind...

White Beard

Active member
I can’t look at strains or growlogs or seed releases without wanting to grow them out and explore them, and that always leads to me facing hypothetical questions like ‘how on earth would I make sense out of that?’

Say I had three cut-only moms: just shove them all in the same tent? How does th at work long-term? Constant topping? Clone the hell out of them? It seems to me that’s pretty haphazard as a way of working with them ongoing.

I know there are creative, capable, well-skilled and well-organized folks here with more plants than I’ve ever seen. I’m sure this has been looked at hard, and I hope to hear growers and breeders talk about how growroom design and managing both breeding and production stock have evolved for them over the years and the seasons.

I am what you might call a long-term beginner: started sucking up every crumb of info, good and bad, back in the 60s, and have refreshed myself about every five years since then (it takes a year or two to ge back up to speed each time), but now things are coming together for the first time, and vision is my only limit so I want to think big from the start.

An example of this is that I know I will want to keep at least some males, and that has led me to consider permanent boxes with real ports, fittings, filters, etc. This of course causes me to consider making them as independent as possible, which causes me to think about lighting options for long-term plant maintenance, and wheels for easy relocation...just to name a few.

Another example is lighting: I’ve narrowed lighting down to CMH options, and I know that there were ballasts switchable from 315 to 210, and I know that many ballasts are dimmable, so I wonder how any of that might serve keeping a plant healthy and alive . I also wonder if CFL might provide better “storage conditions”.

And there are research questions: will cannabis eventually become senescent and simply fail? Is there a light level/schedule that will cause cannabis to become dormant? Will using dimmable ballasts allow mimicry of seasonal variation, and will that result in an improved result? Will dimming allow affect growth rate without adverse other effects?

So please, join in, I can use the reality check and the fresh ideas!
 
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Mengsk

Active member
This is probably lower level than what you're looking for but I would have 2-3 rooms or tents, areas. Vegetative and flower, and mothers (and dads). Now that could become 4-5 rooms but making individual plant cabinets sounds costly.

The time it takes for a mother plant to regenerate plus rooting cuttings should be less than flowering time. So mother plants can remain in high light, or low light, or stasis, as long as they don't die, however ideal conditions will still give the best growth. You can keep the mother plants all the same size or renew them as often as you wish. Light timing (24/0 or 18/6 vs 12/12 or 11/13) is one reason to separate plants. Pollen and size or distance from lights is another. Trays of cuttings can capture light output patterns more quickly (efficiently) than larger plants spaced further apart. Designing a cabinet for each plant may prove beneficial in the long run or in theory. Practically speaking, would setting up a cookie cutter standard grow with what is already available be easier or quicker? Many good questions.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
1 room for mothers/fathers/cloning purposes.
1 or more rooms for flowering.
That's all it really takes.
Moms/Dads do not have to be huge but their health needs to be maintained.
There is a thread at the MNS forum that details how one could keep hundreds of potential mothers/fathers in a relatively small space.


PM incoming
 

White Beard

Active member
Thanks very much for that! It is a completely different approach, but I like it.

I got the idea on separate 30x30 grows from hearing Rives talk about his results from a tent that size with a single 315 CMH. This skips around tent size and number of lights for space, because if I could equal his results, that would be a years personal stash for me and mine.

By adding a duplicate, I could practice SOG, I could learn LST and manifolding and fluxing in individual self-contained pods without disturbing anything else going on. And so on...

I certainly will start off with tents, I do think that for the long term, boxes will be worth the effort, but nothing is set in stone. Ultimately they will be cheaper, and I’ll have the time while I build the growroom.

Estimating 30’ wide by 40’ long, it should be able to handle ~15 permanent 30x30 units, with plenty of room for tents of various sizes in addition to other work areas. Fifteen feels like a lot to me, but I can easily imagine a situation in which I had multiple plants I wanted to hang onto for the long haul, as well as experiments going out outside ‘regular production’. I have no intention of trying to fill the whole thing up with such contraptions, I just want to build it big enough while I still have the strength to do so.

