TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
Lol
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What is with all the hermie seeds these days?
- Thread starter GrowbagUK
- Start date
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Repost from 5/22/2018:
Nothing wrong with feminized seeds, they are made using STS (Silver Thiosulfate) or CS (colloidal silver) which involves spraying to temporarily make female plants produce male parts through hormonal change. It is not stressful to the plant in any way and the plant goes back to being all female when you stop using the silver spray, it only affects the branches that are sprayed as well not the whole plant, it does not cause the offspring to be hermaphrodite as it is a hormonal change.
Regular male x female seeds are just as likely to be hermaphrodite as feminized seeds, its an inherited trait from the parent plants. Through multiple generations of selfing negative effects will surface because of the lack of genetic diversity, outcrossing should not be a problem.
Nothing wrong with feminized seeds, they are made using STS (Silver Thiosulfate) or CS (colloidal silver) which involves spraying to temporarily make female plants produce male parts through hormonal change. It is not stressful to the plant in any way and the plant goes back to being all female when you stop using the silver spray, it only affects the branches that are sprayed as well not the whole plant, it does not cause the offspring to be hermaphrodite as it is a hormonal change.
Regular male x female seeds are just as likely to be hermaphrodite as feminized seeds, its an inherited trait from the parent plants. Through multiple generations of selfing negative effects will surface because of the lack of genetic diversity, outcrossing should not be a problem.
bit of a no brainer..
you stress 1 generation to produce fem seeds and then hermies show up in the next generation.. its called the ripple effect
fem seeds were good in the 80s/90s when cannabis was illegal and cash croppers wanted female seeds because they didnt have the space or time to pheno hunt so this spawned a craze and loads of breeders jumped on it and started cashing in on the feminized seed business not that i would calling stressing females to produce seeds as breeding its more of a hack job...
ive had my fair share of hermie seeds from fems and ill never grow fem seeds again.. any breeder worth their salt will only work with reg seeds and stress their best female for the masses whilst keeping their prized ladies locked away..
not all breeders adopt this policy but reg seeds are slowly dissapearing and most seed companies are only offering fems with a handfull of reg seeds to choose from
sad but true...
you stress 1 generation to produce fem seeds and then hermies show up in the next generation.. its called the ripple effect
fem seeds were good in the 80s/90s when cannabis was illegal and cash croppers wanted female seeds because they didnt have the space or time to pheno hunt so this spawned a craze and loads of breeders jumped on it and started cashing in on the feminized seed business not that i would calling stressing females to produce seeds as breeding its more of a hack job...
ive had my fair share of hermie seeds from fems and ill never grow fem seeds again.. any breeder worth their salt will only work with reg seeds and stress their best female for the masses whilst keeping their prized ladies locked away..
not all breeders adopt this policy but reg seeds are slowly dissapearing and most seed companies are only offering fems with a handfull of reg seeds to choose from
sad but true...
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
If it's a natural stress, like end of life, you get fem pollen. No hermie.
I'm starting to learn a lot of authentic landraces hermi under our natural pacific northwest photoperiod (outdoors), but some report the same strain doesn't hermi under their "natural" location of origin. Perhaps our different yet natural photoperiod is one of many stress factors for these landraces, and individuals sensitive to "photoperiodic stress" that subsequently hermi as a result can be bred out over time.
Oregonism
Active member
Just a side note, GG4 is also a nanner produced strain but onto something else, so not an S1. Im sure most are aware, just putting it out there for the layman...
That is breeder topic never talked about, rodelized pollen onto other donors. In practice it probably produces a fair amount of shit, but its an interesting concept when looking at the production of unknown strains like OG, Sour D, Cookies and their progeny.
Yes and yes.