Part growroom, part workshop, part research facility....
 

White Beard

Active member
The time it takes for a mother plant to regenerate plus rooting cuttings should be less than flowering time. So mother plants can remain in high light, or low light, or stasis, as long as they don't die, however ideal conditions will still give the best growth. You can keep the mother plants all the same size or renew them as often as you wish. Light timing (24/0 or 18/6 vs 12/12 or 11/13) is one reason to separate plants. Pollen and size or distance from lights is another. Trays of cuttings can capture light output patterns more quickly (efficiently) than larger plants spaced further apart. Designing a cabinet for each plant may prove beneficial in the long run or in theory. Practically speaking, would setting up a cookie cutter standard grow with what is already available be easier or quicker? Many good questions.
Great stuff, thanks!

If you have experiences with perpetuating mothers under low light, I would love to hear about them. Some of the research I have in mind involves light levels centrally.

I’ve been reading about SOG since Jorge hit High Times with it, so getting some experience in that is definitely on my menu.

Your point about a standard cookie-cutter solution constructed from what’s available is the core of my plan. I could go more light and bigger tent, but I need growing experience, and I feel like running 3 ‘singles’ would teach me more quicker than a bigger tent and more light and a bunch of plants stuffed in.
 

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
Veteran
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dank.Frank
 

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Flower room for 8 in 5 gallon pots or soil bed, under 2 x 315. Veg has room for a steel rack so, 4' x 18" x 7' tall. Room for 3 shelves of plants under t-8 or t-5. That can house 6 mothers, 18 maturing plants, and clone / seed starting space for 50+. Veg room also has 20" x 4' drying space that is double tier. Veg acts as a lung room. Everything gets HEPA filtered and carbon filtered during air exchanges.

Exterior is wrapped in an IR-blocking 6mil plastic. Interior filled with Roxul Fire/Sound "proof" insulation.

Entire set up is roughly 8' x 6'. So I suggest something along those lines, for small growers. I'm more of a visual learner. :joint:



dank.Frank
 
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White Beard

Active member
Damn, Frank, I don’t think this house is as solidly built as your room there!

Thanks, these will be extremely handy.

So, help me orient: veg is 6x6’, flower is 2x6’? And I’m new to the idea of a lung room...
 

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
Veteran
External: 5' 7.5" wide x 7' 5" long. Internal: Flower - 28" x 60.5" Veg: 50.5" x 60.5" 2x4 framing.

The base in the first two pictures is 35" x 7' 5". That just gave the interior of the flower room the space it needed, once walls were up. The veg could be bigger without any issue as it's just attached more or less.

Hope that helps give some perspective. As a side note, I notice there are two different layouts pictured. One shows a recessed sliding door for the veg --> flower room. The other shows a doorway. I did not go with a sliding door setup. Unnecessarily complicated.

I have a 6" Vortex at the top of the flower room that exhausts the air into the veg room. It pushes air through a carbon filter. There are dark room louvers in the door to the flower room that allow air to re-enter flower. Air comes in low and exists high. There is a HEPA filter on the intake of the 6" Votex. Fresh air is brought in passively as it mixes in the veg area. The flower room has negative pressure so all air is drawn that direction.



dank.Frank
 

White Beard

Active member
I’m signed up for your DaNK thread, you have my attention! Like yer sig, too.

As I intimated earlier, I will be constructing the building myself. It will be a growroom/shed and temporary residence for one, hence the 30’x40’ footprint. I really can do anything I want with it, including establishing a permanent harem (of plants, thanks).

First major re-think: given the low price some are offering on DE 630s, it will make more financial sense to go with one as a first light, and a 60x60” tent as a first space (only lighting half the space == 52w/soft). Considering the overall overhead of beginning to build and beginning to grow, the difference between the setups is a few dollars, even for an old codger-in-training like me.

So I’m trying to be as expansive on this as makes sense without having room for extra expense. Which is why CMH, and why coco in fabric pots, and why starting smart is better than starting small.