In fact, I even think that clones will adapt over repeated plantings as well. I have one mystery girl that I have kept for around a decade now and she never nanners at all with cuts, whereas the first few years were touch and go, in and out. Never really changed grow techs either, very minimal, faux organic,lol.
insomniac_AU
Active member
I've grown many strains hydroponically basically the same way now for 24 years and I have only ever had plants hermie twice in that time. The first time was the first strain I ever grew when I was young Shiva Shanti which I got as a clone from a friend. I grew it for a couple of years then it suddenly mutated and started producing hermie flowers. I was young and didn't really know what I was doing then so it could have been a range of different causes but as mentioned the recessive traits were inherited. This wasn't from a feminised seed either.
The other one was about 8 years ago and was Barbara Bud from HoGG. It's a beautiful strain but I think it's herm tendencies are inherited from the Shiskaberry in it. I will still grow it again one day though. It's refreshingly different from most things out there, still have seeds.
The other one was about 8 years ago and was Barbara Bud from HoGG. It's a beautiful strain but I think it's herm tendencies are inherited from the Shiskaberry in it. I will still grow it again one day though. It's refreshingly different from most things out there, still have seeds.
'Boogieman'
Well-known member
I have had a few strains throw bananas late in bloom but no seeds ever came of it.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Meizzwang and Oregonism good additions on photoperiod stress. in reference to strains changing, its called Epigenetic change. Environment affects expression from same Genotype (DNA), clones from same mother can express differently or change over time in different environments/grow styles. For example if a strain has been bred and adapted/maintained indoors under HPS for years it seems understandable it might stress changing lighting and environment after getting comfortable.
From Royal Queen Seeds:
GENOTYPE, ENVIRONMENT, PHENOTYPE
Every living organism is the result of evolution that works by the same basic principle. The genotype or genetic code carries all the genetic information regarding growth, appearance, and all the characteristics we can later observe.
It’s crucial to understand that a genotype or genetic code is not something that is set in stone but rather defines a certain range of possibilities. It mainly depends on the environment the organism lives in what specific bits and pieces of the genotype will be activated.
The interaction between genotype and environment results in a phenotype, meaning the physical expression of certain genes the environment triggered.
genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype and environment interactions (GE) = phenotype (P)
QUICK EXAMPLE: PURPLE STRAINS
Let’s examine a cannabis related example to get a better idea. You purchase seeds from a reputable breeder and intend to grow a purple strain.
Instead of growing all plants in your indoor grow tent, you’ll decide on moving half of your plants outdoors. Besides the fact that no plant seems to be identical to one another, you’ll notice that the plants in your outdoor garden are much richer in purple colours compared to the ones in your indoor grow tent.
Although the genotype carries the information to produce purple hues, it’s the environment, and in this particular case, the temperatures of the environment, that allow two different physical expressions (phenotypes) from seemingly the same genetic code (genotype).
if you’re aiming for maximum efficiency and consistency, your best option is to select a mother plant to take clones from. These clones copy the genotype of the mother plant 1:1 and you’ll continuously end up with the same phenotype assuming a constant environment.
Let’s say you grow one of these identical clones using a hydro set-up, and one in organic soil. This varying environment might result in different phenotypes of the same genotype.
End quote from Royal Queen Seeds
From Royal Queen Seeds:
GENOTYPE, ENVIRONMENT, PHENOTYPE
Every living organism is the result of evolution that works by the same basic principle. The genotype or genetic code carries all the genetic information regarding growth, appearance, and all the characteristics we can later observe.
It’s crucial to understand that a genotype or genetic code is not something that is set in stone but rather defines a certain range of possibilities. It mainly depends on the environment the organism lives in what specific bits and pieces of the genotype will be activated.
The interaction between genotype and environment results in a phenotype, meaning the physical expression of certain genes the environment triggered.
genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype and environment interactions (GE) = phenotype (P)
QUICK EXAMPLE: PURPLE STRAINS
Let’s examine a cannabis related example to get a better idea. You purchase seeds from a reputable breeder and intend to grow a purple strain.
Instead of growing all plants in your indoor grow tent, you’ll decide on moving half of your plants outdoors. Besides the fact that no plant seems to be identical to one another, you’ll notice that the plants in your outdoor garden are much richer in purple colours compared to the ones in your indoor grow tent.