My first purpose is to have more medicine than I can afford, my second purpose is to eliminate the acquisition of medicine from the monthly budget, my third purpose is to eliminate the cost of my medicine, my fourth purpose is new teeth.

My overall purpose is a lifetime of use, interest in, and study of cannabis, and a strong desire to dive deep, and see what’s in there.... maybe surprising to many, but I don’t know that I’ve ever smoked a haze, or a Kush - OG or otherwise, or even if I’ve ever smoked a bud that hadn’t been tumbled to infinity and beyond before I got it.

After a lifetime of preparation and study, I can’t wait to see what all the shouting (so to speak) is all about.

(off to read more about bonsai harems...)

This would all be so much more fun if I could eat....
 
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Guy Brush

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Great stuff, thanks!

If you have experiences with perpetuating mothers under low light, I would love to hear about them. Some of the research I have in mind involves light levels centrally.

I’ve been reading about SOG since Jorge hit High Times with it, so getting some experience in that is definitely on my menu.

Your point about a standard cookie-cutter solution constructed from what’s available is the core of my plan. I could go more light and bigger tent, but I need growing experience, and I feel like running 3 ‘singles’ would teach me more quicker than a bigger tent and more light and a bunch of plants stuffed in.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=31919
 

White Beard

Active member
Terrific link, Guy!

I knew there had to be a way, I knew it...MJPassion knew it too...brilliant stuff...game-changing....
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
I have a tiny 6x6 greenhouse i call the library. It's basically a shed with polycarbonate panels. Has a single 315w cmh and 14w of led for just keeping plants "awake". It's really for storing genetics that i am not running much of. When i want to run something, i take some cuts for production moms, and grow them in a bigger space.
 

White Beard

Active member
CrushnYuba - what’s your setup in there?

Seems you could keep 324 4” pots in there without much sweat, figuring 6 shelves 5’x1’ and 2 shelves 3’x1’ (36 sqft x 9 4” pots). That’s stunning! Sounds like all the room one would need for a real bonsai harim, with stud service, only 36 board feet.

I’m beginning to understand how SOG became so popular
 
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CrushnYuba

Well-known member
They are square 6x6" x 8" tall pots. I used 6" pots so i could put 6" spaced drip line over the pots to water. And larger pots dont need the roots messed with as frequently.

The new one is 6x8 x 6' tall. There is a 2 ft walkway down the middle with 2 3x6' benches on each side of the walkway. The space under the benches are insulated from the greenhouse so the space doesn't need to be heated. The propane tanks, and other storage will sit under There and will be accessible from outside oh the gh.

I think it's important to have natural light to keep moms vigorous. Shantibaba said he kept moms vigorous for 25 years by bringing genetics outside in the summer to reinvigorate them. I think 315s produce much healthier growth then t5. I really don't like t5s.
 

zif

Well-known member
Veteran
If you like variety but are working within a plant-count limited situation, I highly recommend learning to graft.

A single mother can easily support a dozen varieties in a very small space, or many dozen if you are not space limited. All other considerations are the same (to bonsai or not to bonsai, lighting, plant health, etc...).

A few places (I see you, Canada!) are going with the 4 plant count. That would drive me nuts, if it meant holding only a couple of clones!
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
4" square pots are not big enough for bonsai moms. A clone rooted in a plug will outgrow a 4x4 in a few days if it's growing vigorously. And it's impossible to keep the plants canopy to 4" square the matter how much you train
 

White Beard

Active member
Okay. I did see a thread on another site where mothers were cut down to 2”x2” pots, so I thought I was being generous w/ 4” as the 2” seemed way too small.... IIRC Shantibaba was the author, but I could easily be wrong. @ 6/sqft, you’ll have still over 200, which seems mighty respectable to me.

My plant-count allowed is zero, so....

Since I’m starting from total scratch: if you could retrofit your space for something you didn’t plan for, what would it be?
 
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