Although the genotype carries the information to produce purple hues, it’s the environment, and in this particular case, the temperatures of the environment, that allow two different physical expressions (phenotypes) from seemingly the same genetic code (genotype).
if you’re aiming for maximum efficiency and consistency, your best option is to select a mother plant to take clones from. These clones copy the genotype of the mother plant 1:1 and you’ll continuously end up with the same phenotype assuming a constant environment.
Let’s say you grow one of these identical clones using a hydro set-up, and one in organic soil. This varying environment might result in different phenotypes of the same genotype.
End quote from Royal Queen Seeds
Oregonism
Active member
Is it possible to completely segregate female/male genes awayfrom each other, because sometimes that is the notion I get when people talk of hermaphroditic plants, but this would be an evolutionary first!
Another thing is that certain types werent ever intended for the drug pool, but reside there anyhow....Ram described male populations that could produce pistillate flowers in the absence of females, but probably hermaphrodotic flowers as well and could be considered andromonoecious to polygamous, and it is also considered extremely rare.
Are we overlooking monoecious species contibutions to the drug pool, especially when describing hermie plants, which doesnt fit the description botanically.
I have seen hundreds of plants sprout "male" gear on female plants but on separate nodes away from a female flower. This would be called hermie all day in laymans terms, but it fits the description of being monoecious. I have seen a handful of plants that showed a site or two with staminate and pistillate parts on the Same node, its only anecdotal observation, but falls into the less than 1% of all cannabis being from an actual hermaphroditic population, so it may have some merit.
Another thing is that certain types werent ever intended for the drug pool, but reside there anyhow....Ram described male populations that could produce pistillate flowers in the absence of females, but probably hermaphrodotic flowers as well and could be considered andromonoecious to polygamous, and it is also considered extremely rare.
Are we overlooking monoecious species contibutions to the drug pool, especially when describing hermie plants, which doesnt fit the description botanically.
I have seen hundreds of plants sprout "male" gear on female plants but on separate nodes away from a female flower. This would be called hermie all day in laymans terms, but it fits the description of being monoecious. I have seen a handful of plants that showed a site or two with staminate and pistillate parts on the Same node, its only anecdotal observation, but falls into the less than 1% of all cannabis being from an actual hermaphroditic population, so it may have some merit.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
You are correct if the plants are growing different sexual organs at separate nodes/flowers it would be monoecious and not hermaphroditic meaning male and female parts on the same node/flower. A quick search suggests cannabis can be dioecious, monoecious or hermaphroditic, but the terminology has all been combined to just "hermie". I wonder if this is the difference between natural intersex expression and stress induced? Many plants produce pollen sacks hermaphroditicly through rodelization stress after the harvest window, leaving monoecious expression natural during plant life.
Oregonism
Active member
I want to reiterate that I dont negatively look on the term "hermie", its in the community, but you can see how it describes a variety of situations not just one specific incidence....Has anyone done a rodelized line and tried to STS the same line to compare?
Great comment on the monecious cycle with natural past harvest rodelization, environmental influence should be noted there too...or is it in the genotype?
hi.
Sam Skunkman has stated about selecting parent-plants that you should flower your plants till they naturally start to die to find the plants that do not grow any intersex traits.
...so apparently not every plant will show intersex traits when flowered a long, long time.
Sorry i don't have the quote/link at hand and i can't be bothered to find it atm. He wrote it here on ICMag.
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
Good advice. But we're not talking about bananas here. I think there's a difference. I found it on one plant out of 30. It's an extremely inefficient way to get fem pollen, but from what I've read, it's the safest.
so top drawer its sittin on the counter
funkyhorse
Well-known member
If you got a jar of Fire on the counter break that shit up, should find one. I buy up all the Fire around here just trying to find a special one i lost, could CS a clone but i leave it to chance
I'm about to find that out. The Deep Chunk that went intersex on me. Normally it wouldn't become intersex. But it was forced on it due to a light leak. So will the resulting seeds produce intersex plants ? Gonna find out real soon.